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      06-24-2008, 04:32 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by SteelTorque View Post
+1

I've seen E60 M5's running 13.0 @ 111mph at the dragstrip 5-6 times in a row. They simply couldn't do any better at my track.

Magazine racing FTL!
Your track??? I want one of those! How much are they these days?
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      06-24-2008, 04:39 PM   #46
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      06-24-2008, 04:49 PM   #47
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Hahahahahaha!!!!
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      06-24-2008, 06:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Your track??? I want one of those! How much are they these days?
How much are what?
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      06-24-2008, 06:56 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTorque View Post
OMG! The M3 lost a race to a direct competitor? Impossible! No way!

M3 owners, pull your head out of your fat ass.

I can hardly wait to see most M3 owners running 13.0 sec on average at the track.
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Originally Posted by STIto335 View Post
first off the M3 should go mid 12's easily and those are only the people who post their results, I can only imagine how many m3 drivers go to the track and are too embarrassed to post up their times because they are in the high 13's and 14's.
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Originally Posted by SteelTorque View Post
+1

I've seen E60 M5's running 13.0 @ 111mph at the dragstrip 5-6 times in a row. They simply couldn't do any better at my track.

Magazine racing FTL!
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Originally Posted by SteelTorque View Post
How much are what?
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      06-24-2008, 07:01 PM   #50
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Once again for all the kiddies out there.


I will end the debate. Not with stupid street racing, quit doing this people.

The M3 is faster, period.







Two races from roll and standing. (Races start about 1:20 in the video) Stock cars, two guys in each car.

Race one, the RS4 gets killed.

Race two from standing, RS4 gets a huge jump, but the M3 runs her down easily.

I love the RS4, an awesome car. You have to take into account, it has been out awhile. A new RS4 is on the way.
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      06-24-2008, 07:27 PM   #51
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didn't m5board.com release a video of an e92 m3 beating an rs4 by multiple buslenghts..as it should?

lol
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      06-24-2008, 07:42 PM   #52
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Racing on public roads through traffic lights and all (it doesn't matter that they are green). These guys are idiots whose licences should be taken away...

RS4 is no match for the M3 on the track. At the limit, as expected, it drifts away while the M3 keeps the line while cornering. Understeer sucks--especially if you paid $80k for it! That experience reminded me why I bought the M3 to begin with...
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      06-24-2008, 07:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
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How much are what?
Inside joke, since you said "my track". Meant to be funny.
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      06-26-2008, 04:00 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Once again for all the kiddies out there.


I will end the debate. Not with stupid street racing, quit doing this people.

The M3 is faster, period.







Two races from roll and standing. (Races start about 1:20 in the video) Stock cars, two guys in each car.

Race one, the RS4 gets killed.

Race two from standing, RS4 gets a huge jump, but the M3 runs her down easily.

I love the RS4, an awesome car. You have to take into account, it has been out awhile. A new RS4 is on the way.
Yeah great video right there.

I too agree the Rs4 is a badass of a car (friend has one, driven it plenty) but personally, i do prefer the M3 more. Hence i'm on a m3 forum. hahaha
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      06-26-2008, 05:21 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Racing on public roads through traffic lights and all (it doesn't matter that they are green). These guys are idiots whose licences should be taken away...

RS4 is no match for the M3 on the track. At the limit, as expected, it drifts away while the M3 keeps the line while cornering. Understeer sucks--especially if you paid $80k for it! That experience reminded me why I bought the M3 to begin with...
Understeer sucks does it. I can tell you with experience of someone who knows better that for road use understeer is your best friend you have. Unlike oversteer which usually snaps without warning understeer is progressive and is easier controlled.

If you have to skill to control oversteer at 80+mph then great it's a hoot but I know far to few on this or any website have the skills to feel fully confident to try and control such a thing.

Almost every road car has understeer built in near the limits of grip, it's a safety net and though the M3's might be pretty high up compared to the RS4 (which there is a reason for) but it is still there.

Let me ask the question : which is quicker, slight understeer is a fast swiping corner or oversteer? By the way it's a two pronged answer.
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      06-26-2008, 06:41 AM   #56
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How about we let The Stig settle this...





That should end the debate.
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      06-26-2008, 07:43 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWearScrubs View Post
How about we let The Stig settle this...





That should end the debate.
You are totally missing my point which I wrote just before this. On the road (not the track) understeer is your only friend, it's the thing that lets you know when the limit of grip are being reach and it's being done progressively unlike oversteer which in most cases isn't.

On this occasion the M3 was the quicker and that how I expected it to be but it's not always the case and that includes when it's the Stig that's doing the driving.





The point of these videos are to show that in different situations the rwd chassis even on the track doesn't always prove to be the winner. I have driven many awd cars on the roads for years now and I while they are uninspiring compared to a good rwd chassis they do perform extreme well at hiding to pace at which they go about the task in hand. But to think they suck or that understeer suck because it's Audi's way is wrong.
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      06-26-2008, 08:22 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Understeer sucks does it. I can tell you with experience of someone who knows better that for road use understeer is your best friend you have. Unlike oversteer which usually snaps without warning understeer is progressive and is easier controlled.

If you have to skill to control oversteer at 80+mph then great it's a hoot but I know far to few on this or any website have the skills to feel fully confident to try and control such a thing.

Almost every road car has understeer built in near the limits of grip, it's a safety net and though the M3's might be pretty high up compared to the RS4 (which there is a reason for) but it is still there.

Let me ask the question : which is quicker, slight understeer is a fast swiping corner or oversteer? By the way it's a two pronged answer.
Footie, I think we had this debate and it ended with T-Bone cracking a fantastic joke with the guy in the Audi driving off the road in search of snow!

I don't know that there is a single simple answer to your question above. Yes, you are right, if you experience oversteer at high speed, that can be problematic depending on your skill level, but that doesn't mean that you'll be faster in a car that will oversteer. I would assume it would depend on many other variables like suspension setup and rubber, etc.

What I commented on above is an RS4 underperforming mainly due to understeer. I would get on its bumper, which I guess pressured him to go faster, and we would dive into the same curve at the same speed, and I could see it starting to gradually drift out and miss the apex, whereas my car was planted, nowhere near its traction limits and went where I wanted it to go, so I didn't have to worry about oversteer or anything. This happened multiple times in a day...
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      06-26-2008, 08:37 AM   #59
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I think you need to check out their respect limits of cornering grip before making the assumption that the RS4's cornering ability is that much less because I will tell you that isn't the case, the M3 does have a slightly higher front end grip limit but only by about 1~2mph.

Think of it slightly differently, the M3 is believed to be much quicker in a straight line if the GTBoard video is anything to go by, so how much time will that on it's own save the M3 over a lap of the ring? If the answer is possibly 3 seconds then that means that the M3 could only pull out a 1 second lead in the corners against as you put it an under-performing RS4.

See my point, making statement as wide reaching as understeer sucks and the RS4 is an under-performer simply is not correct regardless if you dislike the brand for no other reason than they are a competitor.

Sorry Lucid for highlighting this and but I felt our comment needed addressing.
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      06-26-2008, 08:47 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I think you need to check out their respect limits of cornering grip before making the assumption that the RS4's cornering ability is that much less because I will tell you that isn't the case, the M3 does have a slightly higher front end grip limit but only by about 1~2mph.

Think of it slightly differently, the M3 is believed to be much quicker in a straight line if the GTBoard video is anything to go by, so how much time will that on it's own save the M3 over a lap of the ring? If the answer is possibly 3 seconds then that means that the M3 could only pull out a 1 second lead in the corners against as you put it an under-performing RS4.

See my point, making statement as wide reaching as understeer sucks and the RS4 is an under-performer simply is not correct regardless if you dislike the brand for no other reason than they are a competitor.

Sorry Lucid for highlighting this and but I felt our comment needed addressing.
Footie, I appreciate your opinion so no issues challenging my statement. However, you are missing a few things I think. My comment "understeer sucks" was somewhat of a joke, and you are reading too much into it. I have no specific dislike for any auto brand really. Who cares really. Just a play on words. Also, it was made in the context of track driving, so I wasn't talking about the road.

I made several personal observations about what happened to an RS4 around corners. Are you disputing those observations? I don't get it. How about Stig lapping the two cars above? How do you explain the 5 sec difference on a ~2:40 sec lap? Do those suggest that the RS4 is overperforming?
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      06-26-2008, 09:31 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I made several personal observations about what happened to an RS4 around corners. Are you disputing those observations? I don't get it. How about Stig lapping the two cars above? How do you explain the 5 sec difference on a ~2:40 sec lap? Do those suggest that the RS4 is overperforming?
No but then you do have to take it in the context that it's a TV programme. The 5 seconds is beyond anything anyone else has achieved which makes me think the Topgear version of events are not what they seem, think about it, if the M3 was 5 seconds quicker over 2:40 that would equal 13 seconds on it's ring time which has even trickier corners to deal with.

I'm not defending Audi or awd just because I currently own one but I feel some here think everything that doesn't carry a BMW brand is crap and want to address this. I have no problems with you or you comments personally and I hope you don't think I am taking a dig.

P.S.
AWD and Quattro especially requires a technique very similar to that employed for driving a 911, slow in and fast out, once you've got the basics they are bloody quick and ultra safety if a little boring.
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      06-26-2008, 09:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
No but then you do have to take it in the context that it's a TV programme. The 5 seconds is beyond anything anyone else has achieved which makes me think the Topgear version of events are not what they seem, think about it, if the M3 was 5 seconds quicker over 2:40 that would equal 13 seconds on it's ring time which has even trickier corners to deal with.

I'm not defending Audi or awd just because I currently own one but I feel some here think everything that doesn't carry a BMW brand is crap and want to address this. I have no problems with you or you comments personally and I hope you don't think I am taking a dig.

P.S.
AWD and Quattro especially requires a technique very similar to that employed for driving a 911, slow in and fast out, once you've got the basics they are bloody quick and ultra safety if a little boring.
It's cool Footie. Yes, the 5 sec gap in the video seems too much. Also, we were on a short and tight track. I would assume that would not favor the AWD setup, but on another track, things might have been rather different.
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      06-26-2008, 02:42 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
You are totally missing my point which I wrote just before this. On the road (not the track) understeer is your only friend, it's the thing that lets you know when the limit of grip are being reach and it's being done progressively unlike oversteer which in most cases isn't.

On this occasion the M3 was the quicker and that how I expected it to be but it's not always the case and that includes when it's the Stig that's doing the driving.



The point of these videos are to show that in different situations the rwd chassis even on the track doesn't always prove to be the winner. I have driven many awd cars on the roads for years now and I while they are uninspiring compared to a good rwd chassis they do perform extreme well at hiding to pace at which they go about the task in hand. But to think they suck or that understeer suck because it's Audi's way is wrong.
Footie, no offense but if you are driving hard enough on the public roads to care whether or not your car under or over steers at the limit I will eventually see you in my ER...

Slow down a bit for safety man...

I wasn't trying to knock the RS4, just giving a same day, same track, same driver example of the differences of the two.
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      06-26-2008, 04:32 PM   #64
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rs4 has resonators cut out and software power wise, m3 driver cant drive. didnt watch the videos but know the m3 came around the rs4 at about 130....matt ree im comin for you....
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      06-26-2008, 04:55 PM   #65
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My RS4 rocks, its fast and stable. Its hard to launch it effectivley but from a rolling start its pretty good. Remember its weight is more comparable to the M3 convetable than a coupe. The direct injected 4.2 in the RS4 revs to 8200rpm and has proven to be very reliable. My guess, put that 4.2 in a M3 and it smokes an all BMW M3. But in the end I am selling my RS4 and picking up an M3 coupe tomorrow.
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      06-28-2008, 12:45 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVested View Post
rs4 has resonators cut out and software power wise, m3 driver cant drive. didnt watch the videos but know the m3 came around the rs4 at about 130....im comin for you....
RS4 still has stock resonators in place, just a small H pipe to help exhaust flow, the M3 driver was new with the car, we will see a match up rs4 vs red e92 m3 sedan soon. correct? and the M3 didnt come around the rs4 at 130mph
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