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      07-08-2008, 08:17 AM   #89
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You say that like it's a bad thing. Sounds more like the way to win a war to me. Did so well they never even got to the majority of your territory. (Yes, majority - see below and above)

Are you ignoring my posts on purpose or did you just miss it? There was a invasion of US land and year+ occupancy by the Japanese in WWII. It was relatively small, but it still happened and claimed the lives of thousands of soldiers.
No, it is a GOOD thing...for us, definitely. But we should not be marching as the World liberators in the WW2...and the history (taught in schools here is leaning that way).

By the US territory -- I meant the COntinental US, Hawaii, Alaska...I did not mean a 12-person island or ships in the harbour.

Nevertheless, I again point out it is a great thing we have not been affected as the others...
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      07-08-2008, 09:44 AM   #90
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The Aleutian Islands are part of Alaska actually, and Attu has 20 people on it, not 12. Yeah they're pretty much deserted rocks in the ocean it's true, but Attu is a pretty big rock compared to most of the islands that were fought over in the Pacific campaign. Wow, for once I actually agree with most of a post you make. (The no marching as liberators thing is the only issue)
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      07-08-2008, 09:45 AM   #91
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Tecnically or not -- the world was destroyed in the WW2 -- the US lands were untouched...
The water games are different thing...US lost 500k soldiers in the WW2, USSR 20M people...a big difference...
What does soldiers deaths have to do with anything? The USSR's strategy was simply to keep on sending in more people to defend their country. They were not that well trained and that is why they got slaughtered. But, the numbers game eventually worked( mainly due to the harsh winter conditions) and the Soviets were able to push the Germans out of the USSR and push to Berlin. Russia did the same strategy in WWI and again they got slaughtered by the Germans and were knocked out of WWI pretty early. If you don't train your military well you will lose a lot of soldiers.
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      07-08-2008, 10:00 AM   #92
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My whole point was: What gives the US the right to attack all these countries, when they directly have never been attacked?

Sounds to me like just reasons to attack for political purposes, not physical military threat.

Anyway it's good to know that they have been in Iraq for so many years now fighting a bunch of mountain boys that doen't even wear shoes...all for the cost of milions of $$, 4000+ troops killed and god knows how many cilivians.
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      07-08-2008, 10:03 AM   #93
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What does soldiers deaths have to do with anything? The USSR's strategy was simply to keep on sending in more people to defend their country. They were not that well trained and that is why they got slaughtered. But, the numbers game eventually worked( mainly due to the harsh winter conditions) and the Soviets were able to push the Germans out of the USSR and push to Berlin. Russia did the same strategy in WWI and again they got slaughtered by the Germans and were knocked out of WWI pretty early. If you don't train your military well you will lose a lot of soldiers.
The US military training wasn't THAT much better than the Soviets. The massive advantage that the US had was MONEY & ECONOMY (because they have never been attacked, so it's all nice and dandy). Thats it!

Their tanks, for exmaple, were a joke compared to the germans.
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      07-08-2008, 10:11 AM   #94
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My whole point was: What gives the US the right to attack all these countries, when they directly have never been attacked?

Sounds to me like just reasons to attack for political purposes, not physical military threat.

Anyway it's good to know that they have been in Iraq for so many years now fighting a bunch of mountain boys that doen't even wear shoes...all for the cost of milions of $$, 4000+ troops killed and god knows how many cilivians.
I think Pearl Harbor was a direct attack, 9/11 was a direct attack, and I do believe the British had troops in the U.S in the War of 1812.......... But, whatever floats your boat when it comes to the truth.

It's simple, the combat of war has changed. We won't be going to war directly with countries much anymore. We will be fighting terrorist organizations and anyone that supports them. While Iraq has been a mistake, Afghanistan was justified. It was justified due to Al Qaeda being stationed there and attacked our country by driving planes into buildings.

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The US military training wasn't THAT much better than the Soviets. The massive advantage that the US had was MONEY & ECONOMY (because they have never been attacked, so it's all nice and dandy). Thats it!

