BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-01-2008, 06:24 PM   #23
Gig103
Major
 
Drives: 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Posts: 1,295
iTrader: (1)

If I was shopping a 328xi or A4 2.0T, I'd go with the Audi for sure. I just left a 2.0T and liked it a lot, but in the end I wanted more power, and the 335i is a lot quicker than Audi's 3.2L V6.

And regarding the AWD, I'm reserving judgment until winter to fully compare Quattro vs Xdrive. But I know the Quattro wasn't as rough as XD over bumps, but the XD feels a little sportier with its 60/40 split.
__________________
Was: 2008 335xi sedan 6MT Black Sapphire Metallic
Is: 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth Nero (black metallic)
Gig103 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-01-2008, 06:30 PM   #24
Saintor
Colonel
 
Saintor's Avatar
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MTL, Canada

Posts: 2,376
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gig103 View Post
If I was shopping a 328xi or A4 2.0T, I'd go with the Audi for sure. I just left a 2.0T and liked it a lot,
NO WAY that the 2.0T is a better engine than the BMW I6. Acceleration isn't everything. Sophistication, sound and feeling of quality is *always* better with a 6 cyl.

The 3.2L in the Audi is a very good engine. 330i level.
Saintor is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-01-2008, 06:57 PM   #25
stickypaws
Dictator
 
stickypaws's Avatar
 
Drives: people crazy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: where you want to be

Posts: 1,817
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
NO WAY that the 2.0T is a better engine than the BMW I6. Acceleration isn't everything. Sophistication, sound and feeling of quality is *always* better with a 6 cyl.

The 3.2L in the Audi is a very good engine. 330i level.
I personally prefer a NA V6 engine for those reasons. It's quieter, smoother, no lag. Audi's V6s are decent but have been left behind in hp and torque. So on paper they might not look like a good deal to a lot of people. That's been Audi's issue at the moment.

But yes, acceleration isn't everything. It's always a trade-off. Better gas mileage, better torque and being mod friendly is the nice thing about the 2.0. But it's noisier and rattles around more and overall is not as refined. Again, it's a trade-off....

And then there's RWD vs AWD but we'll save that for another chapter
stickypaws is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 03:50 AM   #26
visor
BMW, can I have some LSD please?
 
visor's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 F30 328xi
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posts: 1,538
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickypaws View Post
I personally prefer a NA V6 engine for those reasons. It's quieter, smoother, no lag. Audi's V6s are decent but have been left behind in hp and torque. So on paper they might not look like a good deal to a lot of people.
There is no way that anyone would prefer a V6 over an I6 (inline 6) of the same displacement, regardless of NA or FI!! Are you aware of the inherent advantages of an I6 engine over a V6? For starters: balance, smoothness, quieter, revvy, axial mount instead of transverse, etc.
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg | Black | Al | 6MT | Sports Package | Logic 7 retired
2008 335i | AW | Black | Al | 6MT | Sports Package | Logic 7 retired
2013 328xi | Red | Gray | Al | 8AT | Sports Line | Premium | Executive | Heat Pkg
visor is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 06:11 AM   #27
StarrDlux
Pussycat's Meow
 
StarrDlux's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i montego | Stock
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Midtown (Altanta)

Posts: 682
iTrader: (0)

transverse?

there is a price to pay for inline 6 and that is definitely length. they sell 4 banger 3'ers in europe since $8-12/gallon is the norm. slow.

audi is however pretty tune friendly. none of this hitler isht from bmw

i'd never go back to turbo 4. i'd take a n/a 6 (simple) or turbo 6 (complex). the 4 banger audi's are the bottom of the line; they are like a 325i bmw where you just don't get some options or pay dearly for them. they are at a price point bmw can not touch right now.

