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      07-16-2008, 10:30 PM   #23
Dascamel
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If it is an ABS or related issue with safety, in theory it could just be a software adjustment... cross your fingers and hopefully they can resolve it.
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      07-16-2008, 10:43 PM   #24
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Great report, thanks for the information. I guess I just have not pushed hard enough on my canyon runs yet to experience this (I have pushed pretty hard). Do report this to your dealer and insist that they report it to BMW (as it is very likely they will be unable to reproduce the issue).

bmwwr250f: Good explanation, sounds like you are on track but also you must admit you are doing a fair amount of speculation here. Your explanation does not account for why this seems to occur only on one particular downshift.

enigma: Pretty sure Mantis is practicing his sarcasm, not trolling. We beat him up pretty bad about needed to use and understand sarcasm and he definitely got it.
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      07-16-2008, 11:20 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Great report, thanks for the information. I guess I just have not pushed hard enough on my canyon runs yet to experience this (I have pushed pretty hard). Do report this to your dealer and insist that they report it to BMW (as it is very likely they will be unable to reproduce the issue).
Swamp

I never experienced it myself on the road either, but then again I have never been trying to brake at 120mph from 100 yards away from a hairpin turn on the road

I'm not sure I buy the explanation by bmwwr250f either. I mean, you can do whatever you want in a manual, including non rev matched downshifts which can upset the car. You would think that an M-Car, supposedly driven by enthusiasts would allow a downshift when the computer can rev match more perfectly than any human. Even if they restricted it on say, s1-s4, but allowed it in situations of s5/s6 or dsc off then that would be ok.

Will definitely be reporting it to dealer and trying to get an explanation.

Mick
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      07-16-2008, 11:47 PM   #26
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sarcasim or not - when you try to downshift, and brake hard and late - a 6MT will not tell you NO. you the driver are in control , not the computer. LOL!
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      07-17-2008, 02:35 PM   #27
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sarcasim or not - when you try to downshift, and brake hard and late - a 6MT will not tell you NO. you the driver are in control , not the computer. LOL!
I have always said M-DCT is not perfect. Just darn close! This is simply another example. The big questions are 1. Is it by intent/design and 2. Will it be corrected with a simple software update.
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      07-17-2008, 03:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by bmwwr250f View Post
This is part of the dct control units processing. it takes into account lateral, longitudinal acceleration sensors, engine speed, transmission gear selection, to determine if the downshift will cause uncontrolled load reversal. this could cause significant yaw control loss of the rear axle resulting in a spin out loss of control. the car was designed for the masses with varying degrees of driving skill, that may limit it when pushed to the extreme edge of performance for the true racer.
Do you have fact about this? I tracked my car at Alastaro circuit, Finland just couple days ago. Run-in period was not over, so rpm was below 5500 all the time. Fastest speeds I could make was around 170 km/h at 5th gear. Then some braking and downshift...NO. The gearbox didn't allow me to downshift. At first I thougt it was just too soft handling, but I really concentrated to pull flap and again the same appeared during the session all the time. I thought this was just due to run-in settings, but strange if this applies to other cars also. After clearing the turn, gearbox worked well and downshifted, but several seconds later that expected. Upshifts succeeded every time.

Anyway, I'm still really impressed with M-DCT. I could never opt manual over my car's DCT. M3 is my daily driver summertime and new gearbox improves it's capabilities more than I can describe now...manual is not bad since the car is great itself, but M-DCT in daily use is still another story...
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      07-17-2008, 03:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I have always said M-DCT is not perfect. Just darn close! This is simply another example. The big questions are 1. Is it by intent/design and 2. Will it be corrected with a simple software update.
1) probably not
2) hope so
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      07-17-2008, 04:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
Do you have fact about this? I tracked my car at Alastaro circuit, Finland just couple days ago. Run-in period was not over, so rpm was below 5500 all the time. Fastest speeds I could make was around 170 km/h at 5th gear. Then some braking and downshift...NO. The gearbox didn't allow me to downshift. At first I thougt it was just too soft handling, but I really concentrated to pull flap and again the same appeared during the session all the time. I thought this was just due to run-in settings, but strange if this applies to other cars also. After clearing the turn, gearbox worked well and downshifted, but several seconds later that expected. Upshifts succeeded every time.

Anyway, I'm still really impressed with M-DCT. I could never opt manual over my car's DCT. M3 is my daily driver summertime and new gearbox improves it's capabilities more than I can describe now...manual is not bad since the car is great itself, but M-DCT in daily use is still another story...
Glad you mentioned that........I forgot to mention it but experienced the same, i.e. tried to select the gear, car wouldnt do it, but a couple of seconds later when coasting through a slow turn in 4th it would all of a sudden go down to 2nd.