Their tanks, for exmaple, were a joke compared to the germans.
Mostly everything was a joke compared to German equipment. Though the P-38, P-51, etc were not bad planes and the pilots were trained pretty well.

Something prevented the US troops from being slaughtered, and it isn't money and economy or that the U.S simply hid and never fought.
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      07-08-2008, 10:28 AM   #95
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I think Pearl Harbor was a direct attack, 9/11 was a direct attack, and I do believe the British had troops in the U.S in the War of 1812.......... But, whatever floats your boat when it comes to the truth.

It's simple, the combat of war has changed. We won't be going to war directly with countries much anymore. We will be fighting terrorist organizations and anyone that supports them. While Iraq has been a mistake, Afghanistan was justified. It was justified due to Al Qaeda being stationed there and attacked our country by driving planes into buildings.



Mostly everything was a joke compared to German equipment. Though the P-38, P-51, etc were not bad planes and the pilots were trained pretty well.

Something prevented the US troops from being slaughtered, and it isn't money and economy or that the U.S simply hid and never fought.
Pearl Harbor was.

9/11 -- what does that have to do with Iraq AT ALL???
Does now the attack on Irak and colleteral damage of a few hundred thousand justify another Arab world attack on us??? According to your logic it does...

I can see justification behind the attack on Afghanistan, though, blows my mind that a person and a "terror idol" is still free, alive and bussing around (who knows where) 7 years after 9/11...huge failure
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      07-08-2008, 10:31 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by SteelTorque View Post
My whole point was: What gives the US the right to attack all these countries, when they directly have never been attacked?

Sounds to me like just reasons to attack for political purposes, not physical military threat.

Anyway it's good to know that they have been in Iraq for so many years now fighting a bunch of mountain boys that doen't even wear shoes...all for the cost of milions of $$, 4000+ troops killed and god knows how many cilivians.
So, to your mind responding to an attack on others and assisting them in their defense is somehow less noble or permissible than responding when you yourself are attacked?

I think we should be proud that we helped liberate western Europe during WWII even though Germany and Italy never attacked us, that we defended South Korea, attempted to prevent the communist take over of South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, and came to the aid of Kuwait.

Wars are sometimes fought for hard, cold, political reasons but other times for much more noble purposes. Maybe you do not think freedom, liberty, allowing people a choice in how heir nation is governed is worth fighting for. Thankfully many others do and the best part is while they do it, no one forces you to.

Your comments about Iraq simply highlight your ignorance of what is being and has been accomplished there.
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      07-08-2008, 10:31 AM   #97
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Pearl Harbor was.

9/11 -- what does that have to do with Iraq AT ALL???
Does now the attack on Irak and colleteral damage of a few hundred thousand justify another Arab world attack on us??? According to your logic it does...
Where did I say Iraq was justifiable, I said Iraq was a MISTAKE.

I quote myself

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While Iraq has been a mistake, Afghanistan was justified.
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      07-08-2008, 10:33 AM   #98
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Where did I say Iraq was justifiable, I said Iraq was a MISTAKE.

I quote myself
Sorry, did not read that...
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      07-08-2008, 10:52 AM   #99
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Where did I say Iraq was justifiable, I said Iraq was a MISTAKE.

I quote myself
Removing a tyrant who twice invaded his neighbors, gassed his neighbors and his own people, harbored and supported international terrorists, attempted to assassinate a former US president, spent 12 years in defiance of the Security Council and replaced him with a representative government - the first in the Arab world was a mistake?
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      07-08-2008, 11:04 AM   #100
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Removing a tyrant who twice invaded his neighbors, gassed his neighbors and his own people, harbored and supported international terrorists, attempted to assassinate a former US president, spent 12 years in defiance of the Security Council and replaced him with a representative government - the first in the Arab world was a mistake?
Yes, especially since we didn't capture the person responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Bush had one goal, to make a name for himself. Since he failed on capturing Bin Laden, he tried again with Iraq. Even before 9/11 happened they were planning to invade Iraq. Selling the public that they had WMD's, were connected to 9/11, etc was wrong. Don't you just love it when no evidence what so ever to prove Iraq had WMD's( excluding the ones we gave him) and had connections to 9/11, Bush switched the mission plan to freeing the Iraqi people from oppression.