i just like the bmw better, it costs more, but i like it better. now when my toddler can get in the coupe by herself then its A5/S5 versus a 1 coupe i've still got an A4 for practical reliablility that gets about 300 miles a year for those home depot runs. a car seat will fit into anything these days

coupe FTW ! but not when you have <2 yr old
__________________
2008 335i montego | stock
2002 A4 1.8TQS | APR 1+
1990 VW Corrado | Stage 4 by SNS
StarrDlux is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 06:48 AM   #28
John 070
Lieutenant General
 
Drives: 335i cpe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ZSP/ZPP/ZCW

Posts: 11,440
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by visor View Post
There is no way that anyone would prefer a V6 over an I6 (inline 6) of the same displacement, regardless of NA or FI!! Are you aware of the inherent advantages of an I6 engine over a V6? For starters: balance, smoothness, quieter, revvy, axial mount instead of transverse, etc.
I agree. This is something that we younger folks don't seem to relate to. But I distinctly remember my grandfather and dad having a discussion on how the V6 is imbalanced. I've seen the arguments that "it's not that bad" due to 45 v. 90 degrees, etc. But when push comes to shove, a V6 lacks secondary balance. So to say a V6 is smooth, smoother, or anything over an I6 is just plain wrong! Is it cheaper to produce a V6? Yes, because that motor is easily adapted to FWD, RWD, AWD, and can fit in more vehicles due to compactness. That's great for Audi since it's platform is basically FWD (yes, for 2k9, they've tried to lessen that).
John 070 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 09:58 AM   #29
Saintor
Colonel
 
Saintor's Avatar
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MTL, Canada

Posts: 2,376
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by visor View Post
There is no way that anyone would prefer a V6 over an I6 (inline 6) of the same displacement, regardless of NA or FI!! Are you aware of the inherent advantages of an I6 engine over a V6? For starters: balance, smoothness, quieter, revvy, axial mount instead of transverse, etc.
This is very clichés-like. V6 from Mercedes, Toyota and Honda are as smooth as BMW I6 these days. Even in cheap cars as Accord and Camry. A 3.5L 269HP in a Camry is a better and stronger engine than a BMW 328i's I6 .
Saintor is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 10:10 AM   #30
StarrDlux
Pussycat's Meow
 
StarrDlux's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i montego | Stock
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Midtown (Altanta)

Posts: 682
iTrader: (0)

actually i owned a 89 750il. so i can tell you that the inline-6 is not the smoothest motor bmw makes

after you rock the v-12 which made what 300hp on 87 octane with 8.8:1 compression (jeez if i had some turbo's back then) you'd realize what smooth is.

the inline-6 smoothness is tarnished by the small frenetic turbos on the x35 motor which feels like an audi. tons of torque then poof nothing left on the top end (look at the dyno's). that to me has to be accounted for in smoothness. it feels like a turbo inline-6 not all motor.

so what? there's going to be a better motor all the time. bmw sells the 320d and 320i 4-cylinders in europe. clearly they are state of the art direct injection motors like the audi 2 litre (and diesel).

what i found lame was the fact you had to buy service (48/60 months i forgot) on a 24/36/48 lease from audi now. thats b/s on a $40K car.

the reason i got the bmw was gas and go. turn it in , get a new one. tires - covered, dings and rash - covered,everything else covered. who wants to deal with that its not like most bmw owners have the TIME to even think about their car other than maybe drive it over to get detailed every so often. I'm in the negative for the next umpteen years i don't know about you guys/girls.

audi is good i have one. it works great. all wheel drive is tits. and for the cost ($30K) the car had amenities the 3 series doesn't have (4 heated seats, fold down seats, pop up hood soaping device!?) which i find funny that the near-50K car does have. to each his own.

The e46 was a cockpit drivers car, the a4 was a "passengers" car with a wide expansive dash. the 335i with Idrive felt more cozy but i got a somewhere in the middle without the idrive screen feel to the dash. The A5 is wow.

