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      07-28-2008, 04:38 PM   #1
e90im
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Bush administration projects record '09 deficit

Deficit for next year to hit $482 billion amid sagging economy.

source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25884806/

This is what happens when a shaved chimpanzee gets to be the president. Twice...
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      07-28-2008, 05:58 PM   #2
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nice job bushie

looking forward to the "it's not his fault..." replies
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      07-29-2008, 07:36 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by e90im View Post
Deficit for next year to hit $482 billion amid sagging economy.

source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25884806/

This is what happens when a shaved chimpanzee gets to be the president. Twice...
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      07-29-2008, 07:44 AM   #4
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One thing to keep in mind that a good part of that deficit is the result of bailing out people who made poor financial decisions by buying way more house than they could really afford and then further exacerbating the situation by doing so with high-risk adjustable loans. Rewarding failure while penalizing everyone else - disgusting, IMO. No wonder I couldn't figure out how all these people could afford nicer houses than I could - they couldn't.
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      07-29-2008, 07:51 AM   #5
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Remind me again which branch of government appropriates money? Or at least is supposed to, given that a total of ZERO spending bills have been passed for the 2009 fiscal year.
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      07-29-2008, 08:13 AM   #6
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What is the Legislative branch, Alex?
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      07-29-2008, 08:21 AM   #7
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What is the Legislative branch, Alex?
Very Good Ice Dog, and now for the Daily Double:

It is the party that controls both houses of the legislative branch.
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      07-29-2008, 09:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Very Good Ice Dog, and now for the Daily Double:

It is the party that controls both houses of the legislative branch.
I gotta say, and I'm not on either side specifically, but anyone who knows anything about the government knows it takes at least a couple of years to see the impact that a party or leader has made, especially financially. Decisions made may not go into effect for quite a while, and even after they do, they usually take even longer to have an impact. So to say that Democratic control shows they're to blame, or takes responsibility from Republicans, would be just silly. I'm not saying the Democrats will even do any better or worse, but you know that it can't be pawned off that easily.
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      07-29-2008, 09:25 AM   #9
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At the same time, those primarily responsible submitting the budget seem wont to project their problems on the Executive branch. That's just the way it seems to me.
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      07-29-2008, 09:29 AM   #10
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Very Good Ice Dog, and now for the Daily Double:

It is the party that controls both houses of the legislative branch.
WOW!
Never amazes me how NARROW minded a person can be...assuming he really believes what he types...
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      07-29-2008, 09:32 AM   #11
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I gotta say, and I'm not on either side specifically, but anyone who knows anything about the government knows it takes at least a couple of years to see the impact that a party or leader has made, especially financially. Decisions made may not go into effect for quite a while, and even after they do, they usually take even longer to have an impact. So to say that Democratic control shows they're to blame, or takes responsibility from Republicans, would be just silly. I'm not saying the Democrats will even do any better or worse, but you know that it can't be pawned off that easily.
That may in fact be true for policies that effect the economy in a macro-economic sense. Tax cuts, tax reforms, monetary policy, etc... but the annual budget is determined every year by the spending bills the Congress passes and the president signs.

The federal government does not spend a dollar that has not been appropriated by the Congress. Of course there is always a bit of projection involved in how much tax revenue the government will actually take in but on the spending side there is little guessing involved. Presidents have a role to play in determining the level of federal spending and the resulting deficits but it is a secondary role compared to the Congress.
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      07-29-2008, 01:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
That may in fact be true for policies that effect the economy in a macro-economic sense. Tax cuts, tax reforms, monetary policy, etc... but the annual budget is determined every year by the spending bills the Congress passes and the president signs.

The federal government does not spend a dollar that has not been appropriated by the Congress. Of course there is always a bit of projection involved in how much tax revenue the government will actually take in but on the spending side there is little guessing involved. Presidents have a role to play in determining the level of federal spending and the resulting deficits but it is a secondary role compared to the Congress.
And you don't think that decisions made today affect spending tomorrow?

For example: George Bush starts the war in the middle east, democrats take control, whether or not they want the war, they must continue to spend for it.

Again, I'm not saying one side or another is right, that's just the most basic example for our current situation.

I'd probably say that most money spent today is due to a decision yesterday.
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      07-29-2008, 01:30 PM   #13
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And you don't think that decisions made today affect spending tomorrow?

For example: George Bush starts the war in the middle east, democrats take control, whether or not they want the war, they must continue to spend for it.

Again, I'm not saying one side or another is right, that's just the most basic example for our current situation.