PS: We shouldn't be the world police. We should only have our military might to defend ourselves and not get involved with other conflicts. If other countries followed that statute as well, there would be less conflict in the world.
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      07-08-2008, 11:04 AM   #101
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This goon has continually advocated the destruction of Israel and has pursued it covertly through arming and funding organizations that war with Israel. He has spoken so often about destroying Israel that his words today are obviously propaganda to try to warn off an impending attack on Iran's nuclear weapons program, and a warning that Iran will retaliate against both Israel and the U.S.
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Iranian president says no war with US, Israel

He also predicted Israel would collapse without Iranian action.

"I assure you that there won't be any war in the future," Ahmadinejad told a news conference during a visit to Malaysia for a summit of developing Muslim nations.

The Israelis "are a complex political group, but you should know this regime will be eventually destroyed and there is no need of any measure by Iranian people," he said when asked to comment on whether he has called for the destruction of Israel.

Ahmadinejad's comments came a day after Iran's Revolutionary Guards said in a statement that the country was holding a military drill involving "missile squads" and warned that the country would retaliate against any military strike by targeting Tel Aviv and U.S. warships in the Gulf.
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      07-08-2008, 11:16 AM   #102
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Yes, especially since we didn't capture the person responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Bush had one goal, to make a name for himself. Since he failed on capturing Bin Laden, he tried again with Iraq. Even before 9/11 happened they were planning to invade Iraq. Selling the public that they had WMD's, were connected to 9/11, etc was wrong. Don't you just love it when no evidence what so ever to prove Iraq had WMD's( excluding the ones we gave him) and had connections to 9/11, Bush switched the mission plan to freeing the Iraqi people from oppression.

PS: We shouldn't be the world police. We should only have our military might to defend ourselves and not get involved with other conflicts. If other countries followed that statute as well, there would be less conflict in the world.
Thank you. Finally. Thats what i've been trying to say all along.

As for the middle east, yes it sucks how they kill each other and how they treat women, how they do politics etc....but it's not our job or right to go there and try to act like God.
There have been problems there since the begining of time, and probably always will be, unfortunately, but by going there we have made a bad name for ourselves and caused more death, hate and conflict in that area.
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      07-08-2008, 11:20 AM   #103
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Thank you. Finally. Thats what i've been trying to say all along.

As for the middle east, yes it sucks how they kill each other and how they treat women, how they do politics etc....but it's not our job or right to go there and try to act like God.
There have been problems there since the begining of time, and probably always will be, unfortunately, but by going there we have made a bad name for ourselves and caused more death, hate and conflict in that area.
Well you had a weird way of saying it by saying we were never attacked in our history........
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      07-08-2008, 11:29 AM   #104
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Well you had a weird way of saying it by saying we were never attacked in our history........
We weren't.

LOL

I was talking about being invaded, full scale, not the fact that one of the our bases got bombarded at Pearl Harbor and thats it.

I'm talking about how the Soviet Union got attacked, or France or Poland or Germany, China or whatever most of the Europe with entire countries/cities turned into parking lots and ruins etc...
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      07-08-2008, 01:06 PM   #105
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We weren't.

LOL

I was talking about being invaded, full scale, not the fact that one of the our bases got bombarded at Pearl Harbor and thats it.

