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      08-04-2008, 10:21 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by AW325xi View Post
The Audi's are gorgeous car for sure. They're still weight biased to the front and will have an issue with balance.
Agreed.

I thought this was something that the B8 was supposed to address? Audis have always had an issue front heaviness, and I thought that moving the engine back would alleviate the uneven weight distribution.

Need clarification on the reports I have been reading. Which one is correct?

55.5% of the weight now resides over the front wheels. WTF
OR
The weight distribution of the new B8 is 55.5% front/44.5 rear
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      08-04-2008, 12:42 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by herbz View Post
reasons why BMW is better than Audi:

1) Audi still makes heavier cars than comparable BMW models (see RS4 vs. E46 M3, 335i vs. S5, etc).
2) Audi's cars are still nose heavy compared to BMW's balanced weight distribution.
3) Audi's typically use V6s, V8's, while BMW is world renowned for its silky smooth I6 which now comes as naturally aspirated or twin turbocharged.
4) Audi is still owned by VW, and cheap VW's are now getting interior and exterior parts straight off Audi's which cost twice as much. Think your cool LED headlights on your $60k S5 are exclusive? Wait 'till they are on every Passat and Jetta driving around town. BMW is BMW, not anything else.
5) I'd go on a limb and say that BMW makes a better suspension, uses a better gearbox, typically has a better engine than any comparible Audi model.
6) Audi STILL makes FWD cars.... in fact that is their volume seller. did BMW ever make a FWD car? Don't think so.

Reasons why Audi is better than BMW:
1) Better interior
2) Better exterior
3) All wheel drive

That's really all I can think of.
All good points, except when we get to your last 3 reasons. IMO, BMW has a better interior, exterior and BMW's RWD is way better then Audi's RWD.
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      08-04-2008, 08:13 PM   #91
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That's the one - he did Audi interiors I am sure... ready to be prooved wrong and flamed to a crisp through
I don't believe he did(?) I once read a story that reported he was actually responsible for the "Banglebutt" and that it has been erroneously attributed to Bangle himself.

26 September 2001 - Designworks/USA, the California-based design studio of the BMW Group, announced today that automotive design department director Adrian van Hooydonk has been named President of Designworks/USA. Charged with day-to-day operation and direction of the studio, he will report directly to Christopher E. Bangle, Director of Design BMW Group.

During his tenure with the company, the 37-year-old Netherlands-born van Hooydonk was responsible for the design of the exterior of the Mini ACV30 concept car shown in Monte Carlo in 1997 and at the Museum of Modern Art in 1999; the exterior of the BMW Z9 Gran Turismo shown in Frankfurt in 1999; and the exterior design of numerous upcoming BMW models.

Prior to his employment with BMW AG in 1992, he worked as an industrial designer for General Electric Plastics Europe, Bergen op Zoom, Holland, and Depro Product Design in Guastalla, Italy. Van Hooydonk earned a degree in industrial design from Delft Polytechnic University in Delft, Holland, and a degree in automotive design from Art Center Europe in Vevey, Switzerland.

Designworks/USA is a strategic design consultancy and member of the BMW Group, based in Newbury Park, California. Designworks was founded in 1972 by internationally acclaimed designer Charles Pelly and acquired by the German automaker BMW in 1995. The company specializes in the areas of automotive, transport and industrial design, and advanced communications.

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      08-04-2008, 11:31 PM   #92
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This thread makes me ashamed I own a BMW... You guys should
just go out and take a deep breath...
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      08-05-2008, 12:14 AM   #93
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I have read similar, that the A4 now have a 55.5%f vs 44.5%r balance. It's still not as good as BMW's norm but when SportAuto can get an A43.2Quattro (265hp) to lap Hockenheim quicker than BMW's 335i you have to rethink the opinion that it's weight balance is hindering the car's ability to handle.

so lets read those points once more with my comments in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbz
reasons why BMW is better than Audi:

1) Audi still makes heavier cars than comparable BMW models (see RS4 vs. E46 M3, 335i vs. S5, etc). Heavier and slower in acceleration but still quicker in lap time.
2) Audi's cars are still nose heavy compared to BMW's balanced weight distribution. Doesn't seem to affect the handling.
3) Audi's typically use V6s, V8's, while BMW is world renowned for its silky smooth I6 which now comes as naturally aspirated or twin turbocharged. Agreed, BMW's I6 is their best engine for smoothness.
4) Audi is still owned by VW, and cheap VW's are now getting interior and exterior parts straight off Audi's which cost twice as much. Think your cool LED headlights on your $60k S5 are exclusive? Wait 'till they are on every Passat and Jetta driving around town. BMW is BMW, not anything else. The only things shared are switch gear and some engine/gearbox combos.
5) I'd go on a limb and say that BMW makes a better suspension, uses a better gearbox, typically has a better engine than any comparible Audi model.I think that would be very hard to prove either way.
6) Audi STILL makes FWD cars.... in fact that is their volume seller. did BMW ever make a FWD car? Don't think so.There is nothing wrong with FWD, you just get your fun a different way to that of RWD. Both have plus and minus points.

