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      07-22-2008, 12:57 AM   #1
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Is God Dead?

When you travel to Europe, don't be surprised to find that many Europeans don't believe in God. I have even witnessed some alcohol-infused conversations between Americans and Europeans that almost ended in fistfights over His/Her existence. When you travel to the following countries, you might want to pick a less controversial topic of conversation ... umm, maybe George W?



Here are the Top 10 least religious countries in the world:

1. Sweden (up to 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)
2. Vietnam
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Japan
6. Czech Republic AKA Czechoslovakia (by John McCain)
7. Finland
8. France
9. South Korea
10. Estonia (up to 49% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)

F^&king freedom fries eating, slant eye euro trash moth&^*fu((kers.......
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      07-22-2008, 01:26 AM   #2
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Religion is such a touchy subject its not a surprise people have given up on religion. Very closed minded for some regarding believers or non-believers. It's not a surprise movies like this are coming out..... yes I know I'm being very vague. No need to start a argument that will not end....
http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/
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      07-22-2008, 04:12 AM   #3
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south korea?... almost all the Koreans i know are christian..
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      07-22-2008, 04:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
When you travel to Europe, don't be surprised to find that many Europeans don't believe in God. I have even witnessed some alcohol-infused conversations between Americans and Europeans that almost ended in fistfights over His/Her existence.
Well, in Europe they tend to be more into independent thought than we are in America. (Think of all the negative media stereotypes we have for smart people.) In Europe, a common term for atheist or agnostics is "free-thinker." There are few religions that can stand up to even mild questioning.

And the religious folks don't help, at least here in the US. Lots of people claim to be religious and subscribe to some faith but don't practice it or follow its tenets, and the people actively practicing a faith rarely gave any real thought to why they do; their parents told them that was their religion and that was good enough. I've long held that religion the world over could be wiped out it no one were taken to church until they were at least 6 years old. You simply wouldn't be able to get them to buy into it.
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      07-22-2008, 08:36 AM   #5
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I've long held that religion the world over could be wiped out it no one were taken to church until they were at least 6 years old. You simply wouldn't be able to get them to buy into it.
that's not true. the most faithful people i know became christians in their adult lives. and most of the wavering ones are the ones that have been around it all their lives.

it's just my observation from being a christian and part of a church for over 7 years.

where do you base your observations from?
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      07-22-2008, 09:03 AM   #6
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Man created god in his own image
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      07-22-2008, 09:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
When you travel to Europe, don't be surprised to find that many Europeans don't believe in God. I have even witnessed some alcohol-infused conversations between Americans and Europeans that almost ended in fistfights over His/Her existence. When you travel to the following countries, you might want to pick a less controversial topic of conversation ... umm, maybe George W?



Here are the Top 10 least religious countries in the world:

1. Sweden (up to 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)
2. Vietnam
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Japan
6. Czech Republic AKA Czechoslovakia (by John McCain)
7. Finland
8. France
9. South Korea
10. Estonia (up to 49% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)

F^&king freedom fries eating, slant eye euro trash moth&^*fu((kers.......
Shut up.
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      07-22-2008, 12:56 PM   #8
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Sex slave fears she'll be forced back to rape city

Sex slave fears she'll be forced back to rape city

By Rachel Clarke

CNN

SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (CNN) -- The outbreak of war seemed like a joke to Jasmina, then just 19 years old. She dreamed of being an economist and says she played with her toddler son and baby daughter as if they were toys.

Jasmina says she was raped repeatedly during the rule of Radovan Karadzic: "Every day we were raped."

But in April 1992, the Serb soldiers took over her city of Bijeljina, in northeast Bosnia near the border with Serbia, and began to kill, torture and terrorize the Muslims there in a brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing.

"Whole families were disappearing during the night. Sometimes we could see their bodies in the gardens, sometimes not even that," Jasmina told CNN.

"The men from my family were beaten up the first day. ... My mother just disappeared. I never found out what happened."

Paramilitaries loyal to Arkan, the Serbian ultranationalist later indicted for crimes against humanity, came to the home Jasmina shared with her husband and extended family to search for valuables and weapons. When they found no guns they started beating her husband, said Jasmina who asked CNN not to use her last name to protect her children.