I'm talking about how the Soviet Union got attacked, or France or Poland or Germany, China or whatever most of the Europe with entire countries/cities turned into parking lots and ruins etc...
What was the War of 1812 then? As I said, we have the oceans surrounding us to thank for that we haven't been invaded. Doesn't mean we go around invading other countries for the heck of it.
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      07-08-2008, 01:28 PM   #106
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What was the War of 1812 then? As I said, we have the oceans surrounding us to thank for that we haven't been invaded. Doesn't mean we go around invading other countries for the heck of it.
What for then?
I mean -- legally, what for?
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      07-08-2008, 02:04 PM   #107
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Yes, especially since we didn't capture the person responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Bush had one goal, to make a name for himself. Since he failed on capturing Bin Laden, he tried again with Iraq. Even before 9/11 happened they were planning to invade Iraq. Selling the public that they had WMD's, were connected to 9/11, etc was wrong. Don't you just love it when no evidence what so ever to prove Iraq had WMD's( excluding the ones we gave him) and had connections to 9/11, Bush switched the mission plan to freeing the Iraqi people from oppression.

PS: We shouldn't be the world police. We should only have our military might to defend ourselves and not get involved with other conflicts. If other countries followed that statute as well, there would be less conflict in the world.
It never ceases to amaze me when people claim they can divine the motives of someone they have never even met. What could you possibly base your assertion that Pres Bush invaded Iraq because we had not captured bin Laden on? Are you a psychic?

On the one hand you claim that Bush planned to invade Iraq before 9/11 and then claim he only did it because we hadn't captured UBL. Which is it?

There was ample reason for believing Iraq retained WMD stockpiles in defiance of the cease fire agreement and ample justification for invading and deposing Saddam. That is why every serious member of both parties who had studied the issue agreed. PLEASE read the article I linked to in another thread entitled, "Why Iraq was Inevitable." If you are going to oppose the war, the least you can do is base that opposition on facts rather than fantasy.

As for being the world's policeman, what makes you think the world would be a safer place if we retreated from the rest of the world? Would South Koreans be starving like their cousins in the north? Would you prefer to be driving a Trabant than your BMW? Think western Europe would have remained free absent the American security umbrella?

The world is not Disneyland.
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      07-08-2008, 02:05 PM   #108
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What for then?
I mean -- legally, what for?
Impressment, blocking our trading with France, and still occupying forts on U.S soil were the causes of the War of 1812.
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      07-08-2008, 02:08 PM   #109
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This goon has continually advocated the destruction of Israel and has pursued it covertly through arming and funding organizations that war with Israel. He has spoken so often about destroying Israel that his words today are obviously propaganda to try to warn off an impending attack on Iran's nuclear weapons program, and a warning that Iran will retaliate against both Israel and the U.S.
Iran warns against attack as G8 demands nuclear freeze

Iran warned on Tuesday it would "set fire" to Israel and US forces in response to any attack over its nuclear drive, as the world's leading industrial powers told Tehran to freeze uranium enrichment.

Leaders of the Group of Eight nations at a summit in Japan urged Iran to fully comply with UN Security Council resolutions "in particular to suspend all enrichment-related activities."

They also urged Tehran to respond positively to a new package by six major powers aimed at bringing an end to the five-year-old nuclear standoff which has led to a string of sanctions against Iran.

The United States and its top regional ally Israel have never ruled out military action against Iran over its nuclear drive, which the West fears could be aimed at building an atomic bomb.

There has been concern a strike could be imminent after it emerged Israel had carried out manoeuvres in Greece that were effectively practice runs for a potential strike against Iranian nuclear facilities.

"The first US shot on Iran would set the United States' vital interests in the world on fire," said Ali Shirazi, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's representative to the naval forces of the elite Revolutionary Guards.

"Tel Aviv and the US fleet in the Persian Gulf would be the targets that would be set on fire in Iran's crushing response," he said, according to the Fars news agency.

Washington shrugged off the threat.

"Comments like that are not out of the norm and not unusual," State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said, adding: "We continue to stress our desire to resolve this issue diplomatically... continue with the process."
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      07-08-2008, 02:21 PM   #110
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The world is not Disneyland.
Especially when you profit of others suffering...war profitter
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