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      08-10-2008, 10:14 PM   #45
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I've heard numerous times that you're better off pushing the engine right away than following the dealer recommendation (similar to the process explained in the link provided previously in this thread).

As for recourse in a warranty claim, I bet BMW can download RPM and speed numbers from the ECU so it doesn't seem impossible that they could cite non-conformity during break in as a warranty voiding action. I doubt that would hold up if litigated. Alternatively, if you can prove your engine operates below BMW's Hp claims and your pistons show leakage you might be able to argue that the break in instructions damaged the engine.

I'll be faced with this decision soon and frankly, I don't know which approach I am going to take!
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      08-10-2008, 10:17 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ILLCOMM View Post
I've heard numerous times that you're better off pushing the engine right away than following the dealer recommendation (similar to the process explained in the link provided previously in this thread).

As for recourse in a warranty claim, I bet BMW can download RPM and speed numbers from the ECU so it doesn't seem impossible that they could cite non-conformity during break in as a warranty voiding action. I doubt that would hold up if litigated. Alternatively, if you can prove your engine operates below BMW's Hp claims and your pistons show leakage you might be able to argue that the break in instructions damaged the engine.

I'll be faced with this decision soon and frankly, I don't know which approach I am going to take!
They can and will get your driving profile including what RPM you hit when at what mileage. If you did not follow the producedure, changes are you may be in a position to have to argue with them. They have the decision to let it slide or make you an example. Resolutions takes weeks if not months. Do you want to put yourself in that position? Forgot what everybody says. You paid 70K for a car. Don't chance. Follow the break in procedure.
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      08-10-2008, 10:37 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by knifegun View Post
If they don't find any cause for the failure, they will blame it on improper break in (this is BMW of NA, not the dealer). At that point, you roll the dice that the BMW of NA rep is nice and does the right thing.

Its okay to doubt me. But do you want to take a chance that I am right? Have to pay for a new engine when somethings goes wrong and they blame it on overreviing the engine (i.e. not warrantied)?
What do you have to back this up? I drove the living piss out of my E46 M3 from the moment I got it and my dealer honored all warranty work (no major repairs, just minor stuff).

Overrevving is done when you exceed the redline, hence why they give you a limiter. If going over 5500 during break in voided the warranty they would give you a limiter for it. There is nothing that says going over 5500 rpm voids warranty, you are pulling this out of thin air.
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      08-10-2008, 10:59 PM   #48
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It's easy to redline the DCT by accident when you first get it. Never mind!!! it's ALWAYS easy to over-rev the DCT b/c of mistaking wether or not you are in D mode or not. It's a REAL big problem for me. I hit gas and then look down and see that i am at 7K rpm in first gear. Happens at least once a week.
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      08-10-2008, 11:23 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
What do you have to back this up? I drove the living piss out of my E46 M3 from the moment I got it and my dealer honored all warranty work (no major repairs, just minor stuff).

Overrevving is done when you exceed the redline, hence why they give you a limiter. If going over 5500 during break in voided the warranty they would give you a limiter for it. There is nothing that says going over 5500 rpm voids warranty, you are pulling this out of thin air.
Listen. I can back it up but I am not going to. You can all take the warning for waht it is. At face value. Hopefully, I will never need to tell you "I told you so".
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      08-11-2008, 12:48 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by knifegun View Post
Listen. I can back it up but I am not going to. You can all take the warning for waht it is. At face value. Hopefully, I will never need to tell you "I told you so".
He's right. I got to be honest, somewhere along the line the //Ms have become cars that people think are "cool" so why not buy one. They aren't just "neat" or "cool" just like a 911 isn't just "neat" or "cool". You want a an easy "neat" or "quick and cool car" buy a 335 (I love mine; great car) or go buy a G37 or the dozens of other "neat", "cool" and "fun to drive; quick cars". But if you are an enthusiast who isn't just looking for a great engine, but a great and balanced chassis with an almost perfectly balanced suspension, that has an absolutely athletic and amazing engine that only needs a possible break-pad upgrade to be a good track car (another debate for another thread) then you buy an //M or 911 (which definitely doesn't need anything done to the breaks to be a great track car). But, understand an //M3 isn't some station wagon you get into and go. It requires time, effort and patience to do the simple things such as to truly understand what it takes to properly use this machine. Part of using a machine is treating it right and understanding that with its outstanding abilities comes higher maintenance costs and most stringent break-in/use guidelines.

