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      07-07-2008, 02:21 PM   #45
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Damn. The price of is going up, also.

Anyone want some ???
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      07-07-2008, 03:24 PM   #46
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Expenses:

25% - commission to brother
33-35% - short term capital gains (on probably 40% of all transactions)
15% - long term capital gains (on the other 60%)
xx% - broker
------
+50% of all profits are not going into your pocket, meaning instead of living off of 276, you are living off of $138,000 a year, or more than likely $69,000 a year assuming your broker takes 25%. And considering you are living off of this, that means it isnt being reinvested.

This is a laugh in a half. You are either lieing, stupid, or someone is lieing to you and taking you for a ride. I sincerly hope i am missing something here because if not, i feel sorry for what is in store for you. I appologize if this message is harsh, but if any of this is true i hope this serves as a wakeup call.
I do sense your "sincerity".

Yes, you are missing something here. My brother is not a licensed broker nor is he charged a broker's fee. He is being tutored by a gentleman by the name of Joe Ross; founder of the "Ross Hook" as well as a highly regarded author of trading literature. Look him up sometime.

I pay nothing more than 25% commission for profits of 14.5k per month and above and sometimes a lesser commission for lesser profits secured at the end of the month.

The money I have invested in commodities is regularly reinvested throughout the year. If I invested only 25k then I would never make enough to reinvest each month.

Keeping all of this in mind; last year I profited 219k while investing more than 60%. Besides commissions and taxes paid at the end of the year, I incur no other costs other than adding to my reserve funds.
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      07-07-2008, 03:31 PM   #47
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I do sense your "sincerity".

Yes, you are missing something here. My brother is not a licensed broker nor is he charged a broker's fee. He is being tutored by a gentleman by the name of Joe Ross; founder of the "Ross Hook" as well as a highly regarded author of trading literature. Look him up sometime.

I pay nothing more than 25% commission for profits of 14.5k per month and above and sometimes a lesser commission for lesser profits secured at the end of the month.

The money I have invested in commodities is regularly reinvested throughout the year. If I invested only 25k then I would never make enough to reinvest each month.

Keeping all of this in mind; last year I profited 219k while investing more than 60%. Besides commissions and taxes paid at the end of the year, I incur no other costs other than adding to my reserve funds.

profited 219k off 100k? or has that startin value grown (i.e. your return on last year wasn't over 200%) Are commissions paid on a quarterly or yearly basis? I.e. if paid on a yearly basis, if you were to have 6 profitable months and 6 negative months, you would pay a net of 0 in commissions. vs if its on a quarterly system where you could end up paying 25% and making nothing in the course of a year.

also, are you making quarterly estimated tax payments? and is that 219k after taxes and commission? because if you are reinvesting more than 60% and commision is another 25% on top of that... that only leaves 15% to pay taxes in life off, which wouldnt work out.
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      07-07-2008, 03:57 PM   #48
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profited 219k off 100k? or has that startin value grown (i.e. your return on last year wasn't over 200%) Are commissions paid on a quarterly or yearly basis? I.e. if paid on a yearly basis, if you were to have 6 profitable months and 6 negative months, you would pay a net of 0 in commissions. vs if its on a quarterly system where you could end up paying 25% and making nothing in the course of a year.

also, are you making quarterly estimated tax payments? and is that 219k after taxes and commission? because if you are reinvesting more than 60% and commision is another 25% on top of that... that only leaves 15% to pay taxes in life off, which wouldnt work out.
Over the course of the previous 18 months, my initial starting fund has grown nearly 73%. The investment is continuous and taxes are paid quarterly. I pay my brother his commissions each month based on each month's profitability. I.e. if profits are less that 14,5k then the commission % declines to 15%. Until he has a proven track record we will continue the set commission rate.

No, I make no estimated tax payments (especially at this time). Yes, last year's figure reflects post taxes.

I realize the method used and agreement between my brother and I is unorthodoxed ..... maybe illegal? ........... however, I am able to help him in keeping with his goals as well as supplement my portfolio.

