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      07-11-2008, 01:51 PM   #23
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That Nissan brought the milkshake but I'm still not drinking it... yet.
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      07-11-2008, 04:47 PM   #24
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Underpromise and overdeliver.

The GT-R has always been underrated. Would you seriously complain if you got more power than you paid for?


GTR always underrated? whats your experience? u must know ALOT


the M3 has always had less then stellar performance for the money.....
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      07-11-2008, 04:51 PM   #25
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the car will think its spinning the rear tires on the dyno and will shift power to the front....

the loss is more then 15%.....


the car feels 550 ish.....



also.. alot of tests were done recently in Cali on 91 POS octane..... the ecu kills the timing and the car makes much less hp....
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      07-11-2008, 04:51 PM   #26
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GTR always underrated? whats your experience? u must know ALOT


the M3 has always had less then stellar performance for the money.....
The second statement below really destroys your credibility. Perhaps you haven't noticed but the M3 is a legendary car and has been in every model. It is never the least expensive nor the top dog performer but has always been very high on the bang for the buck. Did you forget the magazine award to the E36 M3 for best handling car regardless of price. Glad you have a less than stellar performer on order as well.
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      07-11-2008, 04:53 PM   #27
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The second statement below really destroys your credibility. Perhaps you haven't noticed but the M3 is a legendary car and has been in every model. It is never the least expensive nor the top dog performer but has always been very high on the bang for the buck. Did you forget the magazine award to the E36 M3 for best handling car regardless of price. Glad you have a less than stellar performer on order as well.
legendary car? lol maybe coz u own one right now
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      07-11-2008, 04:57 PM   #28
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The second statement below really destroys your credibility. Perhaps you haven't noticed but the M3 is a legendary car and has been in every model. It is never the least expensive nor the top dog performer but has always been very high on the bang for the buck. Did you forget the magazine award to the E36 M3 for best handling car regardless of price. Glad you have a less than stellar performer on order as well.
i love the M... thats why i have one coming...

but on pure performance for the price... u hafta admit that the numbers are arnt "legendary"....

in overall feel.. the car is just about perfect.....


i had a E36 M3.. and wasnt totaly thrilled by the handling....
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      07-11-2008, 07:01 PM   #29
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I don't know why anyone cares that the car was underrated. The heart of the matter is: was it underrated ONLY for the cars that Nissan has been testing at the 'Ring? But if this is representative of what we'll be seeing in the US then it will be one heck of a car as all the fanboys are saying. If not, I'm sure it's still pretty fast, but Nissan should come clean and report the correct numbers for the car. I'd hate to pay the $70K ($90K?) and not get what has been hyped.
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      07-11-2008, 08:49 PM   #30
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legendary car? lol maybe coz u own one right now
Head back to BMW history school. You clearly know very little about what M cars achieved back in the E30 and E36 days. It has nothing to do with what car I own now or ones I have owned except for the fact that I am drawn to great cars.

right back at you.
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      07-11-2008, 08:53 PM   #31
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but on pure performance for the price... u hafta admit that the numbers are arnt "legendary"....
The competition has got a lot closer to the M3. As well there are simply many more choices in the car category that BMW and M practically invented. Lastly the entry price has become pretty stiff for an M3. These days it is really tough to touch some of the imports on price to performance especially when you allow yourself to count turbo modding. Nonetheless, when considering the big picture of performance, comfort, luxury, speed and handling FOR CARS IN IT'S CLASS. The M3 is still clearly at the top of the heap. I trust you have read the journalists opinions of the M3 besting the R8, 911 GT3 and GT-R? No it is not faster in a line nor around a track, it is just a better all around car (in their opinions).
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      07-11-2008, 09:00 PM   #32
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Its awd it probably loses more than 15%
Anything less than 15% or even 15%, just doesn't seem possible sadly.
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      07-11-2008, 09:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The competition has got a lot closer to the M3. As well there are simply many more choices in the car category that BMW and M practically invented. Lastly the entry price has become pretty stiff for an M3. These days it is really tough to touch some of the imports on price to performance especially when you allow yourself to count turbo modding. Nonetheless, when considering the big picture of performance, comfort, luxury, speed and handling FOR CARS IN IT'S CLASS. The M3 is still clearly at the top of the heap. I trust you have read the journalists opinions of the M3 besting the R8, 911 GT3 and GT-R? No it is not faster in a line nor around a track, it is just a better all around car (in their opinions).

