BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-26-2008, 10:02 AM   #1
chuck92103
Major
 
chuck92103's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 535i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Socal

Posts: 1,209
iTrader: (0)

GM sucking big time

GM stock hit the lowest point since 1955.

If you would have bought GM stock 50 years ago and held on to it, you would have lost money adjusted for inflation.

Source:CNBC

Starbucks has a larger market cap.

GM worth around 6 billion, Toyota 150 billion.

Sad times for U.S. auto makers.
__________________
2011 535i
2008 VW GTI
chuck92103 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 11:00 AM   #2
Zeeman
Captain
 
Zeeman's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335 SG
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 661
iTrader: (0)

is it any suprise? Despite some improvements their product line is basically shit, they have zero brand identity, continue with all these stupid divisions that just rebrand the same shit car, and have the worst marketing in the business. Toyota can cover the entire world market with basically two brands: Toyota & Lexus, and produces a quality, well targeted product. (I know that they also have Scion, but it's still a very niche brand). And this is achieved with a CEO and senior management team that is paid a fraction of what GM's CEO & top managers make - Wagoner and the rest of the morons running GM company should be fired.
Zeeman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 11:37 AM   #3
gshb
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LA

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

whats worse is that GM is probably in the best position to make a comeback than Ford or Chrysler.
gshb is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 11:45 AM   #4
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,468
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
Hey, someone needs to make crappy rental cars, right?
AWD Addict is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 11:45 AM   #5
phantom330
Captain
 
phantom330's Avatar
 
Drives: e93 335i
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: OH

Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)

I want to like GM and feel their products have improved slightly (at least in design), but they need to get rid of Pontiac for good and possibly start calling saturn Opel to give it a more exotic european type of look. I wish they made good products and actually made them in the US most of the time and I'd love to buy one. I don't want to support foreign economies, but if the US products don't have the same quality I'm not going to buy a POS just because it was made by an American company, but assembled in canada or mexico
phantom330 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 12:15 PM   #6
ironjw
Major
 
ironjw's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 818

Posts: 1,417
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ironjw
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
Hey, someone needs to make crappy rental cars, right?
lol +1

None of the american cars appeal to me ... BMW's sexiness turned me on in an instant .. luxury, power, features, engine, handling FTW

Well I might be bias there because I was in love with my best friend's e90 lol.

BMW FTW
ironjw is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 01:17 PM   #7
vAnt826
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle

Posts: 1,418
iTrader: (3)

If you sat in a Pontiac Grand Prix lately (compliments of rental agencies) you will understand why GM is in the trash.
vAnt826 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 01:32 PM   #8
BMW F22
Major General
 
BMW F22's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M235i
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Around the Bay

Posts: 8,283
iTrader: (8)

It's not as simple as losing money because of their cars. It's also about GM's structure & culture. Most, if not all their workers are unionized so it's not like they can be fired for slacking off at work. They have no incentive to work hard at all. GM cars require more production time which translates into them paying their workers more (not to mention they're already getting paid more than most of the competition). I just hope that those workers realize that if they don't pick up the slack, they will be out of a job if GM goes down. I think last year they lost something like 10 billions??

GM is also ran by an old-school management team which was very resistant to change (until recently). I just hope they get their act together soon.
BMW F22 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 02:30 PM   #9
quagmire
I am Gundam
 
quagmire's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Cadillac ATS 3.6 AWD
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 1,157
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vAnt826 View Post
If you sat in a Pontiac Grand Prix lately (compliments of rental agencies) you will understand why GM is in the trash.
The Grand Prix is replaced by the G8 and has been out of production for a bit since Oshawa is being retooled to be a huge Flex Plant and is prepping to build the Camaro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny@JleviSW View Post
It's not as simple as losing money because of their cars. It's also about GM's structure & culture. Most, if not all their workers are unionized so it's not like they can be fired for slacking off at work. They have no incentive to work hard at all. GM cars require more production time which translates into them paying their workers more (not to mention they're already getting paid more than most of the competition). I just hope that those workers realize that if they don't pick up the slack, they will be out of a job if GM goes down. I think last year they lost something like 10 billions??

GM is also ran by an old-school management team which was very resistant to change (until recently). I just hope they get their act together soon.
2007 $39 billion loss was caused by a tax issue. Not an actual money loss. GM only has ~$26 billion in cash. They can't lose that much technically. The only person I like in GM right now is Lutz. I don't really give a hoot about the other executives. Lutz is the reason why we have good products right now like the CTS and Malibu.
quagmire is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 04:37 PM   #10
mmm def
Colonel
 
mmm def's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 330i, 11 S4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NJ

Posts: 2,566
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to mmm def
I dunno GM has a lot of nice cars coming/out on the market..you have the new CTS, the G8, Camaro..even the crappy little Cobalt has a nice Turbo and some amazing handling, improved quality..etc.

