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      07-02-2008, 08:42 AM   #1
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Angry UK Govt. bribery for support to hold terrorists for 42 days without charge.

The Daily Telegraph has seen a private letter sent by chief whip Geoff Hoon to Mr Vaz expressing an expectation that his former ministerial colleague will be “appropriately rewarded” for backing the measure to hold terror suspects for up to 42 days without charge.

Mr Vaz is the Labour chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee. He was previously opposed to the plans but later offered his full backing. He made a major speech during the debate on the proposals which is thought to have won over some backbench MPs. Securing his backing was seen as crucial by the Government.

Amid rumours of a peerage or knighthood, Mr Vaz was asked in Parliament during the debate the day before the vote whether he had been offered an honour for his support. He said: “No, it was certainly not offered—but I do not know; there is still time.”

In the handwritten letter sent on 12th June 2008 – the day after the key vote - Mr Hoon writes: “Dear Keith…Just a quick note to thank you for all your help during the period leading up to last Wednesday’s vote. I wanted you to know how much I appreciated all your help.”

“I trust that it will be appropriately rewarded!...With thanks and best wishes, Geoff.”

The Prime Minister has been accused of offering rebel backbenchers a series of deals in exchange of their votes but the chief whip’s letter may provide the first hard evidence that rewards were potentially available to those supportive of the plans.

Mr Brown won the key vote by just nine votes after securing the support of the Democratic Unionist Party. Shadow Home Secretary David Davis resigned and accused the Prime Minister of debasing Parliament in the way the legislation was pushed through.
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      07-02-2008, 08:44 AM   #2
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This does not suprise me at all. We were talked into the Iraq war based on lies. Since then Blair has left and Gordon Brown is the new Prime Minister, and the UK govt. has made huge mistakes such as leaving Iraqi war files on trains etc.

We have already seen how incompetent the Govt is, but this is just more proof of how corrupt it is. How can we trust the UK Govt. now?

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      07-02-2008, 08:48 AM   #3
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and for guys who want to know who Geoff Hoon is, he used to be Sec of state for defence. Maybe this pic will refresh memories:

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      07-02-2008, 08:50 AM   #4
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governments = mafias whether we like it or not.
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      07-02-2008, 09:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
governments = mafias whether we like it or not.
+1

Except some people cant accept that fact without telling the rest of us it's just a big conspiracy theory. Time after time govts. are proven to be very dishonest and crooked. This just strengthens the arguement that the UK govt cannot be trusted.
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      07-02-2008, 11:43 AM   #6
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Uh, duh (for lack of a better word).

What fantasy world have you been living in?
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      07-02-2008, 01:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Uh, duh (for lack of a better word).

What fantasy world have you been living in?
None. I'm just pointing out yet another example of corruption that barely gets any media coverage. What's your problem?
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      07-02-2008, 02:52 PM   #8
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Lol in the USA you can be held in GETMO without ever being sentenced and having your identity completely taken from you.


Until now ish, hence why we saw a 9/11 trial for once.
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      07-02-2008, 04:15 PM   #9
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None. I'm just pointing out yet another example of corruption that barely gets any media coverage. What's your problem?
I'm not even sure, "I trust that it will be appropriately rewarded!" rises to the level of corruption.
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      07-02-2008, 04:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I'm not even sure, "I trust that it will be appropriately rewarded!" rises to the level of corruption.
Why would you even "reward" support? did everyone that ensured the govt. managed to win by 8 votes get "rewards"? let's not forget the fact he was totally against the 42 day movement to begin with.
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      07-02-2008, 04:46 PM   #11
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why drives me nuts is every government in any country that comes people consider it credible. government turns out dishonest, next gov't comes along people do the same fucking mistake and trust it!! when the fuck u gonna learn?
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      07-02-2008, 05:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Why would you even "reward" support? did everyone that ensured the govt. managed to win by 8 votes get "rewards"? let's not forget the fact he was totally against the 42 day movement to begin with.
Political parties wield an enormous amount of power in parliamentary systems to punish or reward members for their votes. That is simply the nature of the beast. Even in the US parties can reward members for their votes with things like committee assignments, campaign support, etc...
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      07-02-2008, 06:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Political parties wield an enormous amount of power in parliamentary systems to punish or reward members for their votes. That is simply the nature of the beast. Even in the US parties can reward members for their votes with things like committee assignments, campaign support, etc...
HAHAHAHA
We invented it BLIND MAN!
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      07-02-2008, 06:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Political parties wield an enormous amount of power in parliamentary systems to punish or reward members for their votes. That is simply the nature of the beast. Even in the US parties can reward members for their votes with things like committee assignments, campaign support, etc...
This isnt just for general support and has nothing to do with inner party relations regarding votes. The Govt. knows how influential Mr. Vaz's vote would be, and many people think it was his vote that secured the decision. Not suprising really when the Govt. only won by 8 votes...

Also, we still have to wonder the real reasons why he changed his mind. Yes he might have been rewarded, but we also have to handle the fact he was against the 42 day rule and now fully supports it.
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      07-02-2008, 06:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
This isnt just for general support and has nothing to do with inner party relations regarding votes. The Govt. knows how influential Mr. Vaz's vote would be, and many people think it was his vote that secured the decision. Not suprising really when the Govt. only won by 8 votes...

Also, we still have to wonder the real reasons why he changed his mind. Yes he might have been rewarded, but we also have to handle the fact he was against the 42 day rule and now fully supports it.
Then it was even more important for them to gain his support wasn't it?

The government wanted to pass the bill. They most likely threatened, cajoled, and rewarded various members to gain their support for what they felt was an important issue. That is not at all surprising or corrupt.
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      07-02-2008, 06:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Then it was even more important for them to gain his support wasn't it?

The government wanted to pass the bill. They most likely threatened, cajoled, and rewarded various members to gain their support for what they felt was an important issue. That is not at all surprising or corrupt.
I guess it depends what you class as corruption. When men are lead by "appropriate rewards" to use their influence in favour of those giving rewards instead of making a stand for what is right, I would call that corruption and bribery.

How could you honestly say that is not bribery/corruption? Is this any way to run a democractic state where men can be lead by "rewards"?
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      07-02-2008, 07:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
I guess it depends what you class as corruption. When men are lead by "appropriate rewards" to use their influence in favour of those giving rewards instead of making a stand for what is right, I would call that corruption and bribery.

How could you honestly say that is not bribery/corruption? Is this any way to run a democractic state where men can be lead by "rewards"?
I guess you could take it to extremes and classify it as corruption whenever an elected official responds to public pressure since he wishes the public to reward him with votes.

Party discipline is essential in a parliamentary system and parties instill that discipline by rewarding & punishing members for their votes. I don't necessarily like it in theory but cannot imagine how such a system could function without it.
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      07-07-2008, 12:30 AM   #18
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why do terrorist combatants have all these right. imagine is osama bin laden was actually captured and put away into prison. This monster wouuld have better health converage than the average US citizen. Keep those bastards locked up. and throw the keys away so that they never harm a US soldier or any other citizen ever again.
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