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      08-28-2008, 06:07 PM   #45
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Sorry guys,
But with the new performance package the C63 can likely beat the M3 around the track.
It already blows it away in a straight line.
It looks way better inside and out, and is way more fun to drive in the city.
I drove both.
I would encourage all of you to take a serious look at the C63 and I bet you will be asking for you're deposit back on the M3.
For a couple of grand you can tune the engine up to over 520 hp.
C63 looks way more flamboyant and sexier. No question.
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      08-28-2008, 06:40 PM   #46
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Sorry guys,
But with the new performance package the C63 can likely beat the M3 around the track.
It already blows it away in a straight line.
It looks way better inside and out, and is way more fun to drive in the city.
I drove both.
I would encourage all of you to take a serious look at the C63 and I bet you will be asking for you're deposit back on the M3.
For a couple of grand you can tune the engine up to over 520 hp.
C63 looks way more flamboyant and sexier. No question.
When you can post any video footage of a C63 (performance package or not) beating an M3 around a track, I'll eat my words. From the videos I've seen, the ESP interferes too much with the driving, no matter which mode it's in, but when it's turned off, it's all over the place. The C63 is no doubt faster on the straights, but loses every race I've seen with the M3 in the corners. One of the local dealers has one in stock, and I am thinking about trying to take it for a test drive to draw my own conclusions.

Looks are obviously subjective. I saw my first C63 last week (2 on the same day), and realized why some people have said that it looks just like the regular C-class and others have said that it looks over-done. That sounds contradictory until you see one in person. When I first saw the C63 in a restaurant parking lot, I didn't even notice it was anything special until the second glance. After a closer inspection, it still looks just like the regular C-class, but with a boy-racer aftermarket bumper and the sweet quad pipes in back.

That said, it is much improved over the previous generation, and the looks are definitely growing on me. Glad you're so happy with your car.

EDIT: A local guy here in Houston said that the stiff suspension on the C63 makes it pretty rough as a DD on the crappy Houston roads. What are your thoughts on that?
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      08-28-2008, 07:00 PM   #47
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When you can post any video footage of a C63 (performance package or not) beating an M3 around a track, I'll eat my words. From the videos I've seen, the ESP interferes too much with the driving, no matter which mode it's in, but when it's turned off, it's all over the place. The C63 is no doubt faster on the straights, but loses every race I've seen with the M3 in the corners. One of the local dealers has one in stock, and I am thinking about trying to take it for a test drive to draw my own conclusions.

Looks are obviously subjective. I saw my first C63 last week (2 on the same day), and realized why some people have said that it looks just like the regular C-class and others have said that it looks over-done. That sounds contradictory until you see one in person. When I first saw the C63 in a restaurant parking lot, I didn't even notice it was anything special until the second glance. After a closer inspection, it still looks just like the regular C-class, but with a boy-racer aftermarket bumper and the sweet quad pipes in back.

That said, it is much improved over the previous generation, and the looks are definitely growing on me. Glad you're so happy with your car.

EDIT: A local guy here in Houston said that the stiff suspension on the C63 makes it pretty rough as a DD on the crappy Houston roads. What are your thoughts on that?
You are right. Looks are subjective, however IMO the C63 stands out more than the M3 four door.

As far as the stiff suspension goes, it all depends what you are used to. In no way IMO is the suspension too stiff to be you're daily driver.

I went from a SC 400 to the C63 and the suspension feels similar. I will say it is stiffer than the M3.

All tests around the track were with the C63 without the performance package, and they weren't that far off. With the performance package I can't believe there would be much of a difference.

Unless you are on a track you can't possibly push the car to where you will notice a difference.

I am looking forward to when you test the C63, cause let me tell you I have always been a bigger fan of bimmers until I test drove the C63. Very, Very fun car. BTW The interior- No comparison. Not a fan of 3 series interiors.

The C63 is much improved over the regular C class as far as interiors go.

M3 a good car, however it is no longer the undisputed king. Now it is a matter of taste and IMO the C63 is the one to own.
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      08-28-2008, 07:17 PM   #48
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You are right. Looks are subjective, however IMO the C63 stands out more than the M3 four door.

As far as the stiff suspension goes, it all depends what you are used to. In no way IMO is the suspension too stiff to be you're daily driver.

I went from a SC 400 to the C63 and the suspension feels similar. I will say it is stiffer than the M3.

All tests around the track were with the C63 without the performance package, and they weren't that far off. With the performance package I can't believe there would be much of a difference.

Unless you are on a track you can't possibly push the car to where you will notice a difference.

I am looking forward to when you test the C63, cause let me tell you I have always been a bigger fan of bimmers until I test drove the C63. Very, Very fun car. BTW The interior- No comparison. Not a fan of 3 series interiors.

