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      07-31-2008, 12:04 AM   #1
chicagobimmerboy
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Post What is the matter with BMW ????

I have not gone on a rant for a long time so here's a new one.

Recent events at BMW are starting to suprise me, first is the news that the CSL is a no go. They say there is no market for it, since when? As far as I know most of my friends who have M3's would sell their cars in a heart beat for a CSL. Most importantly is demographic, it aught to be sold here. Expense of tooling and production is one thing, but claiming that no one would buy it is just plain stupid. But and X5 or X6 M is a good idea?

Then there is the new face lift for the E92 and E90. The M3 has been out less than two years and already it has had a refreshening. That will further under cut sales of the already slow selling 08' E92 and E90. Not to mention there will be a ton of them sitting on dealer lots with huge price mark downs.

Next is the future of M, apparently it seems that turbos are just about all we have on the menu. The F10 M5 likely will have a TT V10 with 550-600 HP with direct injection. What's wrong with just straight direct injection, or lower displacement, or even "cam-less" technology?????

Oh, and someone started the rumor that the M5 would use the X6's V8 albeit modified for more power. Does that sound logical to you?? what the hell, are you popping alot of pills before posting here?

I'm sorry it just seems as if BMW has just totally lost its origionality and instead would rather follow the Audi and Benz camps with the same sort of plans for its models.

Is it just me ? or are there some of you who feel the same way?

And BMW.... I still love you!!!!
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      07-31-2008, 12:08 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post

Then there is the new face lift for the E92 and E90. The M3 has been out less than two years and already it has had a refreshening. That will further under cut sales of the already slow selling 08' E92 and E90. Not to mention there will be a ton of them sitting on dealer lots with huge price mark downs.
Only the e90 is getting refreshed, because the e90 has already been out for more than half of its lifetime run. E92's will get a facelift probably 2-3 years from now.

CSL was scrapped probably due to the costs, no one will pay 100K for a 3 series that just a bit lighter and has a few more horses, if they did introduce the CSL it will probably tank due to the current economy and fuel prices.

As for X5/6 M, BMW is trying to compete with Porsche Cayenne and MB's AMG.

Cutting down a few cylinders and adding turbos will help achieve better gas mileage, which everyone is concerned about nowadays.

BMW is not going crazy, BMW is adapting to a changing world, if they didnt then BMW wouldnt be able to keep up with their competition.
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      07-31-2008, 12:10 AM   #3
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Word!!! Especially the part about M3s! They should of got the LEDs in the first place! I hate BMW! (Even though they are still my favorite cars. -.-)
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      07-31-2008, 12:13 AM   #4
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Honestly I have read a lot of these threads on this forum lately, and all of what we know is speculation and "insider" leaks. I agree BMW has lost it's way in terms of the M model of and X5 or X6 and cutting the Z4 M but some of it does make sense. So many Z4 M's are sitting in my dealer's lot right now that they are will to sell them at under invoice. As an independent car company without the parent company's funding they have to turn a profit no matter what to stay afloat in this economic struggle. BMW does have to adjust to the market and what consumers are paying for. I am going to wait and see and hopefully be pleasantly surprised.
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      07-31-2008, 12:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post

And BMW.... I still love you!!!!
I don't think that I would think about BMW as much if I drove a Lamborghini.
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      07-31-2008, 12:27 AM   #6
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The US is "the most important market for M cars" but thanks to the economy, the green movement, and gas prices, sales are lagging and BMW is simply forced to think about their own wallets, as any company that wants to survive would. They have to chase after the money and follow the trends more closely than ever, even if it means making compromises with their own core philosophies (but hopefully not too much). Dual clutch transmissions, check! LED tail lights, check! More efficient M-cars, working on it. Cash-cow high performance SUVs and crossover vehicles, working on it.

Hopefully, if/when/if ever things settle down and go back to normal again in several years, BMW can go back to making no-compromises vehicles that'll make the most hard core of enthusiasts smile again. Not that there's anything wrong with the new M3. As long as they can still make cars like this now, who cares if they sell out and make M versions of the X5 & X6?! Porsche did it with the Cayenne, made lots of money, which now helps fund further development of even more improved versions of their ass-engined sports cars. So if BMW can fill their wallets by selling lots of M X5/X6 cars, more power to them so that maybe they will be inspired to spend more on R&D for their core M-division sports cars.

