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      07-29-2008, 10:18 AM   #1
MI6
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Exclamation Official: no M3 CSL to be produced

___________________________________________

Update 8/26

As I'm sure many of you now know- Car magazine online published a story today confirming from Ludwig Willisch- the new BMW "M" Boss that there will be "NO" CSL for our E92....

Here's the site.......

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...ls-E92-M3-CSL/

Quote:
BMW ‘cancels E92 M3 CSL’

By Tim Pollard

26 August 2008 12:00

BMW has shelved plans to produce a lighter and sharper CSL version of the E92 M3. CAR’s artist’s impression reveals how the rawest M3 of all was scheduled to look – with an arrival date of summer 2009.

The M3 CSL was supposed to have power uprated to between 450bhp and 470bhp with a corresponding drop in weight, down by 100kg thanks to wider use of flyweight materials. Cup tyres, new engine breathing and a carbonfibre airbox were due to complete the makeover.

But the bean counters at Munich have now canned the project, so they can concentrate on the faster versions of the company’s X-badged crossovers.

The M boss speaks


Ludwig Willisch, the new M Division boss, said: ‘Based on current numbers, there is most likely insufficient demand for the M3 CSL.’
(Yes I know this was mentioned in an earlier post but I felt it was worth its' own thread.)

My own feelings are that this is only partially true. Audi is launching the RS5 in 2009 and I find it hard to believe that BMW won't create SOME kind of answer in the form of a more powerful E92 coupe....

What do you guys think? Will BMW ever create a more powerful E92, or are we stuck with 414BHP until the next gen M3 premieres?

_______________________________________

German car mag Auto-motor-und-sport interviewed Ludwig Willisch from BMW's M GmbH today and he is stating there will be NO M3 CSL as there is no market for it.

He also mentions the same thing for any M3 touring, 1 series "M" and any type of M1 "supercar".

Strangely enough, he does say there WILL be "M" versions of both the X5 and X6...........
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      07-29-2008, 10:23 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6 View Post
German car mag Auto-motor-und-sport interviewed Ludwig Willisch from BMW's M GmbH today and he is stating there will be NO M3 CSL as there is no market for it.

He also mentions the same thing for any M3 touring, 1 series "M" and any type of M1 "supercar".

Strangely enough, he does say there WILL be "M" versions of both the X5 and X6...........
Wow, what a bunch of idiots to just take what //M stands for and throw it out the window. //M used to stand for Motorsports, now it stands for Money.
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      07-29-2008, 10:25 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Wow, what a bunch of idiots to just take what //M stands for and throw it out the window. //M used to stand for Motorsports, now it stands for Money.
this is a shame. ///M does not belong on an X5 or an X6. BMW sold out. I am not surprised about no CSL though.
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      07-29-2008, 10:29 AM   #4
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Am I the only one who thinks it might look good?!?!?

Noone is forcing you to buy it, it will be a nice option for those who want a little more out of their X5/X6
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      07-29-2008, 10:33 AM   #5
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Am I the only one who thinks it might look good?!?!?

Noone is forcing you to buy it, it will be a nice option for those who want a little more out of their X5/X6
I don't think it is about whether it will look good or not. It is about the fact that ///M is losing focus and selling out in order to make money.
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      07-29-2008, 10:37 AM   #6
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I raise the on this one
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      07-29-2008, 10:38 AM   #7
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IMO, what's wrong about an M version of the X5/6 when there's a Porsche Cayenne Turbo?

As long as BMW M is also going to build real sports cars (i.e. CSL versions and a supercar) that's fine with me.


Best regards, south
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      07-29-2008, 10:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy View Post
I raise the on this one
A published interview with the director of BMW ///M is BS?

Best regards, south
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      07-29-2008, 10:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Windy View Post
I don't think it is about whether it will look good or not. It is about the fact that ///M is losing focus and selling out in order to make money.
That makes no sense man, just because they build an M X5/X6 doesnt mean that their M3/M5/M6 will become a worse car or suffer from the creation of an M X5/X6. Its just another option for BMW owners. It doesnt change what M means to us. And afterall, BMW is not selling us out in order to make money, thats what they do...they are a company...a manufacturer who is in business to make money. So if they can make more money by selling M X5/X6...then let it happen!!!


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Originally Posted by southlight View Post
IMO, what's wrong about an M version of the X5/6 when there's an Porsche Cayenne Turbo?

As long as BMW M is also going to build real sports cars (i.e. CSL versions and a supercar) that's fine with me.


Best regards, south
Exactly...Cayenne Turbo is an amazing car for those want a little more out of their Cayennes.
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      07-29-2008, 10:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6 View Post
German car mag Auto-motor-und-sport interviewed Ludwig Willisch from BMW's M GmbH today and he is stating there will be NO M3 CSL as there is no market for it.