The C63 is much improved over the regular C class as far as interiors go.

M3 a good car, however it is no longer the undisputed king. Now it is a matter of taste and IMO the C63 is the one to own.
I am the same way, I always bought BMW, till the C63 came out.
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      08-28-2008, 07:25 PM   #49
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You are right. Looks are subjective, however IMO the C63 stands out more than the M3 four door.

As far as the stiff suspension goes, it all depends what you are used to. In no way IMO is the suspension too stiff to be you're daily driver.

I went from a SC 400 to the C63 and the suspension feels similar. I will say it is stiffer than the M3.

All tests around the track were with the C63 without the performance package, and they weren't that far off. With the performance package I can't believe there would be much of a difference.

Unless you are on a track you can't possibly push the car to where you will notice a difference.

I am looking forward to when you test the C63, cause let me tell you I have always been a bigger fan of bimmers until I test drove the C63. Very, Very fun car. BTW The interior- No comparison. Not a fan of 3 series interiors.

The C63 is much improved over the regular C class as far as interiors go.

M3 a good car, however it is no longer the undisputed king. Now it is a matter of taste and IMO the C63 is the one to own.
I definitely agree that there is a lot of great competition for the M3 now, especially the C63 and possibly the upcoming CTS-V and CTC-V.

Good to hear about the suspension. A stiff suspension doesn't bother me, but my wife would probably give me some grief. She was impressed that the M3 could handle so well, but had a relatively soft ride.

Hasn't the performance package been offered all along? If so, how do you know it wasn't included on the cars that have been in the various track tests? And I think the biggest problem in the videos I saw was the ESP. Even in sport mode, it cut in way too early. When they turned it off, it basically turned into a drifting competition. The performance package, with the improved brakes, stiffer front springs, and even the LSD in the rear may help a little.

I'll reserve judgment on the interior until I sit in one. IMO, it's hard to evaluate an interior from photographs. It has to be sat in, touched, and seen in real life. I hear the C63's seats are amazing. I have to admit that I've actually always liked the spartan note to the 3 series interior. Simple, clean lines, comfortable, ergonomical, and not pretentious.

I "need" a coupe, so it's still M3 all the way for me, but I'm excited to test out the competition and will certainly keep an open mind.
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      08-28-2008, 07:49 PM   #50
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I definitely agree that there is a lot of great competition for the M3 now, especially the C63 and possibly the upcoming CTS-V and CTC-V.

Good to hear about the suspension. A stiff suspension doesn't bother me, but my wife would probably give me some grief. She was impressed that the M3 could handle so well, but had a relatively soft ride.

Hasn't the performance package been offered all along? If so, how do you know it wasn't included on the cars that have been in the various track tests? And I think the biggest problem in the videos I saw was the ESP. Even in sport mode, it cut in way too early. When they turned it off, it basically turned into a drifting competition. The performance package, with the improved brakes, stiffer front springs, and even the LSD in the rear may help a little.

I'll reserve judgment on the interior until I sit in one. IMO, it's hard to evaluate an interior from photographs. It has to be sat in, touched, and seen in real life. I hear the C63's seats are amazing. I have to admit that I've actually always liked the spartan note to the 3 series interior. Simple, clean lines, comfortable, ergonomical, and not pretentious.

I "need" a coupe, so it's still M3 all the way for me, but I'm excited to test out the competition and will certainly keep an open mind.
The performance package is not available until summer 2008.

I always wanted a couple too, as I test drove the S5 and M3 Coupe. C63 was too much to pass up.

My next car however could be the RS5. We shall see.
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      08-28-2008, 08:32 PM   #51
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The performance package is not available until summer 2008.

I always wanted a couple too, as I test drove the S5 and M3 Coupe. C63 was too much to pass up.

My next car however could be the RS5. We shall see.
I have a strong feeling that the RS5 will be one sexy beast. Problem is, it won't be available for another 18 months most likely. I may put my name down on the list for one though...
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      08-29-2008, 09:39 AM   #52
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C63 looks way more flamboyant and sexier. No question.
How is that an advantage? I don't want a performance car that looks flamboyant. In fact, I don't really want anything that looks flamboyant.

