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      06-14-2008, 03:10 PM   #1
Digital.James
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Question for you jewelry (diamond) experts

Okay so Im a sucker and a simp. Okay so now that's out of the way.

I'm shopping for engagement rings in Los Angeles with my GF, soon to be finance/wife. Sat down with a few jewelers, and got a few quotes. This seems like the best one, and wanted to get a opinion on price.

So the specs:
1.02 ct
H SI2
Excellent cut
14k white gold band
35 35 begets (I think that the size)

Total price: $4580.00

Anyone think this is a good deal? Or should I keep looking?
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      06-14-2008, 06:23 PM   #2
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Don't shop for a "DEAL"... Find a ring SHE LOVES... BE DONE WITH IT... Seriously.

No Really, don't waste any time trying to "Bargain SHOP", not if your girl is all wrapped up in having some huge freaking chunk of bling... (You poor bastard if she is)...

One other option though is having your rings custom made. Get something truly different from a local jeweler. Doing it this way you might be able to avoid the 400-700% markup.

But that's what I would do, find a something truly unique and special. Otherwise you are just getting one of 10K or so...

Also, avoid 14K gold, in much of the world you cannot even legally call it gold at 14K. 18K is a pretty good, 22k is about the best you'll find, Platinum is a good choice for bigger stones as it is stronger than hell.

But yeah, take your time, make sure she loves it, and then just buy the thing.

Cheers.

Oh and I'm not truly a Diamond expert, but I have my BFA in Metalsmithing and Jewelery. There are some very well respected small jewelers in the Edmonds WA area... Tom Shane isn't a bad choice nor is Jerods though of course you pay for a lot of their nationwide advertising. So I'd find a trusted Mom and Pop... Get something really special.
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      06-14-2008, 06:27 PM   #3
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It's not bad of a deal. Since it is H color, they usually mount those on platinum or white gold as the color is clearly not as good as D, E, or F. You won't be able to see the small inclusions with your naked eye, most likely. This most likely does not include a cert from GIA or some other rating system.
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      06-14-2008, 06:56 PM   #4
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Buy the stone first, then look for a setting.

You really want to focus on the cut. Next is color, then clarity. A flawless cut from GIA is what you want. The only reason to look at DEF stones is for investment purposes. Even an experienced diamond broker can't tell an H from an E without a very close side by side comparison between the two stones, or to a refrence set of stones. DEF is a suckers play, you're doing wise to go with GHI.

SI2 is fine, just look for the inclusion and see if it can be hidden behind the setting.
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      06-14-2008, 07:12 PM   #5
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thanks for the info
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      06-14-2008, 09:54 PM   #6
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Thanks guys. I am getting the ring custom made. We chose the stone first and then the extras next. She chose it all, I just sat there and said whatever you want baby.

Just wanted to get some second opinions before pulling the trigger.
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      06-14-2008, 09:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92phreak View Post
It's not bad of a deal. Since it is H color, they usually mount those on platinum or white gold as the color is clearly not as good as D, E, or F. You won't be able to see the small inclusions with your naked eye, most likely. This most likely does not include a cert from GIA or some other rating system.
He said it was GGL certified. BS?
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      06-14-2008, 10:12 PM   #8
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GGL is a mining company. They mine, facet and sell diamonds. Not exactly an independent appraisal like GIA.

You'll be able to get it appraised by an independent gemologist after you buy it to see if it really is what your dealer claims. I'd be a little more comfortable with a GIA certificate, but you'd be paying more for the diamond then too. If your dealer is on the level, you'll be able to return it if it does not appraise for what you paid.
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      06-15-2008, 07:36 PM   #9
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I recommend a few things:

1) If she's seen it already and loves it - you are done.

2) If you really want to explore it a bit more - check out http://www.pricescope.com. That site is to diamond rings what this site is to BMWs.

I found several tools on there to let me purchase a 1.3ct G VS1 round brilliant for $2K cheaper than in any brick and mortar store and I knew sight unseen that it was cut to exact ideal proportions by punching the numbers from the certificate into the tools on that website.

Good luck.
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      06-15-2008, 07:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital.James View Post
Okay so Im a sucker and a simp. Okay so now that's out of the way.

I'm shopping for engagement rings in Los Angeles with my GF, soon to be finance/wife. Sat down with a few jewelers, and got a few quotes. This seems like the best one, and wanted to get a opinion on price.

So the specs:
1.02 ct
H SI2
Excellent cut
14k white gold band
35 35 begets (I think that the size)

Total price: $4580.00

Anyone think this is a good deal? Or should I keep looking?
First, good luck with the proposal and a "few" things to follow

IMO, I believe that is a bit overpriced, though, last time I was shopping for one was about 11-12 years ago.

For the COLOR, I'd look at D, E, F.
For the CLARITY for VSS or VS (my wife's was SI1 with initially invisible "feather" that grew bigger).
Some cuts are priced higher than others...
1 CT is just fine size IMO...

As someone's mentioned above, look for the stone first, then for the setting...
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      06-15-2008, 10:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFan View Post
Buy the stone first, then look for a setting.

You really want to focus on the cut. Next is color, then clarity. A flawless cut from GIA is what you want. The only reason to look at DEF stones is for investment purposes. Even an experienced diamond broker can't tell an H from an E without a very close side by side comparison between the two stones, or to a refrence set of stones. DEF is a suckers play, you're doing wise to go with GHI.

SI2 is fine, just look for the inclusion and see if it can be hidden behind the setting.
Agree except for the clarity...for a ring...I would not go less than...VVS1 or 2 maybe a VS stone if it is well cut...

The cut is the most important...NEVER view a stone mounted...only look at loose stones...make and appt and they should have 5 or so stones with your specs ready for you to see
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      06-15-2008, 11:30 PM   #12
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dont listen to these guys. get what you think your GF would like. whatever the specs are, buy within your means. the specs are just for bitches who like to compare their sh*t..

i'll reiterate that cut is the most important. if it's cut well, an H, SI2 can sparkle like a mofo.. more than a badly cut D, IF.
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      06-15-2008, 11:39 PM   #13
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VVS1 or 2 is useless in a ring - that means the inclusion can only be seen under a scope! Who the hell is going to look at your ring under a scope? VS1/2 is visible under a loupe - still not going to be going around work or a cocktail party with a loupe checkin' out da bling!

If you can find an SI1 or 2 with the inclusion in the "right" place, a good jeweler will make it disappear. If you have one near the surface, and you can hide it behind a prong on the setting, you won't be able to see it without unmounting the ring. It won't affect the fire in the least, so you can purchase much more diamond this way.

The only thing that matters in a diamond is the "fire". It's the way the light is refracted inside the stone. What goes into creating that "fire"?

First is cut - without cut, color and clarity are worthless. Fire is the internal refraction in the stone, and that is the result of a perfect cut, which subscribes to the proportions for the type of cut, and makes sure no light leaks out of the stone. In addition to the cut, you want to make sure you do not have a culet. "No Culet" means that the diamond forms to a precise point at the bottom of the stone, and it is not broken or chipped off. Inspect this carefully on loose stones, as a stone with "No Culet" on it's rating card can develop a culet if it is not handled properly. This will result in a noticeable dark spot in the table of the ring, as light will leak out the bottom.

Second is color - obviously a perfect D (colorless) will appear brighter than some piss-yellow Z color. But really, the GHI class of color (near colorless) will produce 99.9% of the fire for 1/2 the price of a D stone. Compare them side by side, 2 stones of equal specs, but one D and one H - you will be hard pressed to tell them apart until you put them side by side on a piece of white paper.

Last is the inclusion - obviously a big black chunk of raw carbon or some other impurity will ruin the fire in the stone. But a small inclusion, even one barely visible to the naked eye, will not reduce the fire of the stone.


I'm not a gemologist, but given a pile of stones and an hour or so, I can usually pull out a bargain. My wife's diamond earings were picked by me, and unless you know where to look, you can not tell them from sets costing 10 times as much. And you'll need a loupe to see the differences.
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      06-16-2008, 12:43 AM   #14
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Thanks for all the good input. Gave me a lot to think about!
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      06-16-2008, 02:32 PM   #15
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Thanks for all the good input. Gave me a lot to think about!
This site is helpful http://www.bluenile.com
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      06-16-2008, 07:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFan View Post
VVS1 or 2 is useless in a ring - that means the inclusion can only be seen under a scope! Who the hell is going to look at your ring under a scope? VS1/2 is visible under a loupe - still not going to be going around work or a cocktail party with a loupe checkin' out da bling!

If you can find an SI1 or 2 with the inclusion in the "right" place, a good jeweler will make it disappear. If you have one near the surface, and you can hide it behind a prong on the setting, you won't be able to see it without unmounting the ring. It won't affect the fire in the least, so you can purchase much more diamond this way.

The only thing that matters in a diamond is the "fire". It's the way the light is refracted inside the stone. What goes into creating that "fire"?

