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      06-09-2008, 10:40 AM   #45
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I voted for Bill Clinton (twice), Gore, and Kerry. And every democrat for President for the last 28 years.

But this time, I will vote for McCain.

PT
I understand that this is all anecdotal but I was speaking to a friend of our last week who said the same thing. She is a middle aged, Bay Area lesbian who believes deeply in national health care but she confessed that she could not imagine voting for someone as inexperienced as Obama to lead this country in time of war. She was pulling for McCain.
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      06-09-2008, 11:55 AM   #46
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I understand that this is all anecdotal but I was speaking to a friend of our last week who said the same thing. She is a middle aged, Bay Area lesbian who believes deeply in national health care but she confessed that she could not imagine voting for someone as inexperienced as Obama to lead this country in time of war. She was pulling for McCain.
My sentiments exactly. But the lack of substance campaign and its supporters will probably just chalk it up to racism, rather than to admit the fact that BO is too inexperienced to be President.

Only Time will tell...
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      06-09-2008, 12:06 PM   #47
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My sentiments exactly. But the lack of substance campaign and its supporters will probably just chalk it up to racism, rather than to admit the fact that BO is too inexperienced to be President.

Only Time will tell...
In the case of my friend, the racism charge would be difficult to make stick since her partner is black.

You are right, only time will tell.
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      06-09-2008, 12:09 PM   #48
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Reading this thread seriously makes me chuckle. Its easy for the californians and the new englanders and those in canada to talk about how race won't be the primary reason Obama loses. Those of us living south of DC and east of the Mississippi River will tell you that you couldn't be more wrong. It's easy for those of us on e90post (well off and well educated) to assume that the rest of the country will think the same way we do and base their ideas off such logic, but that's really not how things work out here. Thinkers are the minority. People looking at the issues are the minority. When november rolls around I'm prepared to see all the locals get in their cars with their confederate flag stickers still attached and vote for no other reason but to keep the n***** out of office.
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      06-09-2008, 12:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I understand that this is all anecdotal but I was speaking to a friend of our last week who said the same thing. She is a middle aged, Bay Area lesbian who believes deeply in national health care but she confessed that she could not imagine voting for someone as inexperienced as Obama to lead this country in time of war. She was pulling for McCain.
Hmmm so your telling me she is a GAY FEMALE voting for McCain?

Maybe she didn't know that....

Copied and pasted from Women for Barack:
McCain Opposed Equal Pay Bill for Women, Said They ‘Need Education and Training’ Instead. McCain skipped a vote on the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act that would ensure women have the opportunity to recover back pay for discrimination once they discover it. If he had been there to vote, he said he would have voted against it and that women “need education and training” rather than an equal pay bill. The bill addressed a recent Supreme Court decision that said Steelworker Lilly Ledbetter could not recover back pay for 19 years of discrimination at Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. because she had not discovered the unequal pay until she retired. The bill would amend the 1964 Civil Rights Act to allow employees to file charges of pay discrimination within 180 days of the last received paycheck affected by the discrimination. [Source: aflcio.org; H.R. 2831, Vote 110, 4/23/08; Associated Press, 4/28/08]

McCain Voted to Gut the Family and Medical Leave Act. In 1993, before finally voting for the Family and Medical Leave Act, McCain voted to jeopardize leave for millions of workers by gutting the bill. He voted to suspend the Family and Medical Leave Act unless the federal government certified that compliance would not increase business expenses or provide financial assistance to businesses to cover any related costs. [Source: aflcio.org S.Amdt. 16, S. 5, Vote 7, 2/4/93; H.R. 1, Vote 11, 2/4/93]

Source for the following information: Planned Parenthood

McCain opposed spending $100 million to prevent unintended and teen pregnancies. In 2005, McCain voted NO to allocate $100 million to expand access to preventive health care services that reduce the numbers of unintended and teen pregnancies and reduce the number of abortions.

McCain opposed legislation requiring that abstinence-only programs be medically accurate and scientifically based.
McCain voted NO on legislation that would help reduce the number of teen pregnancies by providing funding for programs to teach comprehensive, medically accurate sexuality education and other programs to prevent unintended teen pregnancies.

McCain opposed Title X, the nation's family planning program.
In 1990, McCain voted NO on legislation to extend the Title X federal family planning program, which provides low-income and uninsured women and families with health care services ranging from breast and cervical cancer screening to birth control.

McCain opposed requiring insurance coverage of prescription birth control.
In 2003, McCain voted NO on legislation to improve the availability of contraceptives for women and to require insurance coverage of prescription birth control.

McCain opposes comprehensive sex education.
In an interview aboard the "Straight Talk Express," McCain struggled to answer questions about comprehensive sex education and HIV prevention. He also stated that he supported "the president's policy" on sex education.

McCain unsure where he stands on government funding for contraception.
"Whether I support government funding for them or not, I don't know," McCain said about contraceptives.