The other problem with the Mercedes is that the convertible costs $90k and the coupe (Black Series only in us) cost $140k. So for anyone who does not want a sedan, the M3 is the easy choice. That said, I am getting a sedan, but personally I love a high revving motor so if in fact the C63 is faster, oh well, it doesn't mean I will like to drive it more.
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      08-29-2008, 11:55 PM   #53
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Driven and sat in both as passengers. The C63's interior is a lot more spacious and has better features overall. The navigation/DVD/voice command system alone is years beyond the BMW system in ease of use and audio/visual quality. It would be very hard to beat for the price. The M3 does handle better and comes with much better seats, but 90% of the people that own either/or will only bump into each other on the highway and would not be able operate these two pieces of arts no where near their limits. Overall driving around town I would take the C63. The torque is there at all times and is very smooth. If you plan on tracking your car once in a while, M3 hands down. Plus the free service with the BMW makes it worth it. While I save money to be able to afford one of these beasts some day I will just stick to my 335
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      08-30-2008, 12:24 AM   #54
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Driven and sat in both as passengers. The C63's interior is a lot more spacious and has better features overall. The navigation/DVD/voice command system alone is years beyond the BMW system in ease of use and audio/visual quality. It would be very hard to beat for the price. The M3 does handle better and comes with much better seats, but 90% of the people that own either/or will only bump into each other on the highway and would not be able operate these two pieces of arts no where near their limits. Overall driving around town I would take the C63. The torque is there at all times and is very smooth. If you plan on tracking your car once in a while, M3 hands down. Plus the free service with the BMW makes it worth it. While I save money to be able to afford one of these beasts some day I will just stick to my 335
Agreed with most of this, but in no way does the M3 have better seats.
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      09-10-2008, 01:36 PM   #55
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my man let me take you for a ride in my car. it would make the hair in the back of your neck stand up. dont get me wrong to all the other ppl i was ganna get the e92 m3. but for the price it just to much. i love the look and the handeling but you dont understand somethis about this c63 amg. this car is a beast. if i want i can spin 1.2.3 gear. light up the whole block with smoke. and also its a lil faster then a m6. dont no about m3 yet b/c dint race one but ill deff let you no how that goes.
there's a bunch of NJers with M3's man. u guys should hook up. i saw ur thread
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      09-10-2008, 02:10 PM   #56
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The lack of a traditional manual transmission would rule out the Mercedes for me. The transmission is one option that I'm not willing to compromise.
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      09-10-2008, 02:16 PM   #57
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I have driven both and on e of my best friends has the C63 AMG with the sports pack.

For me the plus points of the C63 :

Mid range torque and relentless grunt (reminds me of a tunes e39M5)
Exhaust noise on full throttle

Negative points

Chassis feels like a tweeked saloon, nose heavy and kept in check by well modified suspension
Ride is a little 'crashy' at the front
balance of the chassis is okay but not great

Overall it lacks the finess of the M3 and is far less well balanced it's a different machine. The M feels ground up engineered. The C63 has that sledgehammer saloon feel, that makes for a great road car. But on the 'ring' the difference is chalk and cheese.

The difference is engineering balance vs grunt
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      09-10-2008, 04:18 PM   #58
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Points made about looks and seat feel are 100% personal. No one has the exact same ass, sorry.

I personally think the M3 looks better than the C63. It's lines just run smoother. I'll pass on the flamboyance.

Basically it comes down to, C63 is faster in a straight line, M3 is more fun to take in the turns. Whichever type of person you are is probably what will depict what you want. My preference is for the steering precision that the M3 offers. Track or not, I just love taking turns. Straight line speed gets boring. Especially in a C63. You just plant your foot and go.

However, which is faster is almost irrelevant for a daily driver car. They both have ample power to get the job done. The point made about boosting up the C63 is out of place as well. If you wanted a car with 500+hp. Just buy one in the first place, then you'll also get a warranty to go with it. Simple mods are ok to distinguish yourself among the thousands of these cars that will be made over the years but any type of major rebuild isn't what these cars are marketed for.

Lastly, as for room in the cabin I don't really want a wide open dash with alot of room. I want things to be in reach and snug. I'm driving the car, its an event not just a waiting room.
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      09-10-2008, 04:35 PM   #59
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Points made about looks and seat feel are 100% personal. No one has the exact same ass, sorry.

I personally think the M3 looks better than the C63. It's lines just run smoother. I'll pass on the flamboyance.

Basically it comes down to, C63 is faster in a straight line, M3 is more fun to take in the turns. Whichever type of person you are is probably what will depict what you want. My preference is for the steering precision that the M3 offers. Track or not, I just love taking turns. Straight line speed gets boring. Especially in a C63. You just plant your foot and go.

However, which is faster is almost irrelevant for a daily driver car. They both have ample power to get the job done. The point made about boosting up the C63 is out of place as well. If you wanted a car with 500+hp. Just buy one in the first place, then you'll also get a warranty to go with it. Simple mods are ok to distinguish yourself among the thousands of these cars that will be made over the years but any type of major rebuild isn't what these cars are marketed for.