Anyway...I am the last person to root for GM, but I have definitely seen improvement..much better than the other 2.
mmm def is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 07:32 PM   #11
vAnt826
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle

Posts: 1,418
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
The Grand Prix is replaced by the G8 and has been out of production for a bit since Oshawa is being retooled to be a huge Flex Plant and is prepping to build the Camaro.
Couple years too late The Grand Prix is still on new car lots, waiting to go to unfortunate owners.
vAnt826 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 09:19 PM   #12
AJayE92
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY L.I Born n Raised, Now In Boca Raton, FL

Posts: 1,582
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
it would take gross amount of 8 GM dealerships to buy out one Mcdonalds lol


jesus what has happened to the world
__________________

[JBE92335i]www.youtube.com/italiombiano
[Black Dakota Leather] [ZSP] [ZPP] [AA Xede] [iconz 830Z] [9500i]
[CF Kidney Grilles] [CF Vorsteiner PD Hood] [M-tech Sides] [Custom AngelEyes]
[Aero Lip] [Painted Reflectors/lowergrilles] [AC/S Roof Spoiler]
AJayE92 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 09:51 PM   #13
jetblk328i
Colonel
 
jetblk328i's Avatar
 
Drives: Jet blk 328i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New York, NY

Posts: 2,422
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
Hey, someone needs to make crappy rental cars, right?
+1 however i usually rent the nissan altima....
__________________
07 328i, jet black/black. heated seats, auto.
Mods:Chromed Grille,Ipod,BMW All Weather Floor Mats-if you call that a mod.
Mods Coming soon:,Blacklines,Chrome Tips, OEM xenons.......
jetblk328i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2008, 10:08 PM   #14
Kev
Resident Anesthesiologist
 
Kev's Avatar
 
Drives: VW bug with a misplaced engine
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 8,815
iTrader: (24)

Garage List
Here, we have Zipcars, so I can remain faithful to BMW by renting Mini's or 328s, LOL~
__________________
kev { divinum est sedate dolorem }
Kev is offline   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2008, 08:26 AM   #15
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
 
UltimateBMW's Avatar
 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

Posts: 3,287
iTrader: (0)

If Ford would bring the Mondeo over to the states they would be in much better standing.

The only reason I can think of why they haven't yet is because its such a better quality and looking car that it would seem out of place with their current customer base. Probably out of price range of their current customer base as well. However, I think it is alittle insulting that their best made car isn't even sold in their home country.
__________________
UltimateBMW is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2008, 09:08 AM   #16
uberschnell
Brigadier General
 
uberschnell's Avatar
 
Drives: // 135i //, X5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 3,422
iTrader: (44)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny@JleviSW View Post
It's not as simple as losing money because of their cars. It's also about GM's structure & culture. Most, if not all their workers are unionized so it's not like they can be fired for slacking off at work. They have no incentive to work hard at all. GM cars require more production time which translates into them paying their workers more (not to mention they're already getting paid more than most of the competition). I just hope that those workers realize that if they don't pick up the slack, they will be out of a job if GM goes down. I think last year they lost something like 10 billions??

GM is also ran by an old-school management team which was very resistant to change (until recently). I just hope they get their act together soon.
So, the blame rests on the people who have the least influence on the way the company is managed? At what point do you hold the people who are paid millions accountable for Managing? I'm sure this is what the hapless leaders of GM would love you to believe.

"General Motors shareholders blasted the company's chief executive for raking in huge salaries and bonuses while the automaker has struggled financially, but a proposal to give investors a say on executive pay was soundly defeated on Tuesday.

Shareholders also defeated a proposal under which at least 75 percent of future stock options and restricted stock awards for senior executives would be tied to the company's performance.

John Lauve of Holly, Mich., who sponsored the proposal on performance pay, said GM's market share, stock price and credit rating have decreased in recent years, but management and directors have not been held accountable.
"We either need to change this company or have the Japanese come in and run the whole place," said Lauve, whose proposal received only 16 percent support in preliminary voting results.

The proposal to give shareholders an annual advisory vote on executive compensation fared better, receiving almost 32 percent support, but fell fall short of passage. The sponsor of the proposal, John Chevedden of Redondo Beach, Calif., said the company successfully blocked an effort to have a similar measure put to a vote at last year's annual meeting.

