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      05-27-2008, 08:08 PM   #1
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EDC: Sport vs Normal at the Track

Hi guys...I'm headed to my first track event in my e92 this weekend at Laguna Seca, and I'll have to admit, I'm a bit nervous as I'm still learning this car.

My last vehicle was an e46m3 with GC Suspension etc etc, so it was very much, set a few rebound/compression settings and you're good to go.

With the e92 Normal(Dynamic) vs. Sport (let alone throttle and steering) is something I'm still trying to 100% nail down.

Without commenting too much on my experience with the settings, I was wondering what most of you have used at the track?

Any feedback would be great.

Thanks!


**EDIT:

Some of my feedback post track event:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=laguna

Pics of the event:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147091
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      05-27-2008, 08:15 PM   #2
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I remember reading articles at launch, BMW engineers were advising the test drivers to leave the car in normal and not sport mode. Like you stated Normal is dynamic and can firm up the suspension more so than the fixed sport mode. I would play with this though, as I think consistent feel is more important than constantly changing dampening especially when pushing on a consistent track. I don't know which is faster, I have driven with the car in normal and sport on Skyline drive and found sport more suited to my driving style.
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      05-27-2008, 09:33 PM   #3
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IMHO, finding the correct f/r rebound and compression setting on your previous car for a given track would have been much more challenging than using EDC. I haven't tracked an EDC car, but you basicly have two choices. Sport or fixed compression/rebound or... Normal which is dynamically computer adjusted compression/rebound. In Normal mode the computer will go stiffer than Sport when warranted but also allow for more compliance over less than smooth surfaces. I would think the Normal setting would be the ticket.
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      05-28-2008, 02:26 PM   #4
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I agree with both your statements. My concern was as you stated, having a consistent basis in which i would know prior to entering a corner how the car will set up and react....with Sport I feel this way, in Normal(Dynamic) i think there is a small lag in which the suspension adjusts to the turn at hand. The trade off to this is that I feel, once actually in the corner, Normal gets through it much better(less plow or oversteer than Sport), especially off camber turns...it is just the part prior to turn in that throws me off with the Normal setting.

Maybe Normal will be the option of choice, when i finally get used to it.

Also, to address your comment on setting coilovers...it is indeed a pain, however there is a science to it that we think we all know; where setting EDC is just a mystery box based on asumptions for me at this point.

Thanks guys!
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      05-28-2008, 03:02 PM   #5
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i dont have ur answer, but MDM + stiffest damping is no bueno. i spun out on local roads a few times on friday. that shit can get scary. if i go, or when i go im gonna try full DSC + normal first, then if that bothers me i will only activated MDM. btw make sure ur seats are hugging u well, coz i was hurting after i spun out like 5 times trying to figure out the right settings hahah
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      05-28-2008, 03:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
i dont have ur answer, but MDM + stiffest damping is no bueno. i spun out on local roads a few times on friday. that shit can get scary. if i go, or when i go im gonna try full DSC + normal first, then if that bothers me i will only activated MDM. btw make sure ur seats are hugging u well, coz i was hurting after i spun out like 5 times trying to figure out the right settings hahah
Lol no bueno indeed.

My last M was prior to the ZCP package(no M button)....so MDM will actually let you spin out? I thought to the limit and then it kicks in from what i can tell....so basically....your tires can break, but not spin? DSC on is really intrusive, given the power of this car.

What was strange on my e46M with the GC suspension; at the track w/DSC activated, the system barely even came on. Prior to the suspenion change, it was a whole different story.

I'm with you on starting conservative and then pushing the more and more as you go.

Shit, this is going to be an interesting weekend.
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      05-28-2008, 05:32 PM   #7
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I agree on the scary as all hell with everything turned on. But to be on a track to learn your car, I would turn all the assist off. Learn to control lead foot disease and being to hard on the brakes coming in and hard on the gas coming out. It guaranteed that you'll be the fastest with all the help turned on but lets face it, who are you really racing? Essentially we're out there getting our jollies.