"Then they started torturing me. I lost consciousness. When I woke up I was totally naked and covered in blood and my sister-in-law was also naked and covered in blood. ... I knew I had been raped and my sister-in-law too." In a corner, she saw her mother-in-law, holding her children and crying.

"That same day we were locked in our house. That was the worst, the worst period of my whole life. That's when it started.

"Every day we were raped. Not only in the house -- they would also take us to the front line for the soldiers to torture us. Then again in the house, in front of the children," Jasmina said through a translator, remembering the 10 other women who were brutalized with her.

"I was in such a bad condition that sometimes I couldn't even recognize my own children. Even though I was in a very bad physical condition they had no mercy at all. They raped me every day. They took me to the soldiers and back to that house.

"The only conversation we had was when I was begging them to kill me. That's when they laughed. Their response was 'we don't need you dead.'"

Once at the front line there were women soldiers who tortured her with a bottle and then slashed at her throat and wrist when it broke. Then the troops cut one of her breasts with a bayonet, said Jasmina, now looking older than her 35 years.

"It lasted for a year. Every day. ... Not all the women survived."

Tens of thousands of women were raped in Bosnia and the other parts of the former Yugoslavia between 1992 and 1994 during the rule of Radovan Karadzic, according to estimates by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. See a timeline of Karadzic's rule »

Karadzic was captured this week after years on the run and now will face war crimes charges at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. The tribunal, set up to try war crimes suspects, established for the first time that rape was a crime against humanity and that rape was "used by members of the Bosnian Serb armed forces as an instrument of terror."

For Jasmina, some relief came one day in 1993 when a familiar face, an older Serb who had been a friend of her parents, appeared at the house where she was being kept. Jasmina was told he had bought her as a prostitute but, once in a car with him, the man said he was saving her. "I owe this to your parents," he said.

He drove Jasmina and her children to the front lines, gave something to the Serb soldiers there and directed her towards the Bosnian position, saying "Now you are free to go."

"I was very weak, I weighed only 45 kilos [99 pounds]. I carried both my children for more than a kilometer to the Bosnian side."

Jasmina was safe, but scarred. "I felt ashamed, I wanted to die, to disappear somehow. I couldn't take care of my children, others did that, I just didn't have the strength or the will."

A new low came when doctors began to treat her in one of the refugee centers around the city of Tuzla.

"They discovered that I was pregnant, six months pregnant and I didn't know that. It was too late for any abortion, but I kept saying I didn't want that child."

The gynecologist pleaded with Jasmina to have the child and give it up for adoption, saying it was too dangerous to try anything else. But that was no option for Jasmina. "I didn't want to hear about that, about giving birth to that child at all."

Finally, medics said they could try to abort the child but it was a very risky operation that only 1 in 100 women would survive. "I begged them to do it," Jasmina said, pausing to remember an 18-year-old girl who had the same operation on the same day as her and died. Jasmina herself continues to have gynecological health problems stemming from her abuse.

Months later, her husband arrived at the same refugee center after managing to escape a camp in Serbia. A man he broke out with was killed by a mine.

"It was such a difficult moment for me. I wasn't even sure if I wanted him to be dead or alive. I knew that he knew what had happened to me so it was very, very difficult for me," Jasmina said.

"I thought he was going to leave me and take my children because of everything that happened. But he told me he was not going to ask me about anything. And that he also went through terrible things himself so he didn't want to discuss anything." Yet still she says she cannot look her husband in the eye.

Jasmina said she was unable to talk to the therapists in Tuzla and tried to kill herself in 1995 -- the first of three suicide attempts.

"I will never be OK," she said, adding that she believes God kept her alive for a reason.

She now lives in a modestly furnished apartment in a tower block in Sarajevo, the capital of Bosnia-Herzegovina. She has been there since 2001 with her husband and children.

Her dreams now are for her children. She believes it's critical she give them some stability, but says that's impossible when she doesn't know from day to day if she will be evicted.

She does not own the apartment and all property must be returned to rightful owners under the terms of an annex to the U.S.-brokered peace agreement that ended the war.

The same pact allows for the return of all refugees and displaced people -- more than half of the country's people left their homes during the war according to the International Organization for Migration -- and the re-establishment of the mixed ethnic communities that had lived peacefully for centuries before the war.