Wow ....... I never thought I would have to attempt to justify myself to a stranger .... oh well.
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      07-07-2008, 04:08 PM   #49
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Sorry if i'm being very skeptical, but your numbers are really screwy. if you are re-investing over 60% of your profits and you made 219k after tax last year, your initial starting fund would have grown by alot more than 73%.

Claims of a consistant 11% return PER MONTH over 18 months are pretty hard to swallow.

Also, i googled Joe ross and did a little reading on his website. I am going to stop this conversation now as i beleive his website says it all.

Best of luck.
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      07-07-2008, 04:31 PM   #50
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Who do I send my $100k to?

I want in on this, I have been bleeding money all year in excess of $30k already with this shitty market...
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      07-07-2008, 04:39 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by mnkybiznes View Post
Over the course of the previous 18 months, my initial starting fund has grown nearly 73%. The investment is continuous and taxes are paid quarterly. I pay my brother his commissions each month based on each month's profitability. I.e. if profits are less that 14,5k then the commission % declines to 15%. Until he has a proven track record we will continue the set commission rate.

No, I make no estimated tax payments (especially at this time). Yes, last year's figure reflects post taxes.

I realize the method used and agreement between my brother and I is unorthodoxed ..... maybe illegal? ........... however, I am able to help him in keeping with his goals as well as supplement my portfolio.

Wow ....... I never thought I would have to attempt to justify myself to a stranger .... oh well.

Not sure if you care for another stanger's option but here goes: I'm a bit skeptical of the long run viability of the underlying trading strategy.

If you were to lose your entire investment would it have a large impact on you life? Is your whole portfolio in this fund?

Look, commodities have been on a tear for a while now. The charts of oil, corn, etc all have shown very steep appreciation. With a bit of leverage being long would lead to huge profits. However all markets correct, and eventually the commodities markets will as well. A 10% decline with 10x leverage wipes you out. There has been a lot of money flowing into commodities over the past couple of years. Some of this increased demand has been actual demand for the underlying good, but a fair amount of it has been speculative money that has only been able to get into this niche due to a loophole that investment banks have been exploiting. If that loophole gets closed, money will get pulled very fast and that means sell off.

Can you find out some stats on the trading system? What is the average monthly return for the last 3 years? Average leverage? Maximum daily drawdown? All this stuff is important top determine whether this sort of performance can be maintained.

Anyway, best of luck and I hope it works out for you.
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      07-07-2008, 05:34 PM   #52
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it's a good time loading up stocks...
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      07-07-2008, 05:54 PM   #53
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Want to invest in feature films?

Certainly a risky investment, but with a name attached, you'll most likely make money back on worldwide distribution.

PM me for a business plan
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      07-07-2008, 09:34 PM   #54
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Who do I send my $100k to?

I want in on this, I have been bleeding money all year in excess of $30k already with this shitty market...
paypal to dr325i@yahoo.com
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      07-08-2008, 02:36 AM   #55
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you all are welcome to park yo money at my place, free of charge of course to my fellow e90 members

can't get any sweeter than this, cha-ching!
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it will be in the right hands
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      07-08-2008, 12:07 PM   #56
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Who do I send my $100k to?

I want in on this, I have been bleeding money all year in excess of $30k already with this shitty market...
Most of our client's have at least $1,000,000 in investable assets

But really it doesn't have much to do with size... more the complexity of work that a client of that size requires (i.e. tax management, estate planning, long term cash flow analysis, maximizing charitable giving, account aggregation, ect...) At $1,000,000 it make sense for the client to use our services.

p.s. thats what she said.
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      07-08-2008, 12:22 PM   #57
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sent!

when do I get my dividends?
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      07-08-2008, 12:24 PM   #58
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sent!

when do I get my dividends?
I sent it to my boss in Nigeria for further "processing"
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      07-08-2008, 12:57 PM   #59
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I sent it to my boss in Nigeria for further "processing"