Reasons why Audi is better than BMW:
1) Better interior Agreed, the quality of the materials and look are the main plus points.
2) Better exterior I don't think the new A4 is better looking but in general I would agree with this, but such things are in the eye of the beholder.
3) All wheel drive Has a real benefit in winter and in the wet, plus can aid confidence in lesser drivers, minus points are worse economy and more tyres wear, plus not the same steering feel.

That's really all I can think of.
Both are good cars, only different in their approach.
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      08-05-2008, 01:18 AM   #94
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Now if only somebody could combine the two....
I think it's called the M3
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      08-05-2008, 02:13 AM   #95
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I think it's called the M3
+1.
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      08-05-2008, 09:12 AM   #96
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Looks wise and interior wise YES
Overall driving fell NO
Just my opinion. They better do something soon though as they cant give away the current a3/a4/a6/a8 cars. It is a shame but noone wants these. People like the A5/S5 but they dont make a lot at all so it keeps the supplu low. I wish my BMW looked like the audi and I am not afraid to admit that. But looks are secondary to me. I prefer how a car drives first. My 06 330i (espically sport with 162's) looks better than the current A-4 IMO but not as good as the new one.

Audi is a nice car and the quattro is nice but it snowed ONCE last year here in NJ so the need for AWD is SOOOOOO overhyped IMO. I prefer RWD with sport. I hope they sell some more cars to get out of this rutt their in. I used to sell them and feel bad for the guys I used to work with that got stuck having to sell them instead of coming over to out new BMW store.
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      08-05-2008, 09:46 AM   #97
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I really think u cant compare the two...I like the interior of A4 that looks so good , I like the S5 , A6 , A8 the interior is so much better looking than 7er , and R8 where BMW has nothing like...quattro is great stuff but do we really need it that much...overall audi makes super great looking cars , so does bmw plus much more
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      08-05-2008, 10:09 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowboarder View Post
This thread makes me ashamed I own a BMW... You guys should
just go out and take a deep breath...
Then Sell it for an audi you asshole
























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      08-05-2008, 10:25 AM   #99
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They better do something soon though as they cant give away the current a3/a4/a6/a8 cars. It is a shame but noone wants these.
May be you need to realize just how much Audis are sold worldwide, BMW sell 1.4million cars a year compared to Audi's 1million, but of those 1.4million there is 250,000 minis. So you see Audi's sales aren't that far behind BMW's and that's without the kind of success that BMW enjoy in the US which is mostly down to price.

Quote:
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I hope they sell some more cars to get out of this rutt their in. I used to sell them and feel bad for the guys I used to work with that got stuck having to sell them instead of coming over to out new BMW store.
Most of this statement centres on US sales and NJ in particular so either you don't see the bigger picture or you chose to ignore it completely. I sincerely hope your fellow Americans aren't so narrow-minded, see the States as the only market that's important.
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      08-05-2008, 12:40 PM   #100
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      08-05-2008, 12:49 PM   #101
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Heavier and slower in acceleration but still quicker in lap time.
I don't think that this is generally true. The E46 M3 was faster around the track an the E92 is faster than the RS4 around the track.
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      08-05-2008, 02:13 PM   #102
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I don't think that this is generally true. The E46 M3 was faster around the track an the E92 is faster than the RS4 around the track.
This comment of mine was regarding the new A4 3.2Quattro against the 335i. I understand what you are saying and to a large extent I agree with it, Audis are usually a little slower around the track compared to similar powered BMWs, but this new generation of Audis are bucking the trend. Whether it's the position shift of the engine or something else I don't know but something is clearly working.

Also when they range finally get this new sports diff (similar to the X6 system) then we may see even greater improvement from Audi. I read somewhere that the first car to receive the system is the S4, so except the 335i to receive a very hard time in the up and coming comparison tests.
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      08-05-2008, 03:04 PM   #103
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The #1 reason Audi will nevr be a head to head competitor:

Supply vs Demand.

Yes before i got my 335xi coupe I had an S5 on order. those things are so backordered the dealership wouldnt even give me an ETA. they told me end of september early november (maybe) for a car ordered the first week of June... I ordered my 335xi and it was delivered in 3 weeks!!!
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      08-05-2008, 05:20 PM   #104
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The #1 reason Audi will nevr be a head to head competitor:

Supply vs Demand.

Yes before i got my 335xi coupe I had an S5 on order. those things are so backordered the dealership wouldnt even give me an ETA. they told me end of september early november (maybe) for a car ordered the first week of June... I ordered my 335xi and it was delivered in 3 weeks!!!
The only reason your 335xi took 3 weeks was it was already in the pipe line of being built, for stock at some dealers or another. For a start the car is built in Germany, so there is at least 1 week in shipping, my (UK) M3 is taking 6~7 weeks from order to delivery, you do the maths.

Audi are no doubt trimming the stock in the US, mostly to keep residuals higher than BMWs are. I don't necessarily agree with it but it's something that Porsche and other exotics have done for long enough.