If something as simple as waiting for 1200 miles before driving the car hard and making sure that during that first 1200 miles you also vary engine speeds and driving styles to be sure to break-in the entire drive train then this car is not for you. Move on and buy an S5, 335, G37 or the dozen of other fast cars out there that you will enjoy very much. This goes along the lines of people moaning and bitching about the smallest things on these cars, like why isn't the ride softer or why do I have to adjust the settings to get the kind of off the line response that I expect should be there---- bottom line its a sports car, maybe not a GT3 or 430, but a sports car none the less that happens to have a back seat. It is unbelievably versatile and much more civil than most of the cars that equal or better its performance. That being said, it can't be a civic, 750 and camry all wrapped into one car, nor should you want it to be.

For those that feel break-in is BS, why on earth would BMW put in in the manual and go into great detail on it but not in their non-//M cars? If you didn't break your car in properly and it was fine that was simply luck, not the norm.

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      08-11-2008, 01:01 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
He's right. I got to be honest, somewhere along the line the //Ms have become cars that people think are "cool" so why not buy one. They aren't just "neat" or "cool" just like a 911 isn't just "neat" or "cool". You want a an easy "neat" or "quick and cool car" buy a 335 (I love mine; great car) or go buy a G37 or the dozens of other "neat", "cool" and "fun to drive; quick cars". But if you are an enthusiast who isn't just looking for a great engine, but a great and balanced chassis with an almost perfectly balanced suspension, that has an absolutely athletic and amazing engine that only needs a possible break-pad upgrade to be a good track car (another debate for another thread) then you buy an //M or 911 (which definitely doesn't need anything done to the breaks to be a great track car). But, understand an //M3 isn't some station wagon you get into and go. It requires time, effort and patience to do the simple things such as to truly understand what it takes to properly use this machine. Part of using a machine is treating it right and understanding that with its outstanding abilities comes higher maintenance costs and most stringent break-in/use guidelines.

If something as simple as waiting for 1200 miles before driving the car hard and making sure that during that first 1200 miles you also vary engine speeds and driving styles to be sure to break-in the entire drive train then this car is not for you. Move on and buy an S5, 335, G37 or the dozen of other fast cars out there that you will enjoy very much. This goes along the lines of people moaning and bitching about the smallest things on these cars, like why isn't the ride softer or why do I have to adjust the settings to get the kind of off the line response that I expect should be there---- bottom line its a sports car, maybe not a GT3 or 430, but a sports car none the less that happens to have a back seat. It is unbelievably versatile and much more civil than most of the cars that equal or better its performance. That being said, it can't be a civic, 750 and camry all wrapped into one car, nor should you want it to be.

For those that feel break-in is BS, why on earth would BMW put in in the manual and go into great detail on it but not in their non-//M cars? If you didn't break your car in properly and it was fine that was simply luck, not the norm.

Cheers,
e46e92
Well the reason they want you to break it in is that if something should go wrong it will go wrong early on and at low speeds. There may be ever so slight metal shavings or there could be something ever so slight that was missed.

Don't think BMW does not test these motors before they go into your car. They test the motors hard so that if anything major is to break it happens before you get it. The break in is not just for the motor but brakes, suspension, diff, and even the hand brake.

If you really think 5600 vs. 5500 is going to ruin the motor you are crazy and don't have an idea of how these motors are put together in the first place. Now, the rings have to seat and sitting at redline is not what anyone is talking about. But motors that break in with varied rpms and driven a bit harder do tend to dyno higher.
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      08-11-2008, 01:03 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by knifegun View Post
Listen. I can back it up but I am not going to. You can all take the warning for waht it is. At face value. Hopefully, I will never need to tell you "I told you so".
What do you mean you can back it up but you don't want to? Seriously, show the board and everyone else how BMW voids the warranty if you accidentally cross 5500 rpm. I bet the majority of people on the board have, without even trying to, exceeded the recommended limit for short intervals. When test driving the car my salesman himself wanted to show me what the car was capable of and exceeded 5500 rpm substantially (not in the one I bought).
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      08-11-2008, 01:11 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Well the reason they want you to break it in is that if something should go wrong it will go wrong early on and at low speeds. There may be ever so slight metal shavings or there could be something ever so slight that was missed.