I realize that most of the time i do not need to go 300+hp worth of speed. the regular 220 to 265hp motors are quite fine for scooting around and this is the first CAR i've had to set the speed warning sensor on since its just too damn fun to not go 83+mph wherever you are. floor it and boom WRECKLESS driving.

Audi is much cooler about hacking their cars. they know the motor is good for 300whp before it needs upgrades. the ability to put many parts directly from the S4/RS4 (like $100 sway bars) onto the A4 is a real slick deal. I don't know how many cheap //M parts you can take off a M3 and stick on your 3 series right now. cheap being the operative word.

a 3.5L camry is a big turd with a big motor for americans. it drives like a big hunk of junk and people that have driven a 225bhp (325i?) bmw realize that 3.5L toyota/nissan is useless and not fun because of torque steer and FWD. power is useless if you can't put it to the ground. It's dangerous imo.
__________________
2008 335i montego | stock
2002 A4 1.8TQS | APR 1+
1990 VW Corrado | Stage 4 by SNS
StarrDlux is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 11:54 AM   #31
stickypaws
Dictator
 
stickypaws's Avatar
 
Drives: people crazy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: where you want to be

Posts: 1,817
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by visor View Post
There is no way that anyone would prefer a V6 over an I6 (inline 6) of the same displacement, regardless of NA or FI!! Are you aware of the inherent advantages of an I6 engine over a V6? For starters: balance, smoothness, quieter, revvy, axial mount instead of transverse, etc.
My response was about AUDI and the choice over its 2.0 forced induction motor and its NA V6 in the A4. Not about inline versus opposing.

Why does everyone seem to suffer from reading comprehension here?
stickypaws is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 12:51 PM   #32
simp0man
Not looking 2 SPEED, just looking GOOD
 
simp0man's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 328i
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stockton, Ca

Posts: 2,522
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 328i  [0.00]
Never liked the steering wheel, looks like someone threw a box and made a steering wheel out of it.
__________________
simp0man is offline   Cambodia
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 01:19 PM   #33
Bimmer007
Lieutenant
 
Bimmer007's Avatar
 
Drives: Cars
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Island, NY

Posts: 536
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenThree View Post
I think 5.7 is very respectable performance wise. Thats only a few tenths slower than a 335xi

i usally like to go by edmunds insideline.com which has been getting ~6.9 to 60.

too bad audi isn't importing the 3.2 with a 6mt like the b7, then we would see better numbers...




http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=126666



i can say this because i own a a4 3.2 6mt as one of my cars (i love it)
Bimmer007 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 02:09 PM   #34
Craigito
Captain
 
Craigito's Avatar
 
Drives: 07' E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SoCal

Posts: 728
iTrader: (0)

I like the new B8 styling. I think the car is overpriced for the engine performance. Audi would do well to spend more money in engine development. This is where BMW just eats them for lunch. Engine development is the core of their company as is clear by their laundry list of international engine awards. Of course the Audi interior is the top of the class but I'm more interested in driving feel and performance for this class of car. Does the BMW interior wow you...of course not. It's simple and well laid out and more than adequate for the price.

Also, having both a B5 A4 quattro and a 335i, the handling benefits of the 50/50 weight distribution far outweigh the quattro benefits. I am still amazed how well this car takes corners. I know that the new car is better balanced so I'd have to drive one to give a more informed review. Also, the poor resale on the Audi is also a big factor for some people too.

I think if the top of the line engine in the 3 was the previous 330i engine, I would probably have got another Turbo A4 (I'm a big fan of my A4). But the N54 was just too compelling to pass up so I made the switch. I hear the next S4 may go to a supercharged V6 instead of turbocharging. The problem is that is an S car and would be close in performance to a non M-car.