It's all good.
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      07-31-2008, 12:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masmole View Post
The US is "the most important market for M cars" but thanks to the economy, the green movement, and gas prices, sales are lagging and BMW is simply forced to think about their own wallets, as any company that wants to survive would. They have to chase after the money and follow the trends more closely than ever, even if it means making compromises with their own core philosophies (but hopefully not too much). Dual clutch transmissions, check! LED tail lights, check! More efficient M-cars, working on it. Cash-cow high performance SUVs and crossover vehicles, working on it.

Hopefully, if/when/if ever things settle down and go back to normal again in several years, BMW can go back to making no-compromises vehicles that'll make the most hard core of enthusiasts smile again. Not that there's anything wrong with the new M3. As long as they can still make cars like this now, who cares if they sell out and make M versions of the X5 & X6?! Porsche did it with the Cayenne, made lots of money, which now helps fund further development of even more improved versions of their ass-engined sports cars. So if BMW can fill their wallets by selling lots of M X5/X6 cars, more power to them so that maybe they will be inspired to spend more on R&D for their core M-division sports cars.

It's all good.

Nice, a very balanced and well thought out view point.
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      07-31-2008, 02:59 AM   #8
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^^^ I was just saying that because the op has a lambo. And it's Na
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      07-31-2008, 04:27 AM   #9
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I still don't believe they will put a M badge on the performance X5 and X6.

M does stand for motorsport, it has racing history.
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      07-31-2008, 06:34 AM   #10
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Good to let off steam every now and again! I too think providing an M version of the X5 and X6 is ridiculous!
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      07-31-2008, 09:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booforty View Post
Good to let off steam every now and again! I too think providing an M version of the X5 and X6 is ridiculous!
+1
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      07-31-2008, 10:24 AM   #12
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My comments from another thread.....Don't be sheep....vote with your wallet.

This is crap....///M is dead

I don't think people have fully grasped the choices that BMW ///M has made.....
  • They chose to use development resources on stupid fast trucks instead of pure bred performance cars - BIG MISTAKE
  • The only way they could have kept naturally aspirated engines is to lighten the cars..... They are going the AMD / Audi route....heavy cars (4000 lbs) with lots of power... This sucks! Look at Ferrari's future, the focus is on lighter cars and flat power.
  • How on earth can we have confidence in a company that is now choosing to tune up a 5000 lb truck instead of delivering CSL versions of real M cars?
  • All the crap they have been spooning us about how BMW loves revs is going to be repackaged into efficient performance marketing campaign
People have called me a BMW fanboi.....but this is monumentally bad and I am not overreacting.

Turbocharged cars are like enjoying fresh clear air through a gas mask.

Where is Mr. Gerhard Richter? He would have NEVER allowed this. This is brand dilution at its worse.
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      07-31-2008, 10:42 AM   #13
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TB,

What is the average price of an M car compared to a Ferrari, my guess is a third and based on that you are unlikely to see the same technology for lightening the cars as Ferrari can employ.

The best you can expect is for BMW to go for an Audi route of using alloy and steel together in the construction. The problem with catering to your wishes is lose of money because they wouldn't sell enough, that was the case of the last CSL and I don't see the market changing any time soon. The question you need to ask yourself is 'do you believe BMW could sell enough CSLs if the performance was only marginally better but the cost with up to 25% more?', if you still feel the answer is YES then I see you as someone in a minority.

The reality is that BMW want big sales for all of their cars not only the mainstream and what they are doing is catering for the masses, if you want a more focus sportscar look at Porsche but for what you are looking you have to be prepared to pay top dollar.

Personally I like the way BMW are moving, they are bridging the gap between what Audi are currently and what BMW were in the past, the only problem I see for the future is that Audi are moving more towards what BMW were while BMW are moving further away from that. I can see a future where a lot here will be jumping ship.
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      07-31-2008, 10:50 AM   #14
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I am already thinking that the engines in our M's are going to be the high water mark of normally aspirated street going powerplants .All the manufactures are having to move towards realities of the times and evioromental pressures of modern times.Forced induction is realistically the best direction to go to meet these challenges.
The M X trucks are another story but there is a market for them and that will put a lot of money in BMW's coffer and that is a good thing for the continued health of the M cars,as Porsche has done with Cayenne.I can see my E92 M3 staying around for quite awhile!
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      07-31-2008, 11:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post
I have not gone on a rant for a long time so here's a new one.
The thing is you are basing this rant on comments in a magazine where the interviewee has every reason to be coy in his responses. Its by no means official yet, both the CSL and the M X5/X6.