Mick
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      07-17-2008, 05:18 PM   #31
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Stop trolling around Mantis...
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It does suck. I would advise against buying one
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Care to elaborate why? Is it this downshifting issue or something else?
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He and Mantis are just trolling. Report the post and move on. The mods really need to crack down on this stuff.
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Gearbox jealousy no doubt
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Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
sarcasim or not - when you try to downshift, and brake hard and late - a 6MT will not tell you NO. you the driver are in control , not the computer. LOL!
i was just fucking around out of boredom and tradition that some 6MTer has to come and say the shit i said.

Sayemthree: dude u cant be serious right?? ur not starting a new 6MT vs. DCT. please have mercy on swamp2, his hands hurt from typing the same thing over and over

i suggest that there should be a new sub-forum for MDCT and that 6MTers are automatically excluded from it and cant even see it
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      07-17-2008, 11:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I have always said M-DCT is not perfect. Just darn close! This is simply another example. The big questions are 1. Is it by intent/design and 2. Will it be corrected with a simple software update.

1. probably the computer is trying to make you safe and protect the drivetrain.
2. unlikley - when has BMW ever admitted they made a mistake - rarely
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      07-17-2008, 11:44 PM   #33
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this is what people still do not understand!! DCT is much faster than anything IF IT GUESSES THE RIGHT GEAR. IF. IF. and another IF. now software determines IF it is the right gear, software has those things called bugs and defects that can and will reflect on the way the transmission will act.
u guys chose to jump into the DCT bandwagon kinda early, not a bad thing, but u guys should expect it to not function as advertised.

i dont know if there's nerds like me on here, but this is how i see it: it's like microsoft advertising for a product with 10 features. the first release will have none of the features, none, nada. after the 3rd version of it u'll start seeing some of the features, before the product is killed after like 20 years you will see about 8 out of 10 features.

that's how i see MDCT, except THANKFULLY it's not developed by microsoft
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      07-18-2008, 02:12 AM   #34
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no - its not by Microsoft- thats why they will have 5 of the 10 features in the first few year!!!!!!!!
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      07-18-2008, 04:13 AM   #35
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Quote:
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u guys chose to jump into the DCT bandwagon kinda early, not a bad thing, but u guys should expect it to not function as advertised.
I was fully aware that DCT might have early development problems and didn't expect 100% functionality. Still, 2-3 seconds is bit too much time to downshift after braking from 160 km/h to 50 km/h? I don't think it's about guessing a wrong gear alone..sounds more like this sensor-based explanation when the car is trying to avoid "unexpected" behavior due too rought downshift.

Initial run-in is now over and first service done. I'll start to adjust all features and try to find proper settings.
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      07-18-2008, 04:18 AM   #36
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Superb write-up Mick! Can' wait to take mine out on the track!

Mine's a manual by the way
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      07-18-2008, 09:40 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Great report, thanks for the information. I guess I just have not pushed hard enough on my canyon runs yet to experience this (I have pushed pretty hard). Do report this to your dealer and insist that they report it to BMW (as it is very likely they will be unable to reproduce the issue)...
Swamp, I'm dead serious here. If you ever experience this same problem while on the street, just pull over, shut 'er down, catch your breath, and consider your life. They're talking very close to ten-tenths here - with safe-as-possible runoff areas designed to minimize damage and injuries, no telephone poles, rock formations or mailboxes next to the track, ambulance/medical help present and plenty of people around to pry you out of the car should you wad it up.

Canyon runs are for eight-tenths grins.

I know you know this, but you are a nut for research.

Bruce
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      07-18-2008, 01:51 PM   #38
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Canyon runs are for eight-tenths grins.
Right with you Bruce, thanks! 8/10, no more!
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      07-18-2008, 03:19 PM   #39
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overshoot the exit on a track and your in some gravel - on a canyon road - it could be a long way dooooooown.

I will have my MT on the track tomoorow - first time. big grin
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      07-18-2008, 03:38 PM   #40
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DCT is wonderful, I was just being sarcastic
So, are you being sarcastic now?
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      07-18-2008, 05:02 PM   #41
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So, are you being sarcastic now?
Nope, I love my DCT. Love it so much I just sold my E92 6MT M3 Coupe & E60 SMG M5
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      07-18-2008, 09:09 PM   #42
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Nope, I love my DCT. Love it so much I just sold my E92 6MT M3 Coupe & E60 SMG M5
Well that makes a statement. Impressive.
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      07-18-2008, 09:49 PM   #43
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Well that makes a statement. Impressive.
Also note that most of the people bashing the system are those that have club 6MT banners.
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      07-18-2008, 10:28 PM   #44
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I still love me a 6 Speed, but not full time anymore.
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