Don't think BMW does not test these motors before they go into your car. They test the motors hard so that if anything major is to break it happens before you get it. The break in is not just for the motor but brakes, suspension, diff, and even the hand brake.

If you really think 5600 vs. 5500 is going to ruin the motor you are crazy and don't have an idea of how these motors are put together in the first place. Now, the rings have to seat and sitting at redline is not what anyone is talking about. But motors that break in with varied rpms and driven a bit harder do tend to dyno higher.
No, you are right, the break-in is BS, and I am crazy.........this forum was so cool for the first year and turning into nothing but drivel that now plagues e90post........
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      08-11-2008, 01:15 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
What do you mean you can back it up but you don't want to? Seriously, show the board and everyone else how BMW voids the warranty if you accidentally cross 5500 rpm. I bet the majority of people on the board have, without even trying to, exceeded the recommended limit for short intervals. When test driving the car my salesman himself wanted to show me what the car was capable of and exceeded 5500 rpm substantially (not in the one I bought).
Simple. I ran into a situation where the engine revving (i.e. over the factory recommendation...not redlining) did factor into a resolution and luckily my dealer took car of me. Had he not, I may be in the process of arguing with BMW of NA.

If you disagree with me or don't want to take advice without "hard proof", then don't take it. Chances are it won't matter. But maybe it will. Your call. I don't care either way. Just trying to help.
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      08-11-2008, 02:21 AM   #55
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No, you are right, the break-in is BS, and I am crazy.........this forum was so cool for the first year and turning into nothing but drivel that now plagues e90post........
You are oversimplifying, which is drivel in itself. Not sure where I wrote the break in is BS, what I wrote is that varying the RPM's through the powerband is important.
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      08-11-2008, 02:21 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by knifegun View Post
Simple. I ran into a situation where the engine revving (i.e. over the factory recommendation...not redlining) did factor into a resolution and luckily my dealer took car of me. Had he not, I may be in the process of arguing with BMW of NA.

If you disagree with me or don't want to take advice without "hard proof", then don't take it. Chances are it won't matter. But maybe it will. Your call. I don't care either way. Just trying to help.
I appreciate your advice and I hope you appreciate if others provide their point of view.
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      08-11-2008, 07:23 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.AK View Post
It's easy to redline the DCT by accident when you first get it. Never mind!!! it's ALWAYS easy to over-rev the DCT b/c of mistaking wether or not you are in D mode or not. It's a REAL big problem for me. I hit gas and then look down and see that i am at 7K rpm in first gear. Happens at least once a week.
I think that a DCT driver would have a strong case if BMW ever tried to void the warranty because they couldn't prove whether you deliberately revved over 5500 or whether it was a mistake. I'll be accidentally revving my DCT to 7000 while following the "run it in hard" theory.....
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      08-11-2008, 07:39 AM   #58
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How long do you keep your vehicles for? A new car a year, I imagine once the warranty is up on a car you would ditch it, if you haven't yet already.

Which leads me to conclude that your system is not at all meant for anyone planning on keeping this car for more than 5 years. A similar situation can be said for your buddy who builds those V8s. I'm sure he isn't building and breaking them in for average cars that will see 100k+ miles of use. BMW tested this car for all likely conditions, and all driving styles. The manual that comes with the car explaining the slower more conservative break-in procedure is backed by the BMW warranty.

If I had to choose between using BMW's recommended method, and yours... well the choice is clear. No offense, but if you are going to recommend something that is so drastically different from the norm, it would be nice to have more evidence and refences than just your "friend" who also builds V8s.

For all we know, he might not even be that great at building them. You never posted up pics of any trophies.

Anyways, I'm not attacking you or saying your lying even. Just pointing out that though you seem to know your shit, your still just a guy posting on a forum and I'd hate to see the OP ruin his $68k car because of this. Especially since I'm sure you won't guarantee your method with a warranty equal to that of BMW.
If the engine breakin was so critical on the S65,do you not think that BMW would have a 55-6000 RPM limiter till the 2000 km service?45 minutes seems to be a normal time to break in an engine on the dyno before a full dyno test.AMG bolts every new engine on the dyno and runs a full power run before the engines are shipped to the factory and installed in the cars.The only thing that requires break-in in a modern engine is the piston rings and that is done in the first 20 minutes and the camshaft & lifters if it is a flat tappet engine(pushrod ).
I have kept track of most of my used vehicles and most of them have gone over 160000 kms with no engine reliability issues.I had an engine out of my E30 325 Firehawk racer that was broken in at the track during the 1st practice session and ran over 18000 kms of race use.I then sold that engine to a friend of mine who used it on the street for over 200000 kms till the rest of the car died.I had had a 97 Ford Explorer that I towed a 6000lb racecar trailer with with less than 100 kms on and that truck went over 500000kms with zero engine issues.
The only time I followed an easy breakin the engine had to be replaced as it had oil consumption issues.
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      08-11-2008, 11:08 AM   #59
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read the owners manual. do what it says. why would you do otherwise?
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      08-11-2008, 11:22 AM   #60
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Does anyone really think there is a secret handshake break-in procedure that only a handful of folks know about?