McCain opposed repealing the "global gag rule."
In 2005, McCain voted NO on legislation to overturn the "global gag rule," which bars foreign nongovernmental organizations from receiving U.S. family planning assistance if the organization (using its own, non-U.S. funds) provides abortion services or information or advocates for pro-choice laws and policies in its own country.

McCain supports overturning Roe v. Wade.
In February 2007, the AP quoted McCain stating, "I do not support Roe v. Wade. It should be overturned." In May 2007, he reiterated his desire to overturn Roe v. Wade during an appearance on Meet the Press stating, "My position has been consistently in my voting record, pro-life, and I continue to maintain that position and voting record."


and MOST importantly he is against GAY RIGHTS.

WTF is wrong with your friend? Anecdotal...man you got that right
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      06-09-2008, 12:33 PM   #50
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Hmmm so your telling me she is a GAY FEMALE voting for McCain?

...


and MOST importantly he is against GAY RIGHTS.

WTF is wrong with your friend? Anecdotal...man you got that right
She is a very well educated and informed person. I know that she is aware that she and McCain's have different views on social issues but she believes those disagreements are minor and not something a president has much impact over compared to the war.

I would also note that she does not believe she is denied any rights based on her sexual preference.
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      06-09-2008, 12:45 PM   #51
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Reading this thread seriously makes me chuckle. Its easy for the californians and the new englanders and those in canada to talk about how race won't be the primary reason Obama loses. Those of us living south of DC and east of the Mississippi River will tell you that you couldn't be more wrong. It's easy for those of us on e90post (well off and well educated) to assume that the rest of the country will think the same way we do and base their ideas off such logic, but that's really not how things work out here. Thinkers are the minority. People looking at the issues are the minority. When november rolls around I'm prepared to see all the locals get in their cars with their confederate flag stickers still attached and vote for no other reason but to keep the n***** out of office.

I'm sure there is some truth in this but I sincerely hope that is a very small percentage of ppl. It is kind of ironic though when you think about all of the anti white that has came out of Obama's own church... This surely is not helping the issue.
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      06-09-2008, 12:46 PM   #52
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I would also note that she does not believe she is denied any rights based on her sexual preference.
As long as she continues to live in the Bay Area I would agree.
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      06-09-2008, 12:49 PM   #53
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As long as she continues to live in the Bay Area I would agree.
She just moved there from the East cost and I know her thoughts on that issue have not recently changed.
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      06-09-2008, 12:58 PM   #54
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ganeil: Is your friend's partner also supporting McCain or is she for Obama?

TheAcAvenger : There could be another reason other than racism that these people are not supporting Obama. He is considered an Elitist (and his Starbucks cappucino sipping supporters). Remember the gaffe he made about Desperate people clinging to religion and guns bec of their economic situation? This is the same reason people in that region dont support Kerry. Because they are all seen as elites who are out of touch with the common people.

I am so sick and tired of people accusing non-BO supporters of being racist. I am sure there is an aspect of it, but to paint the broad stroke that people who are not supporting Obama are racist is just absurd.

And then there is this whole thing about Rev Wright. And do you really believe that Obama has been in Wright's church for 20 years and never realised he was spewing such hatred for America and white people? Who's he kidding? Only his cult followers...
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      06-09-2008, 12:59 PM   #55
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ganeil: Is your friend's partner also supporting McCain or is she for Obama?
I did not ask and she did not offer.
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      06-09-2008, 01:01 PM   #56
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In this election, many Americans are dissatisfied with the choices we have for president and will be forced to choose the lesser of two evils.

Our biased two-party system has gotten us into this mess. Independent candidates need to be given more of a chance to succeed in our election process. Independents can enter, but they have to jump through so many hoops and overcome so many barriers in order to have a chance. The democrat and republican ideals have not been fruitful as of late. We need a new direction, a complete 180 in many policies. A solid independent candidate could bring about real change not just a campaign slogan with 'change' in big letters.
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      06-09-2008, 01:02 PM   #57
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I am so sick and tired of people accusing non-BO supporters of being racist. I am sure there is an aspect of it, but to paint the broad stroke that people who are not supporting Obama are racist is just absurd.

...
How come you're not sick of the non McCain supporters being called Communists, Socialists and some even pulling the Hitler deal???

Maybe you should swing by the south, or mid-west and see their viewes about the black pres or a woman in the WH...

Yes, there is a HUGE amount of racism here that WILL play the role in November...

Stop looking at the thing only from your own perspective (not everyone lives int he NE and Cali, and drives a Bimmer in this country...)
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      06-09-2008, 01:12 PM   #58
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Stop looking at the thing only from your own perspective (not everyone lives int he NE and Cali, and drives a Bimmer in this country...)
And bec of that, they are automatically considered RACISTS?
How can you assume that and not give them the benefit of the doubt that perhap they are against ELITISM?

And what about reverse racism of people like Rev Wright? And how blacks adandoned the Clintons dispite all the support they have given to Blacks in the 8 years Bill was in office. Just to vote skin color and not on the issues.

Bobby_Light: Now would be a good time for a Bloomberg annoucement of him running as an independant... Now, I can support that wholeheartedly.
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      06-09-2008, 01:20 PM   #59
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Bobby_Light: Now would be a good time for a Bloomberg annoucement of him running as an independant... Now, I can support that wholeheartedly.
I'm down for any independent to actually get a real shot at winning the presidency. I mean participate in every debate and get full fledged ballot access in every state. An independent can shake things up, get some new ideas into these debates, open eyes to new policies, and set the stage for independents to truly have an opportunity for success.
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      06-09-2008, 01:26 PM   #60
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In this election, many Americans are dissatisfied with the choices we have for president and will be forced to choose the lesser of two evils.

Our biased two-party system has gotten us into this mess. Independent candidates need to be given more of a chance to succeed in our election process. Independents can enter, but they have to jump through so many hoops and overcome so many barriers in order to have a chance. The democrat and republican ideals have not been fruitful as of late. We need a new direction, a complete 180 in many policies. A solid independent candidate could bring about real change not just a campaign slogan with 'change' in big letters.

I would argue that our two party system is largely responsible for the stability in our political system. It is one of our great strengths.

If by some wild chance, an independent candidate did win a presidential election, how would he accomplish anything without a base of support in the Congress?
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      06-09-2008, 01:28 PM   #61
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Now would be a good time for a Bloomberg annoucement of him running as an independant... Now, I can support that wholeheartedly.
Why would Bloomberg be better than either current candidate? I really would not want a President who would use the power of the state to decide that I can't eat french fries.
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      06-09-2008, 03:22 PM   #62
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... wild chance, an independent candidate did win a presidential election, how would he accomplish anything without a base of support in the Congress?
Same can be said about Obama. If he Dems dont win a fillibuster proof majority in the senate, despite all the Change BO espouses, he will not be able to get his laws passed. And even though the climate is favoring Dems, it doesnt look like they will capture the amount of seats needed.

I actually like a divided house. Presidency to one party, and congress to the other. This in effect forces the parties to compromise and results in legislation that is moderate and not to the extreme (left or right).

As for Bloomberg, he is the only candidate that is capable of launching a winning independant run bec he has the money to back his campaign. And I think he is a centrist and will have to work with BOTH parties to legislate, then resulting in a moderation of the bills that are passed.

I like what he has done for NYC. He has certainly helped NYC rebound from the economic crisis since 9/11. He has good environment policies, and is also good for business. A good balance, overall.
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      06-09-2008, 08:14 PM   #63
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She is a very well educated and informed person. I know that she is aware that she and McCain's have different views on social issues but she believes those disagreements are minor and not something a president has much impact over compared to the war.

I would also note that she does not believe she is denied any rights based on her sexual preference.
I would be willing to wager she'll come to her senses before the election. Especially once she realizes there are Supreme Court judges at stake.
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      06-09-2008, 08:21 PM   #64
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I would be willing to wager she'll come to her senses before the election. Especially once she realizes there are Supreme Court judges at stake.
Exactly what potential judicial issue do you believe will trump her current position?

Although she no longer practices law (nor do I), we know each other from law school and she is not a big fan of judicial activist judges.
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      06-09-2008, 08:25 PM   #65
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I would be willing to wager she'll come to her senses before the election. Especially once she realizes there are Supreme Court judges at stake.
Your argument about ganeil's "friend" could also apply to me and John McCain in that, for my viewpoint, the likelihood of John McCain offering strict constructionist federal judges and SC justices is much higher than the chance Obama would do it. Actually, the change of my vote is probably easier than for ganeil's "friend" because my candidate can't win. It would be going back to picking the lesser of two evils (although in some issues, I'm not so certain which one of these two is less evil).
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      06-09-2008, 08:28 PM   #66
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And bec of that, they are automatically considered RACISTS?
How can you assume that and not give them the benefit of the doubt that perhap they are against ELITISM?

And what about reverse racism of people like Rev Wright? And how blacks adandoned the Clintons dispite all the support they have given to Blacks in the 8 years Bill was in office. Just to vote skin color and not on the issues.

Bobby_Light: Now would be a good time for a Bloomberg annoucement of him running as an independant... Now, I can support that wholeheartedly.
To describe Barack Obama as elitist is either a misuse of the word on your part or evidence you don't know the meaning of the word, given Senator Obama's humble origins. I laugh everytime I hear people use the term about him.

Reverse racism is a term with no real meaning. Either you are racist or you're not. You cannot be a reverse racist just as you cannot be a reverse sexist.

To say that African Americans abandoned the Clintons due to racism is silly. The Clinton's insulted them and took them for granted. They deserved to be abandoned.
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