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      07-25-2008, 05:11 AM   #23
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Bruce,

The ring is unlike any other track and definitely share nothing with a normal race track, it has cambers, bumps and dips all in one corner never mind over an entire lap. This is why so many manufacturers do the basics of suspension setup here and fine tune the ride quality.

It doesn't always mean a car will perform great on the ring because of time it may have done else where, the Viper might use brute power and ultimate grip to muscle a decent lap time but the driver (if independent) might say the thing was a wild animal. I always take ring times as a rough guage of a cars ability and then see if the thing is enjoyable to drive.
The fact that not every performance car has been run at the ring.

The fact that each car is run on different days in different conditions.

The fast that no one knows for sure what has been done to the cars, if anything.


If the "ring" is now going to be the barometer used to measure performance, something needs to be done to validate the times.


I do agree with car companies using the ring for R&D, a great place to do that. But to use the ring times to say whether this car is better than that car, I don't agree with that.
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      07-25-2008, 07:45 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
Bruce,

The ring is unlike any other track and definitely share nothing with a normal race track, it has cambers, bumps and dips all in one corner never mind over an entire lap. This is why so many manufacturers do the basics of suspension setup here and fine tune the ride quality.

It doesn't always mean a car will perform great on the ring because of time it may have done else where, the Viper might use brute power and ultimate grip to muscle a decent lap time but the driver (if independent) might say the thing was a wild animal. I always take ring times as a rough guage of a cars ability and then see if the thing is enjoyable to drive.
So footie, are you saying you'd also like to see how the Dodge would do at the 'Ring?

Without negating anything you've said about the 'Ring (and since its unique conditions are routinely reported in every single article about testing there, most of us already know about that), the ACR Viper is in fact a race car, with premium adjustable suspension components. In the league of top performance cars, the Dodge is a lump of pig iron in a world of watchsprings, but I'm guessing the ACR would be a very fast lump indeed.

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      07-25-2008, 08:48 AM   #25
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Bruce,

Bingo, I reckon the thing will produce a very decent time but to anyone other than a profession race driver the thing will be a handful.
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      07-25-2008, 12:12 PM   #26
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I'm sure the Viper ACR would throw down a wicked time around the ring...due to its huge grip and downforce....assuming the ZR1 can do a 7:26 I would guess the ACR could beat that by a little bit... so low 7:20's.....
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      07-25-2008, 12:20 PM   #27
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I read about a Viper just yesterday where it really kicked the sh????? out of the GT-R, Porsche GT2 and ZR1. It did better on EVERYTHING, perfomrance wise that is, than the other cars.
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      07-25-2008, 03:19 PM   #28
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Did they wreck the M3? What's going on with the hood in this pic?

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      07-25-2008, 03:53 PM   #29
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Hadn't cought that! Wow. It is funny.
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      07-25-2008, 06:45 PM   #30
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The ACR is badass, but I couldn't live with such a huge car as a DD. Surprised the GT2 didn't fare better.
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      07-25-2008, 08:24 PM   #31
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M3 disapointing again.
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      07-25-2008, 11:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTorque View Post
M3 disapointing again.
You're kidding, right?

These are some seriously badass cars it's up against.

Spend too much time on these forums and you get to thinking it's some kind of supercar instead of a very adroit set of compromises...

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      07-26-2008, 12:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTorque View Post
M3 disapointing again.
That's an uninformed comment. Read most of the preceding posts to discover why.
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      07-26-2008, 01:12 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Spend too much time on these forums and you get to thinking it's some kind of supercar instead of a very adroit set of compromises...
Just so. The M3 offers more potential than most = including me at this juncture - can test.

It's not a "supercar" though, that is a relative term as it most certainly may be characterized as such even as recently as 10 years ago.

All I know is that the 'stats' attest to a great car: but the personal observations are even better
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      07-26-2008, 01:23 AM   #35
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M3 disapointing again.
Yeah, too bad you got a 335i which is even worse.
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      07-26-2008, 02:39 AM   #36
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Yeah, too bad you got a 335i which is even worse.
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      07-26-2008, 04:49 AM   #37
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Am I the only person who sees these other cars for what they are, as Bruce says each are full of compromises and depending on what your opinions are.

The Viper ACR, is at best a semi-pro race car for the road, it's uncomfortable, too wide for anything other then a race track or the open highway and will no doubt (though I haven't heard one) be way to loud to enjoy without a helmet on or wearing ear defenders. It will drink a petrol tanker dry in 30 minutes never mind it's own tank and you will away have to listen to people saying your engine came from a pickup.

The Gallardo, it's too expensive for most people (99% of the public), it seats two people and has zero luggage space, it will cost a bomb when servicing and you will look like a dork for owning one and everyone will hate you because you have enough money to own one.

The GT2, most of what was said about the Gallardo plus it looks the same as one from 20 years ago.

The Z06, the price is the one thing that appeal about this car but the quality of the product, especially the interior is not. It's as American as apple pie and because of that it's as common a supercar as you will ever get if you live in the States, as for the rest of the world you can drive one because of the above, that makes you love like one of those dicks who wished they were American, which to most people not from there is a little sad.

The DBS, more practical than the rest of the above and definitely one you could live with but it's still out of 99% of peoples' budget, with service bills to match and being hand built means things will break on a regular bases, not something you want from a thing that costs this much.

Which leaves us the M3, yes too many of forums like this see this car is the greatest thing around and think it could walk on water if it had feet. But for all it's practically, usability, modest price and running costs, its less common than a Vette. It's German which means it's built well and it's almost as quick as some of the others above, if only in the hands of a true professional. With the exception of the GTR no other car in this price bracket is a better all-rounder which for many people means the M3 as the only real victor in this tests.

Well done M3 for coming fifth.
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      07-26-2008, 02:37 PM   #38
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hey at least it beat the Lotus and the Mitsu.
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      07-26-2008, 04:34 PM   #39
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Seriously, who is expecting the m3 to beat Gallardos, GT2s and GTRs in purely track terms?
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      07-26-2008, 04:47 PM   #40
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Seriously, who is expecting the m3 to beat Gallardos, GT2s and GTRs in purely track terms?
Not me!! Just want to give them a run for their money and I think it does that very well.
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      07-28-2008, 09:24 PM   #41
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Not me!! Just want to give them a run for their money and I think it does that very well.

x2 - the M3 is good enough that unless the other driver is very good you can give them a hard time or keep up.
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      08-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #42
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I gues the M3 did NOT have EDC? they dont mention it at all.
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      08-03-2008, 10:58 PM   #43
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Talking I think the M3 would have done a little bit better with the power button on

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interesting about the first comment about turning the power button off because it was "way too responsive."
+1000000

Leave it to road and trash to not show some love with the M3 and turn the power button off them bastards I think it could have got the DBS
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      08-03-2008, 11:32 PM   #44
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+1000000

Leave it to road and trash to not show some love with the M3 and turn the power button off them bastards I think it could have got the DBS
not to mention the hood not being closed properly couldn't have helped.
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