First is cut - without cut, color and clarity are worthless. Fire is the internal refraction in the stone, and that is the result of a perfect cut, which subscribes to the proportions for the type of cut, and makes sure no light leaks out of the stone. In addition to the cut, you want to make sure you do not have a culet. "No Culet" means that the diamond forms to a precise point at the bottom of the stone, and it is not broken or chipped off. Inspect this carefully on loose stones, as a stone with "No Culet" on it's rating card can develop a culet if it is not handled properly. This will result in a noticeable dark spot in the table of the ring, as light will leak out the bottom.

Second is color - obviously a perfect D (colorless) will appear brighter than some piss-yellow Z color. But really, the GHI class of color (near colorless) will produce 99.9% of the fire for 1/2 the price of a D stone. Compare them side by side, 2 stones of equal specs, but one D and one H - you will be hard pressed to tell them apart until you put them side by side on a piece of white paper.

Last is the inclusion - obviously a big black chunk of raw carbon or some other impurity will ruin the fire in the stone. But a small inclusion, even one barely visible to the naked eye, will not reduce the fire of the stone.


I'm not a gemologist, but given a pile of stones and an hour or so, I can usually pull out a bargain. My wife's diamond earings were picked by me, and unless you know where to look, you can not tell them from sets costing 10 times as much. And you'll need a loupe to see the differences.
You are correct...except that a stone with visible inclusions...usually will loose its "fire"

Coupled with the fact that many SI stones are cut to maximize size and not " brilliance"...good luck trying to find a properly cut SI stone for a ring...that hopefully will be worn for 50+ years...

Better quality stones...attract better cutters and are cut in better proportions...
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      06-16-2008, 07:44 PM   #17
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Here's my 2cents

I wouldn't buy a diamond from GGL cert. Only certs I'll go for is GIA or AGS (AGS>GIA>>>GGL).

H color...you will see a tint of yellow at certain lighting (if you have good eyes) and will definately see yellow when compare to a better color grade next to each other. You know how girls/women gather around with their blings, this is when the color grade comes into play...lol

Clarity SI2....now SI2 are very tricky, you will see inclusions by 10X magnify. Most SI are not visiable to the human eye, but there are SI2s that will be noticable. Make sure it is "eye clean". Talk to the sales or look at the cert.

Cut...since this is a GGL cert, I'm guessing their EX cut is just a very good cut compare to the other majors
Can you get me the proportions of the diamond and I'll see how it performs

Price....its ok, you get what you pay for

if you're in a budget, look for 0.85+ carrat with excellent cut / G color / SI1 clarity (eye clean) / and with Fluorescence from Faint-Strong blue but avoid very strong (pls read more on Fluorescence)
There's alot more to the 4Cs....like the cutting/angels/proportion is very important, its how the diamond perform.
don't just go buy a diamond without learning about them...is a huge investment

Last edited by ska///235i; 06-16-2008 at 10:20 PM.
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      06-16-2008, 09:04 PM   #18
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I love this thread. Right on the time when i'm shopping for one too.
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      06-17-2008, 09:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFan View Post
VVS1 or 2 is useless in a ring - that means the inclusion can only be seen under a scope! Who the hell is going to look at your ring under a scope? VS1/2 is visible under a loupe - still not going to be going around work or a cocktail party with a loupe checkin' out da bling!
Makes sense now...
But look at my post/experience...SI inclusion can possibly grow (faster than the VS trace of impurity)...
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      06-17-2008, 12:29 PM   #20
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Makes sense now...
But look at my post/experience...SI inclusion can possibly grow (faster than the VS trace of impurity)...
Well technically a feather is a chip or fissure in the stone, and you are absolutely correct - they can and will grow. A fissure will grow at least, a chip shouldn't change. These shouldn't be counted in the clarity grading of the stone, but their location should be marked and noted on the GIA or other certification.

Technically, an inclusion is a mineral or uncompressed carbon in the stone. These shouldn't crack or lead to a crack or feather in the stone once it has been faceted. If the stone were going to fracture on a major inclusion, it would do so during mining or faceting.
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      06-17-2008, 03:08 PM   #21
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I highly recommend BlueNile.com... I purchased a 1.1 carat, VVS, colorless diamond ring for my wife and have no regrets. She wanted platinum and I decided to get her a classic 6 prong setting (Tiffany and Co. style) I went with AGS certification (better than GIA) and the ring was graded triple 0... it doesn't get better than that. Her ring has the fire, brilliance, and specs. suitable for a Tiffany/Hearts on Fire diamond... yet cost 1/3-1/2 the price.

As others have mentioned, cut is perhaps the most important aspect when considering a diamond. At the end of the day, do your research, find out what she wants, and deliver...
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      06-17-2008, 04:09 PM   #22
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At the end of the day, do your research, find out what she wants, and deliver...
So WTF does the guy get...
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