The Office of the High Representative for Bosnia-Herzegovina, an international body set up to oversee the implementation of the peace agreements, says almost all property rights have been restored. But it is impossible to say how many people have gone home and how many have sold their houses, leaving cities and towns like Bijeljina "ethnically cleansed" as the warmongers had planned.

A law enacted in September 2006 does include a section that homes should be provided for victims of sexual torture during the war. It is not clear who should implement the act and there is no agency making sure the law is enforced, according to the Ministry for Human Rights and Refugees.

Meanwhile, authorities say Jasmina should return to her mother-in-law's rebuilt house in Bijeljina. But she says she will never go back to the place where she lost 39 members of her family and where her abuse began.

It is a fear shared by other women, according to Alisa Muratcaus, the president of the Association of Concentration Camp Survivors -- Canton Sarajevo -- a group that offers classes and other support to Jasmina and 1,200 other women around the capital, including 150 victims of mass rape.

"Many of our members must deal with the realities of return. Not all members are able psychologically to return to regions in which they suffered such extreme human rights abuses," she told CNN.

"No one raped women has returned to their pre-war houses, since it is immoral and inhuman to request their return while the war criminals who tortured them are still free and live in these regions."

The Sarajevo municipality that owns Jasmina's apartment says it does not plan to evict her and that any such directive would come from the Ministry for Human Rights and Refugees.

Saliha Djuderija, head of the Ministry's Department of Human Rights, said she was aware of victims who could not face returning to the places where they were tortured and was working on a solution. In the last couple of years, between 15 and 20 women have been given somewhere to live, but lack of funding is restricting the help that can be given. Priority was given to women who testified against their attackers and Jasmina is not in that group as her case is still unsolved.

But if her future is in doubt, Jasmina's mind is made up. "I'm not going to take my children to Bijeljina. I told my children when I die, don't take my bones to Bijeljina. I don't want to hear about Bijeljina. It doesn't exist for me," she said, flashing anger for the first time in a lengthy interview.

Then she shows a picture of her daughter, a beautiful young woman, but even that causes Jasmina pain as she remembers how the soldiers picked her out. "I was beautiful once. It cost me my life."
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      07-22-2008, 01:13 PM   #9
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For Bosnian Serb, a Life of Hiding in Plain Sight

For Bosnian Serb, a Life of Hiding in Plain Sight
By GRAHAM BOWLEY

He grew long white hair and a flowing white beard, and, as Dragan Dabic, the former psychiatrist worked for years in a clinic in Belgrade, the Serbian capital, as a practitioner of alternative medicine. He even lectured at local community centers.

“How convincing his false identity was, we can tell you that he has been freely walking in the city, ” said Serbia’s war crimes prosecutor, Vladimir Vukcevic, on Tuesday. “Even the people he rented a flat from were unaware of who he was.”

The secret life was very different from his years as the outspoken, clean-shaven leader — with a prominent square jaw and a distinctive shock of grey hair — of Bosnian Serb forces during the 1990s.

But on Monday his false identity was broken, his mask pulled away, and secret police officers arrested Radovan Karadzic, one of the world’s most wanted war criminals for his part in the massacre of nearly 8,000 Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica in 1995.

He had been sought by international prosecutors since he vanished from view in 1996.

All along, he was said to have eluded arrest by disguising himself as a Serbian Orthodox priest and by hiding out in caves in the mountains of eastern Bosnia and in monasteries.

But details provided by Serbian officials for the first time on Tuesday showed that at least for some of those years, one of the accused architects of Europe’s worst massacre since World War II had been hiding in Serbia in plain sight.

Serbian officials said he had transformed his identity and appearance so successfully that he was able to go out freely in public. He used false documents and false identities, and worked at the clinic, in New Belgrade, a working class neighborhood that is known as a stronghold of Serbia’s radical far-right party.

Why the arrest occurred now is not clear. But just weeks ago, on July 7, a new pro-Western coalition government was formed in Serbia whose overriding goal is to bring Serbia into the European Union, the world’s biggest trading bloc. The European Union, meanwhile, has made delivering indicted war criminals to the war crimes tribunal in The Hague a precondition for Serbia’s membership, and has been particularly scathing about the continued liberty of Mr. Karadzic.

Last week, security forces raided the Sarajevo apartment of Ljiljana Karadzic, the ex-politician’s wife. They seized documents and materials as clues for their search. In recent weeks, homes of other known supporters of Mr. Karadzic were also searched.