At the end of the day, you just have to drive them both and see which one gives you a bigger grin.
__________________
My Original Car 335I Coupe / Space / Black Dakota / Gray Poplar / ZSP / ZPP / Step / Paddles / Nav / Hot Seats / IPOD/ Xpel HL & Fogs/ 15% F1 Tint

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=226259 (Stolen Car Thread ) http://craigsbmw-eurodelivery.blogspot.com (ED Trip)
Craigito is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 04:25 PM   #35
visor
BMW, can I have some LSD please?
 
visor's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 F30 328xi
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posts: 1,538
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickypaws View Post
My response was about AUDI and the choice over its 2.0 forced induction motor and its NA V6 in the A4. Not about inline versus opposing.

Why does everyone seem to suffer from reading comprehension here?
Sorry, my bad... musta been too late at night.

But it looks like I picked up another one to continue the issue...
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg | Black | Al | 6MT | Sports Package | Logic 7 retired
2008 335i | AW | Black | Al | 6MT | Sports Package | Logic 7 retired
2013 328xi | Red | Gray | Al | 8AT | Sports Line | Premium | Executive | Heat Pkg
visor is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-02-2008, 04:50 PM   #36
visor
BMW, can I have some LSD please?
 
visor's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 F30 328xi
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posts: 1,538
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
This is very clichés-like. V6 from Mercedes, Toyota and Honda are as smooth as BMW I6 these days. Even in cheap cars as Accord and Camry. A 3.5L 269HP in a Camry is a better and stronger engine than a BMW 328i's I6 .
You may say it is cliche, but I6 engines inherently by design have better balance, smoothness, revvy, less NVH than V6. That's just the way physics work, no other ways about it. There is really no argument. It is a fact.

The V6 may get smoother with more NVH management, eg. balancing shafts, rubber mounts, etc, but the fact is the I6 does not require any of these measures for smooth operation.

If you want to know more, check out this:
http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...3.htm#Inline-6



Anyways, back to the regular scheduled programming...
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg | Black | Al | 6MT | Sports Package | Logic 7 retired
2008 335i | AW | Black | Al | 6MT | Sports Package | Logic 7 retired
2013 328xi | Red | Gray | Al | 8AT | Sports Line | Premium | Executive | Heat Pkg
visor is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2008, 03:59 AM   #37
StewartM
Enlisted Member
 
StewartM's Avatar
 
Drives: Ford Fiesta Mk7 1.25 Zetec
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scotland

Posts: 40
iTrader: (0)

My thoughts on the new A4 are quite simple.

I don't like the front lights on Xenon Models, I don't like the instruments on any one, the speedo and rev counter needles being vertical when off may look stylish, but make the important 30 - 40 MPH more difficult to see as it is lower down and I don't like the badly offset pedals, a big problem on RHD manuals.

Stewart.
StewartM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2008, 02:50 PM   #38
epoints
Private First Class
 
Drives: 550i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: OC

Posts: 111
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMachine View Post
I'm posting the info here just for comparison. Cartalk is more fun when you have comparisons. For what it's worth, base MSRP for 328xiT is $36,400.

Leftlane news:

August1

German luxury car maker Audi earlier today announced pricing for its 2009 A4 and A4 Avant equipped with the new 2.0-liter direct-injected and turbocharged four cylinder. The MSRP for the front-wheel drive sedan will be $32,700, while the all-wheel drive station wagon will cost $34,500.

Customer cars will start arriving at dealerships in September of 2008, with some Audi dealers getting demonstration examples for customers to test drive by the week of August 10.

The all-new models will feature more standard features, and when equipped with the 2.0TFSI and Quattro all-wheel drive system, will return better fuel economy than competitors, said Johan de Nysschen, Audi of America’s executive vice president.

While an optional 3.2-litter V6 engine with direct injection will be available in the sedan only, Audi has not revealed the pricing of that model. It will be significantly higher than the FWD 2.0TFSI price of entry however, as it is paired with a six-speed automatic transmission and an all-wheel drive system exclusively.

The Avant (wagon) will only be available with the turbo four-cylinder and Quattro all-wheel drive.