Right, and that comparison is just as legit as the GTR's hp rating. Please, give me a break, tell me you're kidding right. The M3 is the best in it's class, but to compare it to the GT3 and the R8 is a joke.

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      07-11-2008, 09:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ersin View Post
I don't know why anyone cares that the car was underrated. The heart of the matter is: was it underrated ONLY for the cars that Nissan has been testing at the 'Ring? But if this is representative of what we'll be seeing in the US then it will be one heck of a car as all the fanboys are saying. If not, I'm sure it's still pretty fast, but Nissan should come clean and report the correct numbers for the car. I'd hate to pay the $70K ($90K?) and not get what has been hyped.
Exactly...if anyone thinks they are going to buy a US spec car that will be able to do 7:29 on the 'Ring, they will disappointed....
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      07-11-2008, 10:39 PM   #35
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Exactly...if anyone thinks they are going to buy a US spec car that will be able to do 7:29 on the 'Ring, they will disappointed....
And a 8:05 Ring time.
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      07-11-2008, 11:36 PM   #36
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Because I buy cars based on the 'Ring time. Oh lawdy.
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      07-12-2008, 12:55 AM   #37
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Ring Times are the biggest joke out there.

Far from legit, for any car.
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      07-12-2008, 02:15 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The competition has got a lot closer to the M3. As well there are simply many more choices in the car category that BMW and M practically invented. Lastly the entry price has become pretty stiff for an M3. These days it is really tough to touch some of the imports on price to performance especially when you allow yourself to count turbo modding. Nonetheless, when considering the big picture of performance, comfort, luxury, speed and handling FOR CARS IN IT'S CLASS. The M3 is still clearly at the top of the heap. I trust you have read the journalists opinions of the M3 besting the R8, 911 GT3 and GT-R? No it is not faster in a line nor around a track, it is just a better all around car (in their opinions).



seriously man.... its what you want.... we are all buying an M for performance... is we wernt... then we would be rolling in a 7 series...


i dont need to read what a journalist say about the M... ive driving GT3s.. M3s.. GTRs and the such.... i know what each has to offer....

the M is good because is offers BMW luxury with M performance...

It IS... what IT... IS......



but like you said.. its a better all around car.. for a daily driver...
thats why mine will be exactly that... and my weekend car will be MUCH more of a performer....




but to keep on topic.. a NEW GTR could easily be a daily driver...
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      07-12-2008, 02:19 AM   #39
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Ring times are to each their own.....

now a days... a certain car prevails at the ring....


and easy to drive... big top end speed.... good over the bumps... car... like the GTR.....



many cars would be faster then the GTR at other tracks then the RING.....
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      07-12-2008, 05:48 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The competition has got a lot closer to the M3. As well there are simply many more choices in the car category that BMW and M practically invented. Lastly the entry price has become pretty stiff for an M3. These days it is really tough to touch some of the imports on price to performance especially when you allow yourself to count turbo modding. Nonetheless, when considering the big picture of performance, comfort, luxury, speed and handling FOR CARS IN IT'S CLASS. The M3 is still clearly at the top of the heap. I trust you have read the journalists opinions of the M3 besting the R8, 911 GT3 and GT-R? No it is not faster in a line nor around a track, it is just a better all around car (in their opinions).
Only in the US has the M3 beaten the R8, GT3 or GTR in any test. Why, well that is easy to explain, BMW's M market is the biggest in the US and by
quite some margin so I would reckon they a sweeter to the motoring press in the US than else where.

I am looking forward to my M3 as much as the next person but I do have a grip on reality and the M3 is no R8 beater never mind the other cars listed by you.

BMW's M-Division's finest hour with the E30 M3 and they have for the remaining time tried in vain to get back to those highs but alas it has not happened. So this may be a britter pill to swallow but where as the other manufacturers, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Nissan have been improving with every new model BMW has not and for over 20 years.
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      07-12-2008, 03:10 PM   #41
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footie, gbb:

Look guys, calm down, I don't think the M3 is faster or a better sports car than the GT3, GT-R or Z06 for that matter. The M3 is all about a lot of compromise and it has gone a long way from its original roots as a very track focused production car. You can take magazine tests with a grain of salt or not. We all tend to praise the tests we agree with and minimize the ones we do not agree with. The facts remain that as an ALL AROUND and everyday driver the M3 has unseated some very mighty vehicles and not just in the US. It has done so not because of its raw performance numbers but because of its combination of good manners while still being very fun and rewarding to a skilled driver, while also offering "the finest V8 outside of Maranello". Footie: do recall a German magazine gave the title to the M3 over the GT3 as well (or was it over the 997TT?). Lastly I am not much of an R8 fan at all. The M3 is absolutely neck and neck with it pure performance wise on all but a few select tracks. Not to mention that is gets completely hosed when you factor in price to performance... Those are the facts of M3 vs. R8.

One more "lastly", I guess: gbb: It all comes down to what you consider competitors. As I have stated a million times I don't consider the Z06 and GT-R to be M3 competitors, if YOU do then the M3 is clearly not the fastest in class. However, among the RS4, C63 AMG, IS-F and some various Astons and Jags, I consider the M3 best in class, as does the vast majority of the motoring press.
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      07-12-2008, 03:20 PM   #42
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BMW's M-Division's finest hour with the E30 M3 and they have for the remaining time tried in vain to get back to those highs but alas it has not happened. So this may be a britter pill to swallow but where as the other manufacturers, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Nissan have been improving with every new model BMW has not and for over 20 years.
You are genuinely funny. The M models have not been improved in 20 years. What a joke, are you for real? Sure the brand is evolving and you just can not buy a car like the E30 M3 today. Please tell me that EVERY M3 version has not been the absolute darling of the press and of a great many enthusiasts as well. This is particularly hilarious for you to be buying a car that you think has not improved in 20 years. Consistency, credibility?
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      07-12-2008, 03:23 PM   #43
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Head back to BMW history school. You clearly know very little about what M cars achieved back in the E30 and E36 days. It has nothing to do with what car I own now or ones I have owned except for the fact that I am drawn to great cars.

right back at you.
not arguing that, but "legendary" was a looong stretch. u fixed it now when u said "great" cars.
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      07-12-2008, 03:29 PM   #44
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footie, gbb:

Look guys, calm down, I don't think the M3 is faster or a better sports car than the GT3, GT-R or Z06 for that matter. The M3 is all about a lot of compromise and it has gone a long way from its original roots as a very track focused production car. You can take magazine tests with a grain of salt or not. We all tend to praise the tests we agree with and minimize the ones we do not agree with. The facts remain that as an ALL AROUND and everyday driver the M3 has unseated some very mighty vehicles and not just in the US. It has done so not because of its raw performance numbers but because of its combination of good manners while still being very fun and rewarding to a skilled driver, while also offering "the finest V8 outside of Maranello". Footie: do recall a German magazine gave the title to the M3 over the GT3 as well (or was it over the 997TT?). Lastly I am not much of an R8 fan at all. The M3 is absolutely neck and neck with it pure performance wise on all but a few select tracks. Not to mention that is gets completely hosed when you factor in price to performance... Those are the facts of M3 vs. R8.

One more "lastly", I guess: gbb: It all comes down to what you consider competitors. As I have stated a million times I don't consider the Z06 and GT-R to be M3 competitors, if YOU do then the M3 is clearly not the fastest in class. However, among the RS4, C63 AMG, IS-F and some various Astons and Jags, I consider the M3 best in class, as does the vast majority of the motoring press.

The only track I know of where the R8 and M3 are neck and neck is the ring and the reason is that the R8 has worse aerodynamics and is slower than the M3 after 130mph. In cornering ability the R8 destroys the M3 hands down, but then again it should do when you consider the price difference. The M3 is a great allrounder but I don't see it that much better than either the RS4 or C63, it's approach and execution is different but it's overall ability isn't night and day different, especially on the road. Where the M3 really shines is in it's ability to entertain without the speeds getting too high, very few road cars can hold a powerslide as long as an M3 and is as easy doing so.

I haven't driven a GTR but I have driven an R8 and I can tell you that compared to the M3 it's feel and ability is in a different league if not it's acceleration figures. I doubt there is my cars out there which gives the driver a feeling of being more special, it's like no other Audi that is for sure. In fact I would say that it is in a league above the 997Mk1 at the very least if not the Mk2.
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