Just follow the BMW recommended procedure (within reason) and your car will run within the 2 sigma curve of all the others. Go outside of the recommendations, and you may or may not make more power and burn less oil. It's up to you.

Do I think a break-in per the above motorcycle guy recommendation will hurt the engine? No.
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      08-11-2008, 11:28 AM   #61
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Does anyone really think there is a secret handshake break-in procedure that only a handful of folks know about?

Just follow the BMW recommended procedure (within reason) and your car will run within the 2 sigma curve of all the others. Go outside of the recommendations, and you may or may not make more power and burn less oil. It's up to you.

Do I think a break-in per the above motorcycle guy recommendation will hurt the engine? No.
The real reality is with modern engine manufacturing procedures,(micro finishing the cylinder walls)the breakin is not that critical as it once was.Besides by the time you receive the car it has probally had over 100 stops & starts during the shipping process.
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      08-11-2008, 01:39 PM   #62
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If i LEASED, I would not care about breaking it in. Agreed? Let the next guys deal with the long term sequela of my abuse. That's why we buy NEW with these kind of cars.
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      08-11-2008, 03:22 PM   #63
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Mine has got 2800 miles on the clock and as far as I'm concerned it'll be run in at 3000miles!!!
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      08-11-2008, 04:36 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Manny212 View Post
I went on a 200+ cruise today and hit 100 about twice but stayed under 5500. I did burn a bit of oil though according to the oil meter. Before I went it was at the top arrow. it is now half way between the top arrow and the midway line. Was the first time i really drove it for that long so i hope it won't happen again
I did the same thing and just below 1200 miles, it burned a little oil and the meter was in the exact position as yours. Got the 1200 mile service done and now I'm at 3200 miles with no problems. Oil level still at top of the line!
I'm not an Automotive engineer but am an Aircraft propultion technition and engineer and manufactures have different methods of break-in for their engines according to the engineer's design spec's. Be it a V8 or a aircraft jet engine.
Run-in is important to "seat" piston rings, turbine fan blades, compressor rub-strips, temperature flux, etc. So why think that someone knows because they know some guy that has some car or works on some other engine?
If the engine rings are run-in the first 10, 20, 30, km or what ever they built it for and the rest of the break-in is for the drive-train. Then after the initial break-in the engine is good to go, woul it not be?
My '04 Saab 93 Aero took 3K to break-in per the manual and to be exact, the engine did not feel smooth running and effertless to red-line until about 5K miles. My M3 is at 3200 and the engine, to me at least, still feels a bit tight when reving high revs, I can't explain "tight" but I think some of you fella's understand.
I would not go against what BMW engineers suggest in the manual unless you don't give a rat's ass about the car or engine IMHO.
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      08-12-2008, 02:33 AM   #65
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Smile for the most part

im on the fence; bmw did make the car and they do know the best. Or do they? some of these educated mechanics have their own say. i dunno whos right and whos not but im just gonna trust bmw because if ur engine breaks when ur doing their procedure, theyll fix it but if u follow billy joe's secret break in and u break ur engine, he's not gonna fix it for u.
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      08-12-2008, 11:03 AM   #66
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im on the fence; bmw did make the car and they do know the best. Or do they? some of these educated mechanics have their own say. i dunno whos right and whos not but im just gonna trust bmw because if ur engine breaks when ur doing their procedure, theyll fix it but if u follow billy joe's secret break in and u break ur engine, he's not gonna fix it for u.
Well said. I believe this is the correct conclusion.

Not like your going to go enter this car into the 24 hrs of Le Mans, or 24hr of Nurburgring anyways.
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