Lastly, as for room in the cabin I don't really want a wide open dash with alot of room. I want things to be in reach and snug. I'm driving the car, its an event not just a waiting room.
Actually the C63 is not much faster than the M3 coupe. I ran a coupe a couple weeks ago (0-80) and baaaaaarely edged it out. Granted I had a terrible start with tons of wheel spin, but don't give the C63 too much credit. The M3 is also very quick off the line.
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      09-10-2008, 06:34 PM   #60
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Actually the C63 is not much faster than the M3 coupe. I ran a coupe a couple weeks ago (0-80) and baaaaaarely edged it out. Granted I had a terrible start with tons of wheel spin, but don't give the C63 too much credit. The M3 is also very quick off the line.
I appreciate your neutral stance about both cars. And the personal aspect that some people use of racing against someone is a topic totally lost on me. I think its useless and dumb. At a track, there is no question which is best. In a straight line? Who really cares. Any serious Straight line wins on the street or even a back alley for that matter are like winning a Warcraft tournament. Even if you win, your still a loser. And its equally inconsequential. All that really matters at this point is your own mental conception of your car and how much you enjoy it. If a C63 owner came up to me and tried to rub his straight line edge in my face, my reply would be, "I care, really I do. But only a little bit." And its the truth because the M3 is where my mental pH is residing. Anyone with a C63 is the same way, with their mental pH on the Merc. Its what makes them content and happy.

Anyways, I wasn't trying to give credit or discredit either car. The point is more that these are road going cars, and they are both good. If you really want to get technical with numbers from the pros then the situation I mentioned above is accurate. But its almost a moot point since these cars will spend more than 70% of the time as daily drivers.

So the determining factor between either needs to be whichever you personally like. And no one here can nor should have the right to make that decision for you. If they can, you probably don't deserve to have one in the first place.

If you are a pro driver looking to buy your next race car, why are you even reading here? The choice of the best track car is obvious. And who would professional drag a car like either of these? Not even worth addressing.
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      09-10-2008, 06:42 PM   #61
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Actually the C63 is not much faster than the M3 coupe. I ran a coupe a couple weeks ago (0-80) and baaaaaarely edged it out. Granted I had a terrible start with tons of wheel spin, but don't give the C63 too much credit. The M3 is also very quick off the line.
Nice to see a humble C63'er. Most post made by actual C63 owners (I state actual because most trolls state what they wish they had but don't actually own) are so defensive it is as though you just slept with their wife or something. Love both cars and each are awesome in their own right. I would own either of these cars but decided to chose the M this time, maybe next time I will try the C. Hell by then there will be bigger and better! Can't wait!
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      09-10-2008, 09:05 PM   #62
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Nice to see a humble C63'er. Most post made by actual C63 owners (I state actual because most trolls state what they wish they had but don't actually own) are so defensive it is as though you just slept with their wife or something. Love both cars and each are awesome in their own right. I would own either of these cars but decided to chose the M this time, maybe next time I will try the C. Hell by then there will be bigger and better! Can't wait!
I feel the same way. I've owned two BMW's before, and loved them. I test drove the M3 and loved it.

The reason I chose the c63 was because I simply wanted to try something different. Most people act as if this is the last car they'll ever buy, therefore it's a life and death decision. Not me. Who knows...maybe I'll buy and M3 in a couple years when the DCT problems are ironed out.
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      09-15-2008, 12:42 AM   #63
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I have both AMG CLK 5.5 vert & M3 DTC vert. To bring AMG up to speed I had to remap the engine, give it thermal intakes, quad exhaust (approx 400hp), 40% AMG locker diff with bigger axles, 19" wheels, DTM Spoiler and also had to put Brabus lowering springs in because the AMG spring made the car sit to high.

The M3 has on order eisenmann race exhaust & DTM spoiler and I option up the M3 plus 19" wheels.

The torque of the Merc is better than the M3 but the suspension of the AMG is no where near as good.

The AMG is a prettier car if you wish to use those terms and yes I know your talking about a C63 but I am comparing verts against verts or simply Mercs against BMW.

The AMG generally seems to have a flashier finish, good seats, good brakes but they lack good suspension and there traction control (ESP) is terrible, that why you need to swap out the diff because there motors develope so much torque.

The M3 is a better overall sports car that suits the younger driver or if I re-pharse that, it makes for a younger driver. It seems to me the AMG is aimed at a different market to that of the M3 buyer or that may be just here in Australia.

I push the M3 harder than the AMG

Thats my $0.02
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      09-15-2008, 01:01 AM   #64
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Big Wing Ftl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      09-15-2008, 01:14 AM   #65
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Thats the official AMG DTM spoiler on both there DTM CLK road cars, coupe & convertible. They are near impossible to get.

It's not much difference in size to the BMW Club Sport dtm type spoiler on the e46 when it came out.
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      09-15-2008, 01:35 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by stockwizard View Post
You are right. Looks are subjective, however IMO the C63 stands out more than the M3 four door.
I tend to agee. The C63 looks realy good in white. Found these pics over on mymbonline, hope the owner doesn't mind me posting them.
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