"It's long overdue, especially given the results this year of our company," Chevedden said, referring to GM's $38.7 billion loss in 2007.

According to an Associated Press calculation, GM chairman and chief executive officer Rick Wagoner received compensation valued at $15.7 million for 2007, up 64 percent from the previous year.

"I came to scold you for your greed," Mary Ann Wiley of Seattle told Wagoner.

Wiley, 77, said she has owned General Motors Corp. stock for 70 years, but that Tuesday marked her first annual meeting. Wiley said afterward that GM has moved far too slowly in developing new and better products and embracing next-generation fuels, and that management should not receive higher salaries and bonuses when the company is struggling."
__________________
- 08 135i - Wavetrac LSD, AST 4100, Swift springs, Brembo GT brakes, M3 front sway, Meyle HD links, Dinan Camber plates, Whiteline subframe bushings, M3 rear guide and upper link, M3 front control arms, HP custom M3 front Strut brace, Megan rear control arms, F30 brake shields -
uberschnell is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2008, 01:01 PM   #17
vAnt826
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle

Posts: 1,418
iTrader: (3)

Disgusting. Thats why people need to continue selling GM shares. To even own one share of the company, you must be a fool.
vAnt826 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2008, 02:45 PM   #18
BMW F22
Major General
 
BMW F22's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M235i
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Around the Bay

Posts: 8,283
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magna3 View Post
So, the blame rests on the people who have the least influence on the way the company is managed? At what point do you hold the people who are paid millions accountable for Managing? I'm sure this is what the hapless leaders of GM would love you to believe.

Actually it's management that is ultimately responsible. Like I said they are too committed in their own/old ways that it's hard for them to embrace new technologies and make innovative products. We've seen this happen to many large corporations before (IBM and Ford come to mind as examples). Ford has actually been trying to restructure itself to keep up the changes (both locally as well as internationally).

This is not to say that the workers aren't to blame. I mean let's face it, if union workers cannot be fired for not performing at 100%, they simply have no incentive to work hard. And it seems that most, if not all, of GM's workers are union workers so it's going to be pretty hard to get rid of them even though the company is losing billions.
BMW F22 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2008, 10:43 PM   #19
uberschnell
Brigadier General
 
uberschnell's Avatar
 
Drives: // 135i //, X5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 3,422
iTrader: (44)

Well, if I worked for a bunch of crooks who would just as soon cut your job, benefits, and salary to line their own pockets I'd want representation also.
__________________
- 08 135i - Wavetrac LSD, AST 4100, Swift springs, Brembo GT brakes, M3 front sway, Meyle HD links, Dinan Camber plates, Whiteline subframe bushings, M3 rear guide and upper link, M3 front control arms, HP custom M3 front Strut brace, Megan rear control arms, F30 brake shields -
uberschnell is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2008, 10:50 PM   #20
quagmire
I am Gundam
 
quagmire's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Cadillac ATS 3.6 AWD
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 1,157
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magna3 View Post
Well, if I worked for a bunch of crooks who would just as soon cut your job, benefits, and salary to line their own pockets I'd want representation also.
So earning $70K a year is justified for an assembly line worker out of High School? While I am not excusing GM's POS management,but the UAW is also at fault.

Last edited by quagmire; 06-29-2008 at 02:02 PM.
quagmire is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-29-2008, 01:20 PM   #21
ages944
Captain
 
ages944's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs

Posts: 990
iTrader: (0)

GM is making the right decisions for a comeback. Decisions in the auto industry take years to implement, and are never simple as 'bring car x here and it would solve all their problems.' GM quality is getting better, and the cars are getting more interesting. If they keep on their current trajectory, I predict that they can weather this storm in five years.

The secret here is simply honest cars at competitive prices. That's all most people want out of any car... value. GM is slowly doing this. Ford will take longer because they have a culture problem to deal with first (any company that thinks putting a Lincoln badge on a pickup truck is a good idea definitely has culture issues). As for Chrysler... do they still make cars? They should just call themselves Dodge and be done with it.
__________________
BMW : Sine qua non

Mods: Blacklines | Rear Seat Power Outlets | Rear Fog Lights | Ashtray Garage Door Opener
ages944 is offline   Poland
0
Reply With Quote
      06-30-2008, 02:49 PM   #22
Los Angeles
Steve Forte Rio
 
Drives: 08' 328i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 90036

Posts: 2,396
iTrader: (0)

GM, Ford, Dodge.

Shitty cars. Shitty business. They're their own worst enemy.
Los Angeles is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:06 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST