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      06-26-2008, 12:45 PM   #23
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This law was illegal and now it was overturned.

I live less than 2 miles from D.C. and I can't say im happy about it, however this law was illegal and it was bound to happen.

However I can happily say:

All firearms in the district have to be registered to be legal
All automatic and semi-automatic handguns are still illegal in the district.
No handguns can be carried outside the home. All guns must be kept inside the home in the district.
Save storage rules for handguns in the home will be created and applied.

I believe americans have the right to bare arms. However I feel that the states have the right to restrict and limit the amount of guns you own, the type of guns you own, and where you take those guns within the state.
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      06-26-2008, 12:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
"It looks like the D.C. ban overshot the runway. It looks like it was unconstitutional." This is a quote from BHO. He continued to say absolutely nothing in many words. His MO often seems to be to state the obvious as if the hearer didn't know there was a decision. Maybe BKsBimmer should have been listening to his messiah. But then, he would just get drivel that masks the great disappointment over such a defeat.

How do you feel about it BKsBimmer?
Defeat? Did you think Obama may not care that much? Maybe he owns guns, and wants to have them in the White House.
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      06-26-2008, 01:02 PM   #25
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D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty expressed disappointment today with the Supreme Court's decision striking down the city's gun law, warning that, "More handguns will lead to more handgun violence."
~
The mayor added that he believes he speaks for District residents in saying, "We are disappointed in the ruling. We wish it had gone the other way, but we respect the court's" decision.
~
The District's law, passed during a crime wave in 1976, was widely viewed as the most restrictive in the country, and the court struck down its key provisions. The ruling comes at a time when police are trying to curb violence in many neighborhoods, including the Trinidad section of Northeast Washington, where they recently ran a checkpoint of motorists. The city has had 85 homicides so far this year, one less than at the same point in 2007.
~
Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a group favoring tighter firearms controls, said that the ruling was "quite clearly" a defeat for the organization's legal position.
~
"This takes off the idea that you can have a near-total ban on guns, especially guns for self-defense," Helmke said.
~
The National Rifle Association hailed the ruling as "a great moment in American history."
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      06-26-2008, 01:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Who is the militia?

For your review:
Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The militia is the people. A militia may form as needed. Isn't it people keeping their own weapons for defense? If not that, then what is it? Spell it out for us.
Sounds to me like the well-regulated militia should bear arms.

You have to look at it in the 1791 context during which it was drafted. It was based on the Virginia Declaration of Rights, serving to limit the power of the government by a militia.

The Supreme Court is changing the Constitution. What a fucking travesty.
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      06-26-2008, 01:08 PM   #27
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The basics of the ruling:
In sum, we hold that the District’s ban on handgun
possession in the home violates the Second Amendment,
as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful fire-
arm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate
self-defense. Assuming that Heller is not disqualified
from the exercise of Second Amendment rights, the Dis-
trict must permit him to register his handgun and must
issue him a license to carry it in the home.
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      06-26-2008, 01:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Defeat? Did you think Obama may not care that much? Maybe he owns guns, and wants to have them in the White House.
I never thought Obama may not care that much about the application of the 2nd Amendment. Did you? Do you now? Tell us what has been Obama's position before the court decision.
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      06-26-2008, 01:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Sounds to me like the well-regulated militia should bear arms.

You have to look at it in the 1791 context during which it was drafted. It was based on the Virginia Declaration of Rights, serving to limit the power of the government by a militia.

The Supreme Court is changing the Constitution. What a fucking travesty.
I would suggest you read the opinion. Justice Scalia analyzes in depth on the text and history of the amendment, including the contemporary state constitution provisions.
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      06-26-2008, 01:16 PM   #30
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Barack Obama on Gun Control
Democratic Jr Senator (IL)

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

From the website ontheissues.org

Seems like gun control issues are pretty clear along party lines, at least for presidential candidates.

I'm sure some southern Dems are gun proponents, though.
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      06-26-2008, 01:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Sounds to me like the well-regulated militia should bear arms.

You have to look at it in the 1791 context during which it was drafted. It was based on the Virginia Declaration of Rights, serving to limit the power of the government by a militia.

The Supreme Court is changing the Constitution. What a fucking travesty.
Yeah, that is how I interpret it. Just in case the PEOPLE( as in society, etc not individuals) need to overthrow the government due to corruption they have the right to form an armed militia. I vote to spend the money to go back in time to grab Jefferson or who ever wrote the 2nd amendment so we can clarify this messy situation.
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      06-26-2008, 01:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Barack Obama on Gun Control
Democratic Jr Senator (IL)

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

From the website ontheissues.org

Seems like gun control issues are pretty clear along party lines, at least for presidential candidates.

I'm sure some southern Dems are gun proponents, though.
Chicago Tribune on Nov. 20, 2007.

In a story entitled, "Court to Hear Gun Case," the Chicago Tribune's James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins wrote ". . . the campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he '...believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional.'"
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      06-26-2008, 01:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
You know I never pay serious attention to anything you post. But this one is definitely my bad. I didn't realize this WAS the Supreme Court Decision everyone was waiting to hear.

Oh well ... guess DC will be back to the murder capital of the world. Great job Scalia et al.

I guess ppl like yourself won't be happy until you are completely enslaved by the government. You must not like freedom very much.
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      06-26-2008, 01:30 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Sounds to me like the well-regulated militia should bear arms.

You have to look at it in the 1791 context during which it was drafted. It was based on the Virginia Declaration of Rights, serving to limit the power of the government by a militia.

The Supreme Court is changing the Constitution. What a fucking travesty.
You should read the oral argument transcript I linked to earlier (see here). The justices were well aware of the circumstances surrounding the drafting of this amendment. Walter Dellinger made a valiant but indefensible argument, saying essentially what you said above (and even having a fallback that even if there is a personal right to bear arms, the DC law is reasonable).

This is a touchy subject, no doubt, but the decision is well reasoned IMO.
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      06-26-2008, 01:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
What percentage of gun enthusiasts actually care about other parts of the constitution?
Just had to re-state that. I guess other rights aren't as thrilling as shooting a gun.

Scotty, you a member of the ACLU, that you're such a vehement supporter of the constitution?

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      06-26-2008, 01:38 PM   #36
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When can we read the dissenting opinion?
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      06-26-2008, 01:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Just had to re-state that. I guess other rights aren't as thrilling as shooting a gun.

Scotty, you a member of the ACLU, that you're such a vehement supporter of the constitution?
I have supported the ACLU in the past when I believed they were on the right side of a constitutional issue. Sadly their track record of late has been to pervert rather than uphold the original meaning of the Constitution.
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      06-26-2008, 01:40 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
When can we read the dissenting opinion?
Same link I have given previously. The document contains the syllabus, opinion, and both dissents.

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-cont.../06/07-290.pdf
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      06-26-2008, 01:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
Oh well ... guess DC will be back to the murder capital of the world. Great job Scalia et al.
DC was known as the "murder capital" of the country (not the world!) in the early 1990s -- that's about 15 years after the District instituted its gun ban. The frequency of murders in DC and the gun ban are unrelated.

OTOH, major crime has gone way down since the early 1990s. It's gentrification. As people got wealthier and traffic got worse here, money began pouring into the District from people moving in. Formerly bad areas have been gentrified, and the major crime statistics dropped significantly.

The U-Street corridor, around 14th Street (basically anything from 17th St all the way to Capitol Hill) used to be an absolute hell hole, an area still reeling from the 1968 riots. It has gotten so much better, it's incredible. Adams Morgan, up 16th Street near Columbia Heights and Malcolm X park, the hookers on L around 12th Street... does anyone remember how horrible these places were? Things have gotten way better.
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      06-26-2008, 02:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Just had to re-state that. I guess other rights aren't as thrilling as shooting a gun.

Scotty, you a member of the ACLU, that you're such a vehement supporter of the constitution?
I support the ACLJ.

And in case there is any misunderstanding, though I do not own any gun, I support the right of individual citizens to keep and bear arms.
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      06-26-2008, 03:38 PM   #41
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Gun-Control Supporters Show Outrage

Senator Dianne Feinstein, a former mayor of San Francisco, which also restricts the owning of guns, reacted strongly to the ruling, saying she was “viscerally affected” by it and worried for the nation’s safety.

“I speak as somebody who has watched this nation with its huge homicide rate, when countries that have sane restrictions on weapons do not have that homicide rate,” she said. “And I happen to believe that this is now going to open the door to litigation against every gun safety law that states have passed — assault weapons bans, trigger locks, and all the rest of it.”
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      06-26-2008, 03:58 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Gun-Control Supporters Show Outrage

Senator Dianne Feinstein, ......
“I speak as somebody who has watched this nation with its huge homicide rate, when countries that have sane restrictions on weapons do not have that homicide rate,” she said. “And I happen to believe that this is now going to open the door to litigation against every gun safety law that states have passed — assault weapons bans, trigger locks, and all the rest of it.”
Is she really that stupid? First what countries is she refering to? The 2 most recent countries to implement these "sane" restrictions as she calls them are Australia and England:

(USA Today) Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. Manslaughter rose by 16%.

England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.

And then there is her slippery slope arguement that gun safety laws will be next. The decision made by the Supreme Court has nothing to do with existing laws that require trigger locks etc. This is the same arguement extreme conservatives use when debating gay marriage... "What's next marrying your dog?" Very poor/faulty arguement.
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      06-26-2008, 04:13 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Metak View Post
And then there is her slippery slope arguement that gun safety laws will be next. The decision made by the Supreme Court has nothing to do with existing laws that require trigger locks etc. This is the same arguement extreme conservatives use when debating gay marriage... "What's next marrying your dog?" Very poor/faulty arguement.
I think today's ruling does call into question laws that require trigger locks if those laws, render any lawful firearm in the home inoperable for the purpose of immediate self-defense.
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      06-26-2008, 04:30 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Metak View Post
And then there is her slippery slope arguement that gun safety laws will be next. The decision made by the Supreme Court has nothing to do with existing laws that require trigger locks etc. This is the same arguement extreme conservatives use when debating gay marriage... "What's next marrying your dog?" Very poor/faulty arguement.
The slippery slope argument is actually her best argument. And in the case of trigger locks, I thought this court ruling did deal with that to say that D.C. can't require trigger locks for firearms kept in the home.

And the bit about marrying your dog... if you can marry another man, you should be able to marry your dog. And by the same reasoning, polygamy would not be illegal.
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