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      06-16-2008, 08:39 AM   #67
ngl1145
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Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
So why would you consider the ISF's side vents fake if there are heat emanating from it and there are actual holes on the vents? BTW, the side vents that extends to the side skirts also serves for better aerodynamics. And I guess we can also say that one of the intakes on the M3's hood is fake and one of the vents on the front fenders is fake as well. Call it the way it is regardless what the purpose might be. Just like you said, fake matters right. Fake is fake, period.

It's funny reading throughout this board hearing either the words "Fail" or "Fake". It seems like that is the only way to describe things here. So M3 is fake too since it has a fake vent as well as vents that serve the same purpose that the F vents do (just a little smaller). Personally I like both cars, but you can't be stereotypical because you don't have the other car. So M3 = Fake
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      06-16-2008, 09:07 AM   #68
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I know you always have trouble reading so I will remind you. I did not mention the side vents in any way shape or form.
Don't be an ass, i mentioned the ISF side vents since you compared it to the M3. And you have mentioned in the pass that the side vents on the ISF are fake. That being said, would you consider the ISF's side vents fake or not. And again why would'nt you call one of the M3's hood vent fake?

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      06-16-2008, 10:14 AM   #69
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I am a bit shocked that swamp finds the fake bits on the IS-F so unappealing but doesn't mind them on the M3, a definite double standards if you ask me.

I personally don't mind anything that is fake as long as it looks right and compliments the appearance. I might add here that I don't like the look of the IS-F but as I haven't seem it in person I can't really comment. I felt the same way about the S5 and fell head over heels when I actually got to see it for the first, maybe the IS-F could be one of those cars.
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      06-16-2008, 10:28 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by ngl1145 View Post
It's funny reading throughout this board hearing either the words "Fail" or "Fake". It seems like that is the only way to describe things here. So M3 is fake too since it has a fake vent as well as vents that serve the same purpose that the F vents do (just a little smaller). Personally I like both cars, but you can't be stereotypical because you don't have the other car. So M3 = Fake
Don't let the haters and fanboys get to you.
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      06-16-2008, 10:39 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by ngl1145 View Post
It's funny reading throughout this board hearing either the words "Fail" or "Fake". It seems like that is the only way to describe things here. So M3 is fake too since it has a fake vent as well as vents that serve the same purpose that the F vents do (just a little smaller). Personally I like both cars, but you can't be stereotypical because you don't have the other car. So M3 = Fake
I'm with you, i personally love the M3 coupe. It is probably one of the most well balanced sports car out there.
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      06-16-2008, 01:18 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
Don't be an ass, i mentioned the ISF side vents since you compared it to the M3. And you have mentioned in the pass that the side vents on the ISF are fake. That being said, would you consider the ISF's side vents fake or not. And again why would'nt you call one of the M3's hood vent fake?
Ease up with the insults, you just can't help yourself can you?

I NEVER ONCE have mentioned anything about the IS-F side vent being fake, period.

And no I do not consider one of the vents fake. Completely a matter of interpretation. Engine guy at BMW says we must have another intake, body/design guy says I demand the hood to be symmetric. The result is what we have. You can certainly call it fake if you like.
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      06-16-2008, 01:27 PM   #73
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I am a bit shocked that swamp finds the fake bits on the IS-F so unappealing but doesn't mind them on the M3, a definite double standards if you ask me.

I personally don't mind anything that is fake as long as it looks right and compliments the appearance. I might add here that I don't like the look of the IS-F but as I haven't seem it in person I can't really comment. I felt the same way about the S5 and fell head over heels when I actually got to see it for the first, maybe the IS-F could be one of those cars.
Swamp likes to think of himself as the paradigm of informed logic, but when he gets to thinking about an M3, he can't help acting like a true believer at a revival meeting. You know. Eyes rolled back in the head, speaking in tongues, a little drool - the complete package.

To my mind, each of these five cars looks *very* good in person. In fact, since spending considerable time looking over the GM and Toyota entrants, I think I like them best, with a tight tie-breaker going to the Cadillac.

Of course, the RS4 is classically handsome, and the Merc isn't nearly as bling in person as it looks to be in pictures. I must admit that the M3 gives me a little pause, though. I think it looks good, but I can't get the prettier 335 coupe out of my mind.

If it were my money, though, I'd be checking the IS-F very closely indeed. One of my sons and I got to checking out a dark metallic red sample recently, and we were both very impressed. This is the military guy with the 997S and 600 HP GTO, so his automotive tastes are pretty much as eclectic as mine - meaning badge be damned.

If I had the money, I'd buy all five. Of course, I'd still be pining away for a Z06, and that medium metallic gray 911 Turbo coupe was to die for, and then there's the...

Sigh.

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      06-16-2008, 01:43 PM   #74
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Ease up with the insults, you just can't help yourself can you?

I NEVER ONCE have mentioned anything about the IS-F side vent being fake, period.

And no I do not consider one of the vents fake. Completely a matter of interpretation. Engine guy at BMW says we must have another intake, body/design guy says I demand the hood to be symmetric. The result is what we have. You can certainly call it fake if you like.
Implying i'm illiterate is insulting, hence the "don't be an ass" response. Anyway, so you're saying that just because BMW decided to put a "fake" intake to keep the design symmetric makes it an exception for being called fake. Are you serious about this, you're kidding right. Fake is fake no matter what the purpose is. If the side vents on the ISF is fake but it is there for design purpose, i'm sure you'll still consider it fake. Just like the tips on the ISF which are disconnected to the actual tips of the muffler just like the ones on the R8 and Murci, they're more for asthetics. So there is a purpose, but yet you and most people consider it fake. Quite hypocritical don't you think.
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      06-16-2008, 04:11 PM   #75
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So, I decided to leave the discomfort of my office chair, and go home to do some work from the comfort of my sofa. Anyway, I stopped at the Lexus dealership on the way home. To my surprise (and I say surprise because no C63s or M's with DCT are on lots in my area) they had two IS-Fs on the lot. I walked in and told them I was interested in the IS-F, and I happened to be speaking to the salesman that they sent to Vegas for the IS-F driving/"make it look like our sales people know what they are talking about" event. I told him I spent a lot of time on the message boards. He immediately brought up the exhaust. He admitted they were not connected, but explained (as close to verbatim as I can remember...):

"When they were first testing the car, the stacked exhaust was directly connected to the car's exhaust system. At high speeds, say around 160mph, the rear of the car would actually start to lift off the ground. The split actually helps to diffuse the air running under and around the car, and keep the car stable. It also helps keep the exhaust cool by diffusing the exhaust gasses."

Take that for what you will...

On the side vents:

"The side vents are connected to the engine bay. They're connected at the very rear of the engine bay, and as the air flows in through the front, its pulled around the engine and down through the side vents."

On the front bumper's air dams:

"The vents on the front pull air into the wheel well to cool the breaks"

And something I didn't even think about:

"The wheels are designed specifically for this car. They were actually created to act like fans, and they blow air on to the breaks to cool them."



So, thats what the Lexus dealers have to say. As for the car, I thought it was pretty nice. Much faster feeling than the IS350. Around 3.5k rpm, the sound of the engine explodes and it really is... well, beautiful.

All in all, it looks like my IS-F vs. C63 vs. M3 vs RS-4 decision will remain.... undecided. I'm going to crazy when it comes time to make the choice
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      06-16-2008, 04:20 PM   #76
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I think the old and aging RS4 beat the ISF in every mag test to date......FAIL!
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      06-16-2008, 04:38 PM   #77
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I think the old and aging RS4 beat the ISF in every mag test to date......FAIL!
Look at those numbers.

You sure every mag test to date said the old and aging RS4 beat the IS-F? If you look at all the factors they use to rate besides performance, the IS-F actually does pretty good. When you throw in factors such as fuel economy, I really think if you're driving this kind of car hard, you really don't care if it's off 1-2 mpg. It's the acceleration, braking, handling that you really care about. Not the fact that someone thought the seats could be more comfortable. All that is subjective. I should say even the driving is subject to the actual driver as well as the times. If they gave you an M3 and wanted you to race a professional race car driver in a standard 325i, I'm sure the 325i will be able to get a faster lap time than you in the M3. It comes down to experience and the driver. All these cars are well matched. I love all of them and would own all of them if I could... unfortunately I had to pick one.

Plus if you look at the 0-60 for the M3.. don't you think that's kind of high? In reality the M3 probably can do it much quicker than what the magazine states. If you take what magazines say literally, you're getting the wrong info. Try the car and see how it is. If I looked at those numbers below and saw the 0-60 times, I'd think the M3 is the slower of the pack.

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      06-16-2008, 05:01 PM   #78
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I think the old and aging RS4 beat the ISF in every mag test to date......FAIL!
Not to speak out of turn here but if you look hard enough you will find the RS4 beating the M3 is a few comparison tests as well. Does that make the M3 a failure?

The IS-F might not be the last work in handling finesse but it sure does sports/luxury as well as the next best (the C63) and on this the M3 comes a distant third. You buy any car of what appeals to you most, to some that will be the sportier M3 with it's greater handling and more race style engine, to others the security and all weather driveability of the RS4 or the brute force that is the C63. Each to their own, all of these cars are great and I bet you would be happy living with any of them.

I know I would.
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      06-16-2008, 05:05 PM   #79
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Thank you, footie and ngl, for posting.

Now I dont have to.
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      06-16-2008, 05:51 PM   #80
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Another thread for the M3 fanboys to bash another car/manufacturer, as usual.

Whats interesting is that in a couple of tests the IS-F was actually faster in a straight line than the M3. Impressive for a car that weights more.

I guess the M3 Failed there.
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      06-16-2008, 07:04 PM   #81
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Implying i'm illiterate is insulting, hence the "don't be an ass" response. Anyway, so you're saying that just because BMW decided to put a "fake" intake to keep the design symmetric makes it an exception for being called fake. Are you serious about this, you're kidding right. Fake is fake no matter what the purpose is. If the side vents on the ISF is fake but it is there for design purpose, i'm sure you'll still consider it fake. Just like the tips on the ISF which are disconnected to the actual tips of the muffler just like the ones on the R8 and Murci, they're more for asthetics. So there is a purpose, but yet you and most people consider it fake. Quite hypocritical don't you think.
We have had such issues on a plethora of posts/exchanges in the past. It is not that you are illiterate nor did I state that. Quite simply, you either do not read what I write or imagine I have written something I have not. This happens again and again and again.

Furthermore either way your accusation way wrong, I never once said anything about the IS-F side vents, PERIOD. I like the way they look and suspected all along they are functional.

Specifically on the BMW vents call it what you will. I choose not to call it fake, but others (mostly those very insecure about the looks of other vehicles) will want to call it fake. I really do not care. However, if you want to be 100% accurate and correct you can only say 1 out of 2 of them are fake, once you say both are you are simply wrong.
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      06-16-2008, 07:05 PM   #82
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That was a photo I took actually. It was taken hours after I picked it up. Just noticed heheh.
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      06-16-2008, 07:11 PM   #83
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Swamp likes to think of himself as the paradigm of informed logic, but when he gets to thinking about an M3, he can't help acting like a true believer at a revival meeting. You know. Eyes rolled back in the head, speaking in tongues, a little drool - the complete package.
Thanks papa Freud.

Perhaps to be more informed of my way of thinking you could peruse the multitude of posts I have made critical to BMW and critical of the M3. Oh, whoops, that would ruin your convenient little crutch where you get to label folks generally complimentary to a particular brand as blinded or as a fan boy or simply as not as much of an entuhusiast as folks like yourself.

Sorry Bruce, keep trying. As well your credibility will only increase if you simply cease from such grossly exaggerated attacks.
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      06-16-2008, 07:54 PM   #84
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BMW should have made the M3 put out 310ft/lb, now we have to put up with all the 335i owners who think they can now take on C6s. It's an embarrassment.
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      06-16-2008, 08:07 PM   #85
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We have had such issues on a plethora of posts/exchanges in the past. It is not that you are illiterate nor did I state that. Quite simply, you either do not read what I write or imagine I have written something I have not. This happens again and again and again.

Furthermore either way your accusation way wrong, I never once said anything about the IS-F side vents, PERIOD. I like the way they look and suspected all along they are functional.

Specifically on the BMW vents call it what you will. I choose not to call it fake, but others (mostly those very insecure about the looks of other vehicles) will want to call it fake. I really do not care. However, if you want to be 100% accurate and correct you can only say 1 out of 2 of them are fake, once you say both are you are simply wrong.
I did say only one of the vent on the M3's hood is fake, not both. If you say that you never said the side vents on the ISF is fake, then i apologize. I stand corrected.
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      06-16-2008, 08:11 PM   #86
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BMW should have made the M3 put out 310ft/lb, now we have to put up with all the 335i owners who think they can now take on C6s. It's an embarrassment.
The M3 is an M3! When I see one I have more wow than if I see a 335i. There's something about owning the M that sets it apart from just a regular BMW. There are many cars out there that are cheap but faster than our cars, but they do not have the marque. A 335i with firmware update to the ECU maybe fast but will never be an M. I saw a red one yesterday (coupe) and was awed. To those who have a M3 Coupe congrats!
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      06-16-2008, 09:03 PM   #87
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You sure every mag test to date said the old and aging RS4 beat the IS-F? If you look at all the factors they use to rate besides performance, the IS-F actually does pretty good. When you throw in factors such as fuel economy, I really think if you're driving this kind of car hard, you really don't care if it's off 1-2 mpg. It's the acceleration, braking, handling that you really care about. Not the fact that someone thought the seats could be more comfortable. All that is subjective. I should say even the driving is subject to the actual driver as well as the times. If they gave you an M3 and wanted you to race a professional race car driver in a standard 325i, I'm sure the 325i will be able to get a faster lap time than you in the M3. It comes down to experience and the driver. All these cars are well matched. I love all of them and would own all of them if I could... unfortunately I had to pick one.

Plus if you look at the 0-60 for the M3.. don't you think that's kind of high? In reality the M3 probably can do it much quicker than what the magazine states. If you take what magazines say literally, you're getting the wrong info. Try the car and see how it is. If I looked at those numbers below and saw the 0-60 times, I'd think the M3 is the slower of the pack.
He's probably reffering to the Edmunds test where the RS4 did beat the ISF. And another comparison where the ISF placed last behind the RS4. In regards to the M3's performance results in that R&D test, that is rather slow for the M3. We've all seen the M3 do 4.2 or even 4.1 to 60 and 12.5 on 1/4 mile.
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      06-16-2008, 09:16 PM   #88
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For me, it would not matter if the IS-F came ahead in every test against the M3. I would still buy the M3. I just love the feel of BMWs. I also like the fact that they don't try to go overboard with the styling. And I believe the M3 will depreciate less than the IS-F (I could be wrong but that is my hunch).
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