Hey, I want in on this! Only problem is I've only got a check for $150k, so I'll need you to send my sick grandmother the remainder for her life-preserving surgery. Fortunately she's in Nigeria too, so just have your boss e-mail me his account information and I'll set up a funds transfer.
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      07-08-2008, 01:23 PM   #60
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my investment philosophy:

cd's for annual expenses - short term investing to cope w/ short term expenses ie. inflation, bills, etc.
mutual funds for long term - depending on your risk profile & market conditions, it works out in the end
annuities NEVER - you can do the same w/ mutual funds. the only guarantee you get is that they're going to keep your money
life insurance good to have - protect your ASSets
real estate for mid-long term - doesn't require as much effort as stocks
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      07-08-2008, 01:44 PM   #61
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my investment philosophy:

cd's for annual expenses - short term investing to cope w/ short term expenses ie. inflation, bills, etc.
mutual funds for long term - depending on your risk profile & market conditions, it works out in the end
annuities NEVER - you can do the same w/ mutual funds. the only guarantee you get is that they're going to keep your money
life insurance good to have - protect your ASSets
real estate for mid-long term - doesn't require as much effort as stocks
these days cd's may not provide much advantage over position traded money market funds, which provide more liquidity. also, beware of companies selling things as "cash equivalents" when in reality, they are nowhere close to that.

also, depending on your tax bracket always look at taxable vs. non-taxable alternatives for holding cash and or bonds (i.e. fixed income assets) its not to difficult to figure out.
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      07-08-2008, 02:12 PM   #62
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my investment philosophy:

cd's for annual expenses - short term investing to cope w/ short term expenses ie. inflation, bills, etc.
mutual funds for long term - depending on your risk profile & market conditions, it works out in the end
annuities NEVER - you can do the same w/ mutual funds. the only guarantee you get is that they're going to keep your money
life insurance good to have - protect your ASSets
real estate for mid-long term - doesn't require as much effort as stocks
Why never for annuities? Fixed annuities are guaranteed. They also offer tax deferral. Both features mutual funds do not offer. You may be talking about variable annuities (which have mutual fund investment options) Annuity companies are not going to keep your money. If you want to walk after 5, 3 or even two years with principal and interest. You can do this in a fixed annuity contract. Cheers
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      07-08-2008, 02:38 PM   #63
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Fixed annuities are guaranteed, but don't account for inflation. If you really want to avoid taxes, go for municipal bonds. Myself, I'm starting to get off the sidelines and buy some of these companies that have been taken a beating over the past 7 months. I don't care about fixed income.
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      07-08-2008, 08:18 PM   #64
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Annuities are almost never a good bet. As far as a mutual fund goes, if you can stomach the risk, put CGMFX in a non-taxable account aka an ira
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      07-09-2008, 01:56 AM   #65
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A small take on...

Annuities vs. Better Things You Can Do With Your Money

Annuities - guaranteed money & tax deferral in the future
-you can get a fixed annuity, or a variable one. the fixed annuity is the guaranteed set amt of $$, and the variable one is somewhat fixed, but is sensitive to market conditions (could be up or down from that guaranteed amt)
-tax deferral helps your money grow w/o being attacked by the gov't

IRAs - tax deferral
-you can set up a traditional, or a roth IRA. traditional IRAs help your money grow untouched 'til withdrawal, then it's taxed. or instead on a roth it's taxed first, then it grows, but you're not taxed upon withdrawal.

Analysis:
**investment companies are investing YOUR money to make more money. whether it's from an annuity, or an IRA, they're making more money off your money.

so, given that...

1. annuities don't account for inflation. inflation has been shown to be relatively in between ~3-6% on average. annuities only guarantee you a fixed amt of money. they don't let you touch the rest of it (the bigger bux that THEY made off yours). so 5 yrs down the line, what's happening to your money? inflation goes NUM NUM NUM on your fixed income, and yes it remains fixed.

BUT WHAT ABOUT VARIABLE ANNUITIES? well, that's subject to the market. so you could take that risk on whether you're going to get above, or below that fixed amt.

2. annuities are NOT flexible. it guarantees you $$ for the rest of your life right? well, it's only for YOUR life. after that, who gets to keep ALLLLL that money that they made of yours? well they do obviously, unless you name a benificiary, still then it's only for the rest of THEIR life. not to mention you may also incur some severe reductions. plus, if you want to take out all your moneys, then BAM penalties will apply.