The only thing that is important is whether you are happy with your decision. I can't say if you would have been better waiting for the S5, that's many differences over in the US, namely cost which will sway decisions as much as anything. All I know is the S5 is a great car to drive and own, which I enjoy immensely and in many ways it was as good as I'm expecting the M3 to be. The main thing that I felt separated the S5 from the 335i was the feeling that you were driving something that little bit more special, it definitely bridges the gap between the 335i and the M3 on that front.
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      08-05-2008, 07:21 PM   #105
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i believe audi will surpass bmw eventually. they are really making a big improvement with their new design and the led trim in the headlight. by far audi has already surpassed bmw in exterior (debatable but in general) and interior (no joke on this one). once they get their chassis and engine more defined they will surely pass bmw.

and with the news that there will be no m3 csl based on demand (even though some say it's just a lie to sell the current m3 and when demand is low they will release the csl) i just don't know. bmw is making an x5 and x6 ///m which i think is retareded.

sorry for going off topic but is anyone with me on the whole ///m situation? bmw ///m is motorsport. they clearly were a big sucess with the m3 csl and gtr. now with benz popping out the black series why isn't bmw comming back at them with csl m6, m3, and maybe m5 along with the tii 135i? shiet we need something to make a comeback even though im sure bmw will take ALMS very soon
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      08-06-2008, 08:50 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I have read similar, that the A4 now have a 55.5%f vs 44.5%r balance. It's still not as good as BMW's norm but when SportAuto can get an A43.2Quattro (265hp) to lap Hockenheim quicker than BMW's 335i you have to rethink the opinion that it's weight balance is hindering the car's ability to handle.

...
They may have lapped quicker, but was it more enjoyable? I can say from experience, driving an Audi is the automotive equivalent of dating your sister.

Audi's in Australia get canned because their suspensions are too harsh... the one I had could loosen teeth over surprisingly short distances

As for your other comment about sharing only engine combos and minor switchgear - are you kidding??!! VW Group have a 4 platform strategy - everything is shared. They just whack a new badge on it's butt, put different clothes on and push it out to the market.

The OP was right about the LED lighting - VW couldn't wait to get their version of the shield grille out there ruining any brand distinction Audi may have built by adopting it by having it's lesser brethren ape it, and now I see concept VWs with LED lighting concepts very similar to Audi. Sorry but VW have no idea when it comes to managing brands - another example the new Passat had many new tech items before they were available on the A4.

It is almost like VW competes with Audi like a jealous sibling. It is wrong, and in the long term will destroy the value of Audi.
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      08-06-2008, 11:44 AM   #107
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It's still not as good as BMW's norm but when SportAuto can get an A43.2Quattro (265hp) to lap Hockenheim quicker than BMW's 335i you have to rethink the opinion that it's weight balance is hindering the car's ability to handle.
I have to see this. Is there a vid or something?
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      08-06-2008, 03:53 PM   #108
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They may have lapped quicker, but was it more enjoyable? I can say from experience, driving an Audi is the automotive equivalent of dating your sister.
I wouldn't disagree that rwd is the more enjoyable to drive on a race track, but when the surface is wet or slippy then I know I will enjoy the awd chassis far more.

Quote:
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As for your other comment about sharing only engine combos and minor switchgear - are you kidding??!! VW Group have a 4 platform strategy - everything is shared. They just whack a new badge on it's butt, put different clothes on and push it out to the market.
And this is from experience.....right.

Sorry for the laughter but that comment of chassis share is only valid for other VAG brands and not Audi, the only compatible chassis share between VW and Audi is the A3, even the TT has a unique chassis setup. From the A4 up there is only switch gear sharing and that is it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieA View Post
The OP was right about the LED lighting - VW couldn't wait to get their version of the shield grille out there ruining any brand distinction Audi may have built by adopting it by having it's lesser brethren ape it, and now I see concept VWs with LED lighting concepts very similar to Audi. Sorry but VW have no idea when it comes to managing brands - another example the new Passat had many new tech items before they were available on the A4.

It is almost like VW competes with Audi like a jealous sibling. It is wrong, and in the long term will destroy the value of Audi.
At present only Audi has the LED front light system but I wouldn't disagree that in the future it will be present, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see other brands offering something similar. As for the grille, please look at the future Golf and Scirocco, both bare no similarity with the front of any Audi. Audi's appearance both inside and out are of a standard above VW, all the materials used feel better. The same applies to BMW and Rolls Royce, Fiat and Ferrari, etc, etc...

Your comments are pure fanboy stuff with no experience or knowledge of the brands in question.
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      08-06-2008, 03:55 PM   #109
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I have to see this. Is there a vid or something?
I haven't seen the results in person, only hearsay but it's meant to have been in a review carried out by Sport Auto some months ago and they were very impressed with the new A4 Quattro chassis.
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      08-06-2008, 04:01 PM   #110
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Sorry for the laughter but that comment of chassis share is only valid for other VAG brands and not Audi, the only compatible chassis share between VW and Audi is the A3, even the TT has a unique chassis setup. From the A4 up there is only switch gear sharing and that is it.
:
I think you've forgotten about the Toureg and Q7. I believe they share the same chassis (along with the Cayenne of course). I fully reserve the right to be wrong.
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