Furthermore, the E90 update was well known and makes absolute sense. As the doner chassis gets updates, so do the M vehicles that are based upon it. BMW can't afford to keep around two iDrive implementations and two tail light and bootlid designs just for the heck of it. If you want to know when a car will be updated before you buy - do research. For BMW its usually the fourth model year. Not too difficult, no need for surprises, and no need for rants nothing is wrong and no one has lost their way.

Cheers to you, and also /thread.
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      07-31-2008, 11:51 AM   #16
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Send a message via AIM to e46e92love
Not sure if you want to get upset about "UNCONFIRMED" information. But, they have been firing engineers, and that streamlining of the process is more like GM/FORD/Toyota and goes against the previous philosophy of BMW.

Face it boys, the bean counters have taken over. Get your e46s and the like while you can, because in a few generations BMWs are gonna be similar to toyotas then any of us will want to admit.
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      07-31-2008, 12:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The thing is you are basing this rant on comments in a magazine where the interviewee has every reason to be coy in his responses. Its by no means official yet, both the CSL and the M X5/X6.

Group heads don't make explicit statement like Willisch unless it is real. They have fudiciary responsiblities as officers of the company.

I am wondering when BMW will next allow series car to wear the ///M badge if you get the upgraded suspension package.

We are kidding ourselves if we think a 5000 lb truck is true to the ///M brand and hertitage. This sucks big time.

The only car company that has remain loyal to its ethos is Ferrari. You can imagine Enzo saying "Puro Sangue". No sedans, no TRUCKS! only high performance GTs and sportscars.

BMW ///M is selling out, you guys need to wake up. The thing we love is on the way out the door.
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      07-31-2008, 12:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
We are kidding ourselves if we think a 5000 lb truck is true to the ///M brand and hertitage. This sucks big time.
I've got a bet against the ///M X5/X6 with BMW-M-Mexico.

I think it will be a X5/X6 xDrive50is, and I am tempted to bet on that exact name to the letter. But I won't for now since it could be 55 instead of 50. I think, probably 460hp N64B44e (or whatever letter means more power).

We shall see.
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Last edited by mkoesel; 07-31-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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      07-31-2008, 01:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Turismo View Post
Word!!! Especially the part about M3s! They should of got the LEDs in the first place! I hate BMW! (Even though they are still my favorite cars. -.-)
The E92 coupe has always come equipped LED's, and the E90 ///M3 is receiving them within its first year of production.

All of the comments about selling out sound ridiculous. BMW is still producing the rawest performance vehicles (..with civility, and while remaining liveable during normal day to day activities) outside of top-dollar offerings.

....and even the aforementioned top-dollar offerings come with sacrifices in other areas.

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 07-31-2008 at 02:59 PM.
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      07-31-2008, 02:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
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....and even the aforementioned top-dollar offerings come with sacrifices in other areas.
Agreed, SC. Specifically, the areas of arm or leg. Or maybe kidney.
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      07-31-2008, 02:42 PM   #21
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I think this is a case of the spoiled teenager complaining about how they don't get enough from their parents. Until you or I work for a car manufacturer and know the ins and outs of the process of building cars it's an arrogant statement to say that the company should cater only to your wishes. Sure, I would prefer the M division not to build an X5/X6 variant, but part of me does just because it presents a challenge to them and has the possibility of redefining the boundaries of what a "performance vehicle" can be.

As for the possible lack of a CSL? I think people forget that not only would the production costs be a lot more, BMW would have to crash test it as a completely different model than a standard M3. Along with other factors that I have no idea about I would not blame them one bit if they did not offer it in the US. Faced with the reality of things, it just doesn't make sense to do it right now.
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      07-31-2008, 02:53 PM   #22
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My question is, if no CSL what will compete against the big bad Audi R8 or the Nissan GT-R
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