3. IRAs are better because they do the same thing. if you take a historical look on how the stock market has performed, in the long run it has always outperformed every other market and has only has continued to go up. so what does this have to do w/ your IRA? well, by the time you start taking money out of your IRA, your money still grew and ALL of it is yours.

if you're concerned about withdrawing money from your "nest egg" & having to worry about it dwindling to zero, well i'm pretty that you'll be able to set up a withdrawal plan where your $$ keeps maintaining & even growing while you're still taking.

4. beneficiaries, death tax, blah blah... with a trust, or a transfer/gift paln you can make sure your heirs get what's left over.
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      07-09-2008, 07:59 AM   #66
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A small take on...

Annuities vs. Better Things You Can Do With Your Money

Annuities - guaranteed money & tax deferral in the future
-you can get a fixed annuity, or a variable one. the fixed annuity is the guaranteed set amt of $$, and the variable one is somewhat fixed, but is sensitive to market conditions (could be up or down from that guaranteed amt)
-tax deferral helps your money grow w/o being attacked by the gov't

IRAs - tax deferral
-you can set up a traditional, or a roth IRA. traditional IRAs help your money grow untouched 'til withdrawal, then it's taxed. or instead on a roth it's taxed first, then it grows, but you're not taxed upon withdrawal.

Analysis:
**investment companies are investing YOUR money to make more money. whether it's from an annuity, or an IRA, they're making more money off your money.

so, given that...

1. annuities don't account for inflation. inflation has been shown to be relatively in between ~3-6% on average. annuities only guarantee you a fixed amt of money. they don't let you touch the rest of it (the bigger bux that THEY made off yours). so 5 yrs down the line, what's happening to your money? inflation goes NUM NUM NUM on your fixed income, and yes it remains fixed.

BUT WHAT ABOUT VARIABLE ANNUITIES? well, that's subject to the market. so you could take that risk on whether you're going to get above, or below that fixed amt.

2. annuities are NOT flexible. it guarantees you $$ for the rest of your life right? well, it's only for YOUR life. after that, who gets to keep ALLLLL that money that they made of yours? well they do obviously, unless you name a benificiary, still then it's only for the rest of THEIR life. not to mention you may also incur some severe reductions. plus, if you want to take out all your moneys, then BAM penalties will apply.

3. IRAs are better because they do the same thing. if you take a historical look on how the stock market has performed, in the long run it has always outperformed every other market and has only has continued to go up. so what does this have to do w/ your IRA? well, by the time you start taking money out of your IRA, your money still grew and ALL of it is yours.

if you're concerned about withdrawing money from your "nest egg" & having to worry about it dwindling to zero, well i'm pretty that you'll be able to set up a withdrawal plan where your $$ keeps maintaining & even growing while you're still taking.

4. beneficiaries, death tax, blah blah... with a trust, or a transfer/gift paln you can make sure your heirs get what's left over.
The answer to inflation in a fixed annuity is a fixed indexed annuity. This vehicle guarantees a specific rate of return on the principal. Lets say 100% of the money is guaranteed at 3% as the WORST CASE SCENARIO. And you cant have a negative year with this product. Only a 0% year in a down year. PLUS you have upside potential linked to the S&P 500, DJIA, Eurostoxx, etc. So this is a way to have a guaranteed rate of return, downside protection AND upside potential which could offset inflation. Also, these contracts do not have the fees typically found in a variable annuity.

Immediate annuities can also offer COLA (cost of living adjustments) which is 3-9% inflation adjuster each year to account for inflation.

Number 2. Wrong. Annuities are flexible. Most allow for 10% or even 15% to be withdrawn each year without surrender charges. Like I said, there are some contracts that allow you to walk away with principal and interest after as little as 2 years. Many even have nursing home waivers where clients can walk with the value if they become confined to a NH. How is this not flexible?

Regarding income for life. The insurance company does NOT always keep the money. Beneficiaries can be elected and one option is a cash refund which means the balance of what has not yet been paid out will go to the bene's. Therefore, all of their money is returned, just not necessarily to the original owner. But that does not matter because they have passed away. And the balance will go to their spouse, children/family, etc.

Look, I am not saying fixed annuities are for everyone, especially not for younger folks like on this forum - they should just be a part of any pre-retiree's "safe money" portfolio.
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