The 2.0TFSI engine is rated at 211 horsepower and 258lb-ft of torque, and EPA fuel economy of 21mpg in the city and 27mpg on the highway when installed in the manual-transmission, front-wheel drive A4 sedan.
No DSG?
epoints is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2008, 07:08 PM   #39
bubbletea 4 me
Lieutenant Colonel
 
bubbletea 4 me's Avatar
 
Drives: Finally here
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth

Posts: 1,904
iTrader: (5)

E90 is a better driver's car (so is all bmw compare to all audis other than R8). however, A4 owns E90 in all beauty contest. E90 is ugly stock and the new A4 is just beautiful inside and out.
bubbletea 4 me is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-03-2008, 08:54 PM   #40
GreenThree
Colonel
 
GreenThree's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 e90
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 2,069
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer007 View Post
i usally like to go by edmunds insideline.com which has been getting ~6.9 to 60.

too bad audi isn't importing the 3.2 with a 6mt like the b7, then we would see better numbers...




http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=126666



i can say this because i own a a4 3.2 6mt as one of my cars (i love it)

Yea, the jury may be out on this one. The 5.7 number came from Germancarblog.com road tests. Not sure why the second discrepancy?
__________________

2013 328i Xdrive | AT | Glacier Silver | Black Leatherette | Htd Seats | Moonroof
GreenThree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-04-2008, 12:30 AM   #41
The_Blob
Second Lieutenant
 
The_Blob's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada

Posts: 290
iTrader: (0)

Reliability is still an issue. I think it's quite practical for Canadian roads as in Canada it snows a lot. I think this Audi has a striking road presence!
The_Blob is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-04-2008, 09:08 AM   #42
Neil
The Designer
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Drives: Nissan
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CT, USA

Posts: 233
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Neil Send a message via MSN to Neil
The 09' A4 is a beautiful car (I would say better looking than any other 4 door in it's class) that I have not driven yet so I can't comment on it's drive.
__________________
Neil is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-05-2008, 08:20 AM   #43
ALPINE6SPD
Lieutenant General
 
ALPINE6SPD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 BMW 328i Sport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Highland Lakes NJ

Posts: 10,414
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to ALPINE6SPD
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenThree View Post
I think 5.7 is very respectable performance wise. Thats only a few tenths slower than a 335xi
I am talking about the whole package. In the class BMW is the most well rounded with sport coming first. Audi is not so this is why I prefer BMW's and why I sell them. I have sold Audi and they are great cars that I have a lot of respect for but IMO they do not feel as good as the BMW. They have a differen clients than I have at BMW though that is more is line with their car. It is not thats its really worse than the BMW it is that is different. What makes it different is what I dont like about it. Simple as that
__________________
2010 AW e90 328i: 6 speed, Black Leather, Dark Wood trim, ZPP, ZCW, ZVP,ZSP, Nav, Xenon
BMW Performance CF Rear spolier and Gloss black grills
2008 Candy White MKV GTI 2.0T 6 Speed Manul Gone
2008 AW X3 3.0si: 6 speed Returned
2006 AW e90 330i: 6 speed Dinan Stage 1 Returned
ALPINE6SPD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-05-2008, 08:46 AM   #44
GreenThree
Colonel
 
GreenThree's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 e90
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 2,069
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD View Post
I am talking about the whole package. In the class BMW is the most well rounded with sport coming first. Audi is not so this is why I prefer BMW's and why I sell them. I have sold Audi and they are great cars that I have a lot of respect for but IMO they do not feel as good as the BMW. They have a differen clients than I have at BMW though that is more is line with their car. It is not thats its really worse than the BMW it is that is different. What makes it different is what I dont like about it. Simple as that

I used to have a B7 A4. Loved it. Different than the Bimmer? YES. Agreed that speed is not everything. Just wondering why some reports say 5.7 and others say 6.7, etc.
__________________

2013 328i Xdrive | AT | Glacier Silver | Black Leatherette | Htd Seats | Moonroof
GreenThree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST