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      07-08-2008, 09:12 AM   #1
ganeil
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Canadian Responses requested

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Site attacks single-payer health care


Shona Robertson-Holmes was a mess. She had crushing headaches, insomnia and adrenaline levels so high that she constantly felt as if she had just stepped in front of a speeding bus. And thatís not to mention her rapidly deteriorating eyesight.

She headed to her family doctor, who recommended that she see two specialists.

But Robertson-Holmes is Canadian, and her state-provided health care gave her a wait time of four months to see a neurologist and six months to see an endocrinologist. Unable to get an expedited appointment, and with her eyesight worsening, Robertson-Holmes called the Mayo Clinic in Arizona and went in for tests and a diagnosis within a week.

The doctors there told her she had a four-to-six-week window to have a marble-sized tumor on her pituitary gland removed before her vision loss would be irreversible.

Returning home with the diagnosis, the Ontario native was still unable to expedite the surgery. Three weeks later, she came back to Mayo for brain surgery. And she took out a second mortgage to pay for the $100,000 ordeal...
What are your feelings about your health care system?

Are you generally satisfied?

Do you had any issues with long wait times or know of any other stories like this?
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      07-08-2008, 09:22 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
What are your feelings about your health care system?

Are you generally satisfied?

Do you had any issues with long wait times or know of any other stories like this?
Good questions!
Can we do the same thing for the US Healthcare?
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      07-08-2008, 11:29 AM   #3
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I don't think anybody in the U.S. (other than the poor and uninsured) want to model the U.S. healthcare system after the Canadian system. Canadian system has too many obvious problems.

Don't compare proposed U.S. systems of healthcare with those in place in Canada.
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      07-08-2008, 12:19 PM   #4
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I don't think anybody in the U.S. (other than the poor and uninsured) want to model the U.S. healthcare system after the Canadian system. Canadian system has too many obvious problems.

Don't compare proposed U.S. systems of healthcare with those in place in Canada.
But there is too many poor and uninsured in this country that just wasted $1T for one-man's wish...

And not only that, but my experience with the top-notch insurance in place is horrific in this country as compared to the socialized healthcare experience in the Eastern European country just months ago...exam-quality I meant...

Here, I am rushed, I am charged co-pay before the visit, I have no rights for a HEAVY mis-diagnosis, prescriptions are rushed, without proper investigation of problems...there are still long waits for some services -- try dermatology in FL...

The asthma medicine for my kid costs me $50 after the insurance coverage, the refill cost us $2 in Europe with absolutely no coverage and my kid is not even a citizen over there yet...

****I apologize to Ganeil...this is not purpose of this thread...
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      07-08-2008, 01:20 PM   #5
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If we could go back in time a few months, I would nominate Ted Kennedy (D-MA) to be the first to go on the Canadian system.
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      07-08-2008, 01:27 PM   #6
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If we could go back in time a few months, I would nominate Ted Kennedy (D-MA) to be the first to go on the Canadian system.
WOW, yep, lets put the millionaires with connections and ordinary people in the same basket...
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      07-08-2008, 01:34 PM   #7
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WOW, yep, lets put the millionaires with connections and ordinary people in the same basket...
How long is the waiting list for MRI in Canada? How long is the waiting list for brain surgery? Would Kennedy have been able to pick his brain surgeon? These legislators should subject themselves first to what they propose to subject the rest of us. Does the Obama plan move government employees (including all members of congress and the president) onto the same health plan? You can bet your life that it does not.
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      07-08-2008, 01:40 PM   #8
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How long is the waiting list for MRI in Canada? How long is the waiting list for brain surgery? Would Kennedy have been able to pick his brain surgeon? These legislators should subject themselves first to what they propose to subject the rest of us. Does the Obama plan move government employees (including all members of congress and the president) onto the same health plan? You can bet your life that it does not.
We're waiting for our canadian responses...as you can see.
I just talked to my customer/friend up in canada last week when I visited and he said the MRI for him was scheduled in 2 days. No surgery was needed.
He also said he had to waut 8 hours in the ER one night. I had to wait 6 hours with my kid in ER in 2003. He paid $0, I paid $50 copay...
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      07-08-2008, 02:28 PM   #9
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We're waiting for our canadian responses...as you can see.
I just talked to my customer/friend up in canada last week when I visited and he said the MRI for him was scheduled in 2 days. No surgery was needed.
He also said he had to waut 8 hours in the ER one night. I had to wait 6 hours with my kid in ER in 2003. He paid $0, I paid $50 copay...
Do you think Kennedy waited 2 days for his MRI? Would he get to pick his brain surgeon if he were on the Canadian system? Would congress be required to use the same system they design for the rest of us?
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      07-08-2008, 03:42 PM   #10
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1. 'Universal healthcare', with everyone in the same plan, here in the U.S., will never happen. It will be a tiered system to catch the uninsured and poor.
2. The tiered system will give the insured the same as they have now - $10-50 copays, high insurance rates, etc.
3. The poor will have to suffer like in the current Canadian system, with 'long' waits and generally inferior health care.

This is my educated prediction.

Long waits for special procedures (MRI) and specialists aren't what they used to be in Canada, but still unmanageable. It's like the VA system here in the U.S. (and nobody wants that).

As an aside, I visited an ER in Toronto 5 years ago for a broken arm - 1 minute wait. Reduced the fracture and casted it (under sedation), back in my hotel in 70 minutes, with pain medicine. Very efficient. Charged me $100, billed me several months later.
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      07-08-2008, 03:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
He also said he had to waut 8 hours in the ER one night. I had to wait 6 hours with my kid in ER in 2003. He paid $0, I paid $50 copay...
I know nothing of how their system works, but didn't he technically pay through taxes?
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      07-08-2008, 04:05 PM   #12
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I know nothing of how their system works, but didn't he technically pay through taxes?
ABSOLUTELY
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      07-08-2008, 04:06 PM   #13
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I've been in and out of the doctors office for the past 6 months, and the most I had to wait for was an appointment for a Ear and throat specialist which was 3 months. See my list:

Dr. appoint. 2 days $0
Blood test - immediate no wait $0
X-rays - same day no wait $0
Hearing test - 1 week $0
Sleep pattern test - 3 weeks $0 (overnight)
CT Scan - 2.5 weeks $0
Ear throat specialist - 3 months $0

These are probably the most common test and appointments the general public use. But as mentioned for the more severe surgeries and care for cancer, tumors, transplants the wait is a lot longer. There are many Canadians going south of the border to get immediate surgery and paying big bucks for it.
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      07-08-2008, 04:12 PM   #14
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It is * POS *.

Can't get a doctor in time. Unsane waiting lists are the norm in big centers.

It costs us 14000$ for a family of four in TAXES (24G$/7M citizens).

I'd rather prefer yo pay 10000$ for a private insurance and have real services.
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      07-08-2008, 05:11 PM   #15
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I know nothing of how their system works, but didn't he technically pay through taxes?
Yep, I forgot to say that I also paid monthly...plus the deductable.
But it is not me...it is about those with no insurance...
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      07-08-2008, 05:16 PM   #16
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It is * POS *.
Can't get a doctor in time. Unsane waiting lists are the norm in big centers.
It costs us 14000$ for a family of four in TAXES (24G$/7M citizens).
I'd rather prefer yo pay 10000$ for a private insurance and have real services.
Coming from Canada to the U.S. the patient probably pays full rate for services. When I use my insurance, it is at negotiated rates that are normally much less than full rates. You guys up North help our hospitals to stay profitable. We get great facilities and short wait time. Thanks for coming to the U.S.
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      07-08-2008, 05:19 PM   #17
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Would he get to pick his brain surgeon if he were on the Canadian system?
No. Under the Canadian system you are assigned one doctor at birth. You can only see that one person for the rest of your life. If your doctor retires before you die you are SOL.

Its similar to how jobs and housing are assigned at birth. Although it is nice as it removes worrying about your future.
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      07-08-2008, 05:23 PM   #18
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Yep, I forgot to say that I also paid monthly...plus the deductable.
But it is not me...it is about those with no insurance...
In the state of Washington, one of my brothers had no health insurance. He had some things come up and spent some time in the hospital. His bill was some outrageous figure that he could not even hope to pay. I think it was written off as a loss. The hospital just pays less to taxes. The Canadians make up for the rest when they come for the services they can't wait to get. My brother had no waiting. He got the emergency services and all the follow up he needed. It didn't cost him anything and he is in much better shape today than he was when he was an alcoholic and facing serious complications.
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      07-08-2008, 05:28 PM   #19
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No. Under the Canadian system you are assigned one doctor at birth. You can only see that one person for the rest of your life. If your doctor retires before you die you are SOL.

Its similar to how jobs and housing are assigned at birth. Although it is nice as it removes worrying about your future.
That's great. Can you tell us more?
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      07-08-2008, 05:48 PM   #20
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Neither system is very good, the U.S system is better.
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      07-08-2008, 05:48 PM   #21
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In the state of Washington, one of my brothers had no health insurance. He had some things come up and spent some time in the hospital. His bill was some outrageous figure that he could not even hope to pay. I think it was written off as a loss. The hospital just pays less to taxes. The Canadians make up for the rest when they come for the services they can't wait to get. My brother had no waiting. He got the emergency services and all the follow up he needed. It didn't cost him anything and he is in much better shape today than he was when he was an alcoholic and facing serious complications.
On the other hand a friend of mine was in a similar situation -- could not pay. He was not a citizen, left the USA and never returned. The collector's threats keep coming to his roomate...3 years later
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      07-08-2008, 05:51 PM   #22
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Neither system is very good, the U.S system is better.
I disagree with that...neither is better...
It depends who you are.
French and British (European in genral) systems are best -- you can go for free to social sponsored doctor (Canadian type) or you can pay out of pocket for quicker and better option. Everyone is covered, it is a piece of mind and if you can afford -- go for the best.
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