When track day finally does come, I'll take a few laps with it all on, then go to MDM+Sport Plus+Sport to do some real learning. But in the canyons.. full DSC, but Sport EDC, Sport power. To cruise the strip... FULL POWER. haha, more just for flicking the gas in neutral.
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      05-28-2008, 06:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemcoska View Post
I agree on the scary as all hell with everything turned on. But to be on a track to learn your car, I would turn all the assist off. Learn to control lead foot disease and being to hard on the brakes coming in and hard on the gas coming out. It guaranteed that you'll be the fastest with all the help turned on but lets face it, who are you really racing? Essentially we're out there getting our jollies.

When track day finally does come, I'll take a few laps with it all on, then go to MDM+Sport Plus+Sport to do some real learning. But in the canyons.. full DSC, but Sport EDC, Sport power. To cruise the strip... FULL POWER. haha, more just for flicking the gas in neutral.
One instructor I had, would make me do cool down laps every session w/o touching the brakes. That was probably one of the best lessons I learned on how to modulate the gas and learn entry/exit speed(not that I'm good or anything).

So no MDM for you on backroads...hmm. What exactly was your reasoning for this? Didn't you feel that with DSC on you couldn't really get on the car much?
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      05-28-2008, 06:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ9 View Post
Lol no bueno indeed.

My last M was prior to the ZCP package(no M button)....so MDM will actually let you spin out? I thought to the limit and then it kicks in from what i can tell....so basically....your tires can break, but not spin? DSC on is really intrusive, given the power of this car.

What was strange on my e46M with the GC suspension; at the track w/DSC activated, the system barely even came on. Prior to the suspenion change, it was a whole different story.

I'm with you on starting conservative and then pushing the more and more as you go.

Shit, this is going to be an interesting weekend.
i spun out with MDM yep... but EDC was on stiffest. but then it was raining really hard so i bet no traction at all
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      05-28-2008, 06:54 PM   #10
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Well I'd just rather push the car on a crash where there's run off rather than ending up at the bottom of the Malibu Canyons.

From the Owner's Manual:
"Only at the absolute limit of stability does the system intervene[...] In such situations, additional corrective steering maneuvers may be necessary"

Granted the manual is super conservative, but chances are, if you need the stability control, its because you are flying by the limits of the the car's stability, not eeking up on it. The computer can only do so much, the rest is inertia. I guess I'm just jaded from riding Palos Verdes in my buddy's Z4 and he went straight when the road went left b/c he decided he was coming in too hot. I felt the DSC and the ABS kick in, but it was just like floating.
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      05-28-2008, 08:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ9 View Post
I agree with both your statements. My concern was as you stated, having a consistent basis in which i would know prior to entering a corner how the car will set up and react....with Sport I feel this way, in Normal(Dynamic) i think there is a small lag in which the suspension adjusts to the turn at hand. The trade off to this is that I feel, once actually in the corner, Normal gets through it much better(less plow or oversteer than Sport), especially off camber turns...it is just the part prior to turn in that throws me off with the Normal setting.

Maybe Normal will be the option of choice, when i finally get used to it.

Also, to address your comment on setting coilovers...it is indeed a pain, however there is a science to it that we think we all know; where setting EDC is just a mystery box based on asumptions for me at this point.