He also mentions the same thing for any M3 touring, 1 series "M" and any type of M1 "supercar".
Bummer on the E91 M3. I'd have liked to see it, even if it will never come to the US anyway.

The CSL does not bother me much since its not an attainable car and even if I had the money I think I'd look at Porsche 911 S or GT3.

Quote:
Strangely enough, he does say there WILL be "M" versions of both the X5 and X6...........
I think the key is that your M is in quotes. Was that how it was written in the published article as well? Surely M Division will help tune the suspension and chassis for the top level X5 and X6, but I think it is all but confirmed they will be labeled "is". I.e. X5 xDrive50is and X6 xDrive50is.
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      07-29-2008, 10:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
A published interview with the director of BMW ///M is BS?

Best regards, south
They have also said that not only will a CSL version be produced but it will make its way to North America this time.

There is certainly a market for a CSL version in Europe, probably one in North America too since any CSL produced would come with The M-DCT which is selling like mad over here unlike the 6MT version.

IMHO its really too early for any thumbs up / thumbs down to be given on an M3 CSL
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      07-29-2008, 10:57 AM   #12
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When Porsche introduced the Cayenne, you could say the same about Porsche as now for the M GmbH. They sell their reputation of making true sports cars. IMO cars like the Cayenne and the X3/5/6 should be BANNED! They are ugly and make no sense, neither on the road nor off it:

If you want a true offroader: get a Toyota LandCruiser

If you want the space and the comfort: get a 5 series

If you want a sports car: get an M3/5/6 or a 911



Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
IMO, what's wrong about an M version of the X5/6 when there's a Porsche Cayenne Turbo?

As long as BMW M is also going to build real sports cars (i.e. CSL versions and a supercar) that's fine with me.


Best regards, south
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      07-29-2008, 11:10 AM   #13
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I said this before and I will say it again, every manufacturer make cars for money......the end.

The last CSL didn't sell shit and that was regardless of how good it was. The disappointing thing is why no 1 series M and why no supercar, if Audi can make a fist of it and have no problem selling them with their reputation then surely BMW should have no problem but they prefer to throw all of their money and man-power into making M-SUVs............why?

MONEY

Maybe it will be a role reversal between Audi and BMW.
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      07-29-2008, 11:21 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
That makes no sense man, just because they build an M X5/X6 doesnt mean that their M3/M5/M6 will become a worse car or suffer from the creation of an M X5/X6. Its just another option for BMW owners. It doesnt change what M means to us. And afterall, BMW is not selling us out in order to make money, thats what they do...they are a company...a manufacturer who is in business to make money. So if they can make more money by selling M X5/X6...then let it happen!!!
I never said that the m3/m5/m6 would be worse because of a MX5/MX6. I just feel that adding X5 and X6 to the lineup goes against the M ideology. The purpose and meaning of M is motorsport. No matter what you say, I will never agree that an X5 or X6 is worthy of that definition. Its an SUV/SAV, it shouldn't have the M brand. Maybe I'm an extremist or purist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I think the key is that your M is in quotes. Was that how it was written in the published article as well? Surely M Division will help tune the suspension and chassis for the top level X5 and X6, but I think it is all but confirmed they will be labeled "is". I.e. X5 xDrive50is and X6 xDrive50is.
Sounds good and fine to me. ///M can contribute, but no MX5/MX6. They could even call it the X5 turbo or X6 turbo if they want to steal the similar nomenclature from Porsche.

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Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy View Post
They have also said that not only will a CSL version be produced but it will make its way to North America this time.

There is certainly a market for a CSL version in Europe, probably one in North America too since any CSL produced would come with The M-DCT which is selling like mad over here unlike the 6MT version.
Who is "they?" I think that if you believe this you are setting yourself up for a letdown. Also, M-DCT is not "selling like mad," and I'm sure that BMW has serious concerns about the market for a CSL considering the current state of the economy and the amount of money that would have to go into such a design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss_cornholio View Post
When Porsche introduced the Cayenne, you could say the same about Porsche as now for the M GmbH. They sell their reputation of making true sports cars. IMO cars like the Cayenne and the X3/5/6 should be BANNED! They are ugly and make no sense, neither on the road nor off it:
+1. Just trying to make money (as footie said)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
The last CSL didn't sell shit and that was regardless of how good it was. The disappointing thing is why no 1 series M and why no supercar, if Audi can make a fist of it and have no problem selling them with their reputation then surely BMW should have no problem but they prefer to throw all of their money and man-power into making M-SUVs............why?
I don't get it either. If it is true that there will be no 1 series M or M supercar that is a shame. Guess that BMW is going too mainstream for things like that?
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      07-29-2008, 11:25 AM   #15
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Porsche has stated that the success Cayenne has allowed then to create some of the great cars they have produced. While Cayenne is not exactly what Porsche is known for, it is a good selling, money making venture for them that has allowed continued development of the 911, Cayman, the upcoming Panamerican, and whatever other enthusiast cars they create.