Then on Monday, police officers began to follow Mr. Karadzic for several hours from mid-afternoon until the evening, until they swooped. There were rumors of the involvement of a foreign secret service but this was vehemently denied by the Serbian government. The exact location of Mr. Karadzic’s arrest was not disclosed, but government officials said he was apprehended by Serbian secret police not far from Belgrade.

A judge concluded that he should be transferred to the tribunal in The Hague, although Mr. Karadzic now has three days in which to appeal the decision.
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      07-22-2008, 02:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epbrown View Post
any real thought to why they do; their parents told them that was their religion and that was good enough. I've long held that religion the world over could be wiped out it no one were taken to church until they were at least 6 years old. You simply wouldn't be able to get them to buy into it.
I disagree.

I grew up going to church every weekend. If I didn't go on Saturday with my parents I had to go Sunday. Most of the time I had no choice in the matter. My dad didn't go back to church until my mom was about to leave and then I said "If dad doesn't have to go why do I?"

I was baptised and confirmed catholic. As soon as I went to college I never went. Even if I was home from college I'd refuse to go. I only went on holidays.

It wasn't until I reached a dark time in my life that I started doing some soul searching. I re-established my belief and faith in God. I, however, do not attend a Catholic church. I actually think organized religion as a whole is a farce. I don't buy into that aspect of it. I found a church where I truly appreciate the sermons and it puts my mind in the right state to start the week on a positive note.

It bothers me when I see religious people of sorts trying to convince others to believe/follow or talking down about those who drink/use drugs. It equally bothers me to be told I'm an idiot for believing what I believe.

If it bothers you that someone doesn't believe or does believe, let it go. It's not worth entertaining an argument for the sake of nothing. And something that neither side is going to sway the other. Agree to disagree and have another beer.
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      07-22-2008, 02:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Scott, you're going wack-o???
What does any of what you posted have to do with the current thread?
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      07-22-2008, 02:37 PM   #12
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2007 Top 10 Persecutors

Muslim Countries Dominate Open Doors Top 10 Persecutors List

Open Doors released its annual “World Watch List” on Wednesday, red-flagging countries with intense persecution of Christians.

North Korea again tops the persecutor list for the fifth straight year. The reclusive communist state is known to execute Christians found with a Bible, imprison and torture believers and ban all forms of worship.

According to Open Doors, more Christians in North Korea were arrested in 2006 than in 2005. Between 50,000 and 70,000 Christians are currently suffering in prison camps where torture is regularly implemented.

2007 Top 10 Persecutors:

1. North Korea
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Iran
4. Somalia
5. Maldives
6. Yemen
7. Bhutan
8. Vietnam
9. Laos
10. Afghanistan
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      07-22-2008, 02:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Scott, you're going wack-o???
What does any of what you posted have to do with the current thread?
In the article "Sex slave fears she'll be forced back to rape city" the victim said
"I will never be OK," she said, adding that she believes God kept her alive for a reason.
Likely this testimony could be documented better than this one sentence.

Weren't you and e90im from Bosnia? Perhaps I jumped to a conclusion thinking these articles would mean something to you.
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      07-22-2008, 02:55 PM   #14
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Religious Body Number of Adherents