Thanks guys!
Sounds like your thinking through this logically. If you start off in Sport EDC you'll know exactly what the car will do after a few laps. I haven't driven EDC on the track and I haven't been able to get ahead of the system on the street. It would make sense that reaction time at initial turn in is where you potentially could see an issue. But, if a delay is consistent, then at least even that would be predictable. Looking forward to your feedback after you get a real world report.
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      05-31-2008, 09:46 PM   #12
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Fellas..made it back in one piece from Laguna Seca. Will post pics and a write up a little later, but wanted to simply say..this iteration of the M3 is insane on the track and absolutely kicks ass... basically it is the complete package out of the box and leaves my old modified e46M3 in the dust....which says a lot.
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      06-01-2008, 10:49 AM   #13
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Very nice sir, post up a review of your settings too!
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      06-09-2008, 04:52 AM   #14
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Normal should yield better performance than Sport although Sport will most likely "feel" faster as you will bounce around more. Also, I use MDM, which seems to be a good trade-off for me at this point.
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      06-09-2008, 08:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
i dont have ur answer, but MDM + stiffest damping is no bueno. i spun out on local roads a few times on friday. that shit can get scary. if i go, or when i go im gonna try full DSC + normal first, then if that bothers me i will only activated MDM. btw make sure ur seats are hugging u well, coz i was hurting after i spun out like 5 times trying to figure out the right settings hahah
Sounds like someone needs a driving instructor. I very much doubt these cars are naturally prone to spinning.
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      06-09-2008, 08:41 PM   #16
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I Tried both the firmer settings on track and I found that the hardest setting(sport?) worked the best for myself.I found that in the normal setting the car was floaty over a 90-100 mph bumpy rise when turning at the limit and felt much more buttoned down with the firmest setting.That was probally the only place where there was a dramatic difference between the 2 and to be frank,I do not think there was much a difference between the settings elsewhere on the track speedwise but I did like the feel better on the sport setting.

I do not how you could spin one of these cars with MDM engaged as it really does kick in early and even with no stability system engaged I think you would have to have zero car control skills in order to loop it!You can get this car very sideways and have no problems catching it IMO.
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      06-09-2008, 10:09 PM   #17
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so DJ9 - which did you prefer - normal or sport?
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      06-10-2008, 12:25 AM   #18
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Someone indeed needs an instructor...

I had a chance to push pretty hard on some rural twisties last weekend and found:

-MDM is still very conservative. I had it (the warning light) lit up like a xmas tree when pushing it.
-Grip limit is very high (evidenced by the skidpad and slalom numbers) even when comining out of slow corners with DSC off and heavy on the throttle - that results in very little tail out action.
-EDC = Sport feels noticeably stiffer and FEELS faster. It feel closer to a traditional track set up compared to Normal mode. However, I felt and believe the BMW folks who say Normal is faster in almost all circumstances.
-M-DCT was fantastic, no problems with downshifting under high rpm and high braking (however did not quite explore downshifting right at the traction limit). The clutch is simply delayed slightly and slowed to not upset traction.
-No brake fade (a slower 2-3-4 gear road) but some slight noise as the brakes got quite warm.
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      06-10-2008, 09:48 AM   #19
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it could also be that BMW beleives Normal is faster and safer for journalists. could be that sport is faster in more experienced hands. It will really take someone doing time trials to determine this. it also could vary depending on driver style and preference.
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      06-12-2008, 06:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
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it could also be that BMW beleives Normal is faster and safer for journalists. could be that sport is faster in more experienced hands. It will really take someone doing time trials to determine this. it also could vary depending on driver style and preference.
Or it could be that BMW is correct and honest and that EDC in its normal/active mode is good enough to offer better track performance with better comfort. Purists would likely never believe this even if "proven".
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      06-12-2008, 06:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Or it could be that BMW is correct and honest and that EDC in its normal/active mode is good enough to offer better track performance with better comfort. Purists would likely never believe this even if "proven".
Feel & confidence has a lot more to do with going fast on a challenging track.If it feels faster ,it more than likely will be.The problem that I found in the normal mode is that there was a lot more verticle movement before the car took a set in the corner,not feeling very tied down.In the sport mode it felt a lot more like my old Touring car E30,but a lot slower in transitions because of the extra 1200lbs of weight!
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      06-12-2008, 06:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Feel & confidence has a lot more to do with going fast on a challenging track.If it feels faster ,it more than likely will be.The problem that I found in the normal mode is that there was a lot more verticle movement before the car took a set in the corner,not feeling very tied down.In the sport mode it felt a lot more like my old Touring car E30,but a lot slower in transitions because of the extra 1200lbs of weight!
Feel can mislead a lot of drivers. Since the springs and not the shocks control how a car sets, rest assured both sport and normal have the same amount of movement to them.

A lot of people think a car they have to fight feels fast. Usually its not but because they as the driver are busy they conclude the result was better.

This will be easy to test once we have data logs from the cars on a track.
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