I'd probably say that most money spent today is due to a decision yesterday.
All I am saying is that every budget is new and not dependent on the previous one. The Democrats could have cut off funding for the war but they did not have the votes to do so. They could have cut spending in any number of areas but they did not.

FWIW, Bush did not start a war on his own, the Congress voted overwhelmingly, both Democrats and Republicans, for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I am not a big fan of Bush when it comes to government spending but the bottom line is Congress controls spending, not the President.
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      07-29-2008, 01:52 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I am not a big fan of Bush when it comes to government spending but the bottom line is Congress controls spending, not the President.
bushie had nothing to do with the budget?

first step in the budget process is the POTUS presents Congress with his budget, I'll give you that it takes two to tango but quite insulting for you to spin in like bushie is just a victim.

bushie tax cuts, bushie war, bushie record breaking expansion of the federal government, is he a fiscal conservative or a credit scorching spender?

not much leadership when it comes to personal responsibility
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      07-29-2008, 01:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
All I am saying is that every budget is new and not dependent on the previous one. The Democrats could have cut off funding for the war but they did not have the votes to do so. They could have cut spending in any number of areas but they did not.

FWIW, Bush did not start a war on his own, the Congress voted overwhelmingly, both Democrats and Republicans, for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I am not a big fan of Bush when it comes to government spending but the bottom line is Congress controls spending, not the President.
What you're saying may be THEORETICALLY possible, but not at all practical. Part of the reason they don't have the votes to do so, is because it ISN'T practical. You can't just so "nope, no more money, you're done". It would be a disaster.
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      07-29-2008, 02:04 PM   #16
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bushie had nothing to do with the budget?

first step in the budget process is the POTUS presents Congress with his budget, I'll give you that it takes two to tango but quite insulting for you to spin in like bushie is just a victim.

bushie tax cuts, bushie war, bushie record breaking expansion of the federal government, is he a fiscal conservative or a credit scorching spender?

not much leadership when it comes to personal responsibility
The President submits a budget to Congress but Congress is under no obligation to even consult it when putting together their budget resolution or the individual appropriation bills. Did they not teach this in your civics classes?

Did you read the part where I say, "Presidents have a role to play in determining the level of federal spending and the resulting deficits but it is a secondary role compared to the Congress.?" I did not claim that the President is a victim but that his culpability in this matter is significantly less than the Congress'. That is especially true for FY 2009 since there has yet to be any spending bills out of Congress or that year to date.

The sad part is Bush did not presented himself as a fiscal conservative to any great degree nor has he governed as such. That is one area where conservatives have opposed him.

ps.... is the "bushie" thing supposed to be meaningful or just childish?
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      07-29-2008, 02:06 PM   #17
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What you're saying may be THEORETICALLY possible, but not at all practical. Part of the reason they don't have the votes to do so, is because it ISN'T practical. You can't just so "nope, no more money, you're done". It would be a disaster.
It was more than theoretically possible. They tried repeatedly to do it. That is exactly how the Vietnam War ended. Congress cut off all funds to aid South Vietnam and the North Vietnamese Army rolled into Saigon.
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      07-29-2008, 02:11 PM   #18
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It was more than theoretically possible. They tried repeatedly to do it. That is exactly how the Vietnam War ended. Congress cut off all funds to aid South Vietnam and the North Vietnamese Army rolled into Saigon.
Okay, except in an extreme case, it's not likely to happen. You're nit picking here. My point is, it's not as cut and dry as a new party coming in and cutting off funding to every single decision made before them, and starting all over on their own.
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      07-29-2008, 02:18 PM   #19
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ps.... is the "bushie" thing supposed to be meaningful or just childish?
it's meant to be annoying to bushie lovers...working? I thought it a nickname bushie would himself give, like "good job Brownie!"
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      07-29-2008, 02:24 PM   #20
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Okay, except in an extreme case, it's not likely to happen. You're nit picking here. My point is, it's not as cut and dry as a new party coming in and cutting off funding to every single decision made before them, and starting all over on their own.
Except when it does happen. Do you remember the government shut downs after the Republicans took control of Congress in 1994? They did try and (occasionally) succeed to cut funding to long standing programs. If the Democrats were serious about the deficit, they could do the same thing and they would be even more successful because plenty of Republicans would join them.
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      07-29-2008, 02:24 PM   #21
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it's meant to be annoying to bushie lovers...working? I thought it a nickname bushie would himself give, like "good job Brownie!"
Not really, just makes you sound like a 10 year old.
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      07-29-2008, 02:30 PM   #22
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Not really, just makes you sound like a 10 year old.
Seems it does annoy you.
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