Catholic Church** 1,100,000,000
Sunni Islam* 1,000,000,000
Eastern Orthodox Church* 225,000,000
Jinja Honcho* 83,000,000
Anglican Communion* 77,000,000
Assemblies of God* 50,000,000
Ethiopian Orthodox Church 35,000,000
Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD)* 27,400,000
Iglesia ni Cristo (based in the Philippines) 27,000,000
Sikhism 23,000,000
Juche (North Korea) 19,000,000
Seventh-day Adventist Church 16,811,519
Jehovah's Witnesses** 16,500,000
Southern Baptist Convention* 16,000,000
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 12,275,822
United Methodist Church* 11,708,887
Soka Gakkai 11,000,000
New Apostolic Church 10,260,000
Ahmadiyya * 10,000,000
Veerashaivas (Lingayats) 10,000,000
Coptic Orthodox 10,000,000
Sathya Sai Baba 10,000,000
Church of Uganda 8,000,000
Choge Buddhism 8,000,000
Church of Sweden 7,143,292
Church of God in Christ 6,500,000
Kimbanguist Church 6,500,000
Bahai World Faith 6,000,000
Universal Church of the Kingdom of God
(Igreja Universal do Reino de Deus) 6,000,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 5,500,000
China Christian Council 5,000,000
Rissho Koseikai 5,000,000
Swaminarayanism 5,000,000
Aglipayan Church 4,500,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland 4,400,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark 4,350,000
Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) 4,000,000
Kale Heywet (SIM, Ethiopia) 4,000,000
Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran) 3,850,000
Church of South India 3,800,000
Armenian Apostolic Church 3,500,000
Christian Congregation (Brazil) 3,120,000
National Baptist Convention of America 3,106,000
"God is Love" Pentecostal Church (Igreja Pentecostal "Deus e Amo") 3,000,000
Zion Christian Church (South Africa) 3,000,000
Cao Dai 3,000,000
Ch'ondogyo 3,000,000
Church of the Lord Aladura 3,000,000
Reiyukai 3,000,000
United Church of Canada 3,000,000
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel 2,863,232
Balinese Hinduism 2,800,000
Christian and Missionary Alliance 2,644,296
Netherlands Reformed Church (NHK) 2,600,000
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod 2,582,440
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 2,560,201
Protestant Christian Batak Church
(Huria Kristen Batak Protestan -- HKBP, Indonesia) 2,500,000
Evangelical Churches of West Africa 2,500,000
Progressive National Baptist Convention 2,500,000
Tenrikyo 2,350,000
United Pentecostal Church International 2,300,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania 2,200,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Haptong) 2,094,338
Africa Inland Church (Kenya) 2,000,000
Brazil for Christ 2,000,000
Churches of Christ 2,000,000
Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar 2,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church ("Jacobite") 2,000,000
Radhasoami 2,000,000
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism 2,000,000
True (Old Calendar) Orthodox Church of Greece 2,000,000
Reformed Church in Hungary 2,000,000
American Muslim Society 2,000,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Tonghap) 1,660,248
Council of Baptist Churches of NE India 1,630,000
Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus 1,625,994
Baptist Bible Fellowship International 1,600,000
Salvation Army 1,500,000
Myanmar Baptist Convention 1,500,000
Malagasy Lutheran Church (Madagascar) 1,500,000
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. 1,455,855
Brazilian Baptist Convention 1,440,000
Dutch Reformed Church (NGK; South Africa) 1,403,180
Alawi 1,400,000
Council of Evangelical Methodist Churches
of Latin America and the Caribbean 1,400,000
Uniting Church in Australia 1,386,000
United Church of Christ 1,377,320
Christ Apostolic Church (Nigeria) 1,300,000
Union of American Hebrew Congregations (Reform) 1,300,000
Pentecostal Church of Indonesia 1,280,000
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church 1,252,369
Church of Central Africa, Presbyterian (CCAP; Malawi) 1,250,000
Nigerian Baptist Convention 1,250,000
Church of the Nazarene 1,216,657
African Methodist Episcopal Church 1,200,000
Divine Light Mission 1,200,000
Church of God Miss. Intl. (Nigeria) 1,200,000
British Methodist Church 1,200,000
Church of North India 1,125,000
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ 1,070,000
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 1,043,943
United Orthodox Jewish Congregation of America 1,043,943
Lott Carey Baptist Foreign Mission Convention, USA 1,050,000
Evangelical Church of the Lutheran Confession in Brazil 1,000,000
ISKCON 1,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church of Malabar (Mar Thoma) 1,000,000
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. 1,000,000
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World 1,000,000
PL Kyodan 1,000,000
Sekai Kyuseikyo 1,000,000
Church of Christ in Nigeria 1,000,000
Unity Church 1,000,000
Igreja Evangelica Pentecostal (Brazil) 1,000,000
Church of Scotland 1,000,000
Sukyo Mahikari 1,000,000
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      07-22-2008, 03:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
In the article "Sex slave fears she'll be forced back to rape city" the victim said
"I will never be OK," she said, adding that she believes God kept her alive for a reason.
Likely this testimony could be documented better than this one sentence.

Weren't you and e90im from Bosnia? Perhaps I jumped to a conclusion thinking these articles would mean something to you.
Werent you from Canada or something in that direction???

Learn Geography buddy, learn the facts...
You sound like the old senile Czechoslovakia dude...and some ignorant people here that think that was just a small error...