My guess is that BMW uses the same type of business case for M badged SUV's. Make money with them and then use it to develop the vehicles you specialize in. "M" itself isn't so meaningful that it can't be used other places; it won't detract from our cars. You can bet that an M X5 will haul ass and will do the name justice.
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      07-29-2008, 11:30 AM   #16
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Guess what guys: if BMW didn't want to make MONEY then they wouldn't stay in business. And, news flash: if you didn't "Sell out" for MONEY, then you wouldn't be able to afford a BMW.
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      07-29-2008, 11:34 AM   #17
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Well lets make our own CLS then!! Hahaha. I don't mind an M version of the X class, Porsche does it, as South has stated, and so does AMG with the ML63, so why not?
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      07-29-2008, 11:40 AM   #18
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Well, while everybody is getting heated about the CSL question, I just want to throw out that there are cars being produced that do not bring money.
The Bugatti Veyron for instance costs VW money, and they still build it. But this is more to be devil's advocate; of course BMW produces cars from a financial point of view.

In regards to the M heritage: I absolutely agree that M should stand for something pure. The sense of ownership and pride in Motorsport is sacrificed, if big cars (X5/X6) become part of that realm. SUVs don't deserve the M badge, because they are not sports cars.
The CSL was pride and joy for most owners, because it reminded them of what the M Division really stands for.

Best regards,
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      07-29-2008, 11:42 AM   #19
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So it seems almost everybody actually thinks these products will be labeled ///M, e.g. X6 M or X5 M or something similar?

Anyone want to place a friendly wager on that? After all, you've got the King of M saying it, right there in print. How can you go wrong? How bout it? Anyone want to bet on that?
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      07-29-2008, 11:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
So it seems almost everybody actually thinks these products will be labeled ///M, e.g. X6 M or X5 M or something similar?

Anyone want to place a friendly wager on that? After all, you've got the King of M saying it, right there in print. How can you go wrong? How bout it? Anyone want to bet on that?

Sure, I tink it will be ///M x6 etc...
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      07-29-2008, 11:45 AM   #21
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I know this may come as a surprise -- especially to people with certain political views of hope and change -- but businesses do not exist for the benevolence of mankind; they exist to make money for their owners and/or shareholders.
True, but properly run businesses should maintain sight of their objectives and the principles that they were founded on. BMW and ///M are two separate corporations. The purpose and focus of ///M is much different from BMW AG at large. I disagree with you that all businesses exist to make money for their owners and or/shareholders. While it might be true that businesses make money, they do not always exist for that purpose.

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Guess what guys: if BMW didn't want to make MONEY then they wouldn't stay in business. And, news flash: if you didn't "Sell out" for MONEY, then you wouldn't be able to afford a BMW.
I wasn't born yesterday...///M does not need a MX5 or MX6 to stay in business, so your argument is irrelevant. I don't sell out for money, I earn money doing a job that I enjoy. Working is rewarding. I don't view that as selling out. Selling out is when you abandon or stray from your foundation or principles for the sake of things like money or public appeal.
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      07-29-2008, 11:48 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by CSL-Fanatik View Post
Well, while everybody is getting heated about the CSL question, I just want to throw out that there are cars being produced that do not bring money.
The Bugatti Veyron for instance costs VW money, and they still build it. But this is more to be devil's advocate; of course BMW produces cars from a financial point of view.

In regards to the M heritage: I absolutely agree that M should stand for something pure. The sense of ownership and pride in Motorsport is sacrificed, if big cars (X5/X6) become part of that realm. SUVs don't deserve the M badge, because they are not sports cars.
The CSL was pride and joy for most owners, because it reminded them of what the M Division really stands for.

Best regards,
CSL
Well said. The example I was thinking of was how Lamborghini came to be. Definitely not for money, but because he thought that he could build a better product. BMW can whore themselves out as much as they want, but ///M should stay focused. To say that BMW should do it because Porsche and Merc do is sorry logic.

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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
So it seems almost everybody actually thinks these products will be labeled ///M, e.g. X6 M or X5 M or something similar?

Anyone want to place a friendly wager on that? After all, you've got the King of M saying it, right there in print. How can you go wrong? How bout it? Anyone want to bet on that?
Always a bettin' man! I'll pass.
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