Where did you get the idea that e90im and I are from the same region?

Those articles mean to me the same as articles I have seen in Asia depicting US Marines as rapists and murderers in Iraq...propaganda... Not that it did not happen on all sides, but associating the whole nation to those who did unthinkable is plain stupid...

You should know better...
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      07-22-2008, 03:42 PM   #16
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North Korea - atheism

At the end of World War II, the US and the Soviet Union agreed that US troops would accept the surrender of Japanese forces south of the 38th parallel and the Soviet Union would do so in the north.

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea was established... Communist North Korean forces invaded South Korea in 1950. US and other UN forces intervened to defend the South and Chinese forces intervened on behalf of the North.

Religions: Buddhism and Confucianism, some Christianity and syncretic Chondogyo
note: autonomous religious activities now almost nonexistent; government-sponsored religious groups exist to provide illusion of religious freedom.


International Religious Freedom Report 2006

Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor

Genuine religious freedom does not exist.

The KINU 2006 White Paper on Human Rights in North Korea indicated that the regime utilizes authorized religious entities for external propaganda and political purposes and that citizens are strictly barred from entering their places of worship. Ordinary citizens consider such sites to be primarily "sightseeing spots for foreigners." KINU also concluded that the lack of churches or religious facilities in the provinces indicates that ordinary citizens still do not enjoy religious freedom.
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      07-22-2008, 03:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Werent you from Canada or something in that direction???

Learn Geography buddy, learn the facts...
You sound like the old senile Czechoslovakia dude...and some ignorant people here that think that was just a small error...

Where did you get the idea that e90im and I are from the same region?

Those articles mean to me the same as articles I have seen in Asia depicting US Marines as rapists and murderers in Iraq...propaganda... Not that it did not happen on all sides, but associating the whole nation to those who did unthinkable is plain stupid...

You should know better...
What country are you from? Perhaps I figured e90im was from the same place as you because you both have such nutty ideas.

How does your country show on the religious scale? And on the persecutions scale?
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      07-22-2008, 03:56 PM   #18
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Atheism as religion. The case of North Korea. It's an interesting article.
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      07-22-2008, 04:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post

F^&king freedom fries eating, slant eye euro trash moth&^*fu((kers.......
wow.....
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      07-22-2008, 06:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
that's not true. the most faithful people i know became christians in their adult lives.
I agree with you and Couch that the most devout are converts, but converts make up a very small percentage of any religious group. As you pointed out, the least devout members are those that were brought up in the faith. Couch even acknowledges that he wouldn't be an active practioner of his religion if he hadn't hit a rough patch.

If you removed everyone except adult converts from every religion, they'd all drop to about the level of store-front churches and wacko cults. They'd be even smaller if you also removed the emotionally damaged of the adult converts, who might have been equally helped by counseling or rehab.

Religious institutions today mostly continue via political power and sheer inertia.

Don't take that to mean I'm anti-religion. I was brought up in the church and don't see it as particularly bad. Mostly, see religion as out-dated. From a sociological perpective, it's a primitive form of government, one the human race has outgrown.
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      07-22-2008, 07:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
What country are you from? Perhaps I figured e90im was from the same place as you because you both have such nutty ideas.

How does your country show on the religious scale? And on the persecutions scale?
I am an American...didn't you know that?
THe all mighty USA is my country...

However, I also have the citizenship of Serbia...very different from Bosnia...
People in Yugoslavia were not allowed to express their religious beliefs from 1945-1980 (and a few years after that), under Tito's leadership. The system was a typical combination of "free" Socialism Dictatorship, if you can call it that way. We were allowed to travel unlike other Eastern European countries, we did not depend on USSR, and we were economically fairly stable...
In 1980 Tito died and shit hit the fan...specifically in 1991...
Of course, some Serbs did follow religious customs, like my grandma for example, but you were not encouraged to freely promote religion.
After Tito's reign, Serbs "re-discovered" their Orthodox roots and religion and majority of the country became very much "religious" and into the customs...
I, for example did not, but I do not condemn or oppose those who follow their religious customs... Just do not try to teach me any of those unless you can prove things to me...
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      07-22-2008, 07:26 PM   #22
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F^&king freedom fries eating, slant eye euro trash moth&^*fu((kers.......
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