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      05-31-2008, 03:14 PM   #45
just4kickz
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for those who actually donate to any cause... how many people actually think about what their money is doing? im just curious. its like donating to a food shelter... say i donate 10 bucks... is that going to buy like a few pounds of meat to make some soup? or maybe some bread... pay for electricity or maintenance? or does that not matter to you.
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      05-31-2008, 05:30 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by just4kickz View Post
for those who actually donate to any cause... how many people actually think about what their money is doing? im just curious. its like donating to a food shelter... say i donate 10 bucks... is that going to buy like a few pounds of meat to make some soup? or maybe some bread... pay for electricity or maintenance? or does that not matter to you.
look at what happened with most of the money for katrina.

and fermion, look up some history. china literally saved tibet from its own demise.
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      05-31-2008, 05:49 PM   #47
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and fermion, look up some history. china literally saved tibet from its own demise.
the chinese destroyed 90% of the revered tibetan monastaries and violently crushed protestors in 1959 killing hundreds of thousands. then, there were the purges and violence throughout the cultural revolution. THIS is the actual history. China saving tibet from its own demise is just communist party propaganda that you brainwashed chinese are all too happy to lap up. If China saved Tibet, then why did the UN General Assembly condemn China on "violations of fundamental human rights of the Tibetan people" in 1959, 1961 and 1965?

If you don't believe me, you should look it up.

And the senseless violence, oppression and murder of tibetans is still occuring today.



Are you going to tell me next that the Chinese government was "saving" the Tianamen Square protestors?
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      06-01-2008, 06:06 AM   #48
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the chinese destroyed 90% of the revered tibetan monastaries and violently crushed protestors in 1959 killing hundreds of thousands. then, there were the purges and violence throughout the cultural revolution. THIS is the actual history. China saving tibet from its own demise is just communist party propaganda that you brainwashed chinese are all too happy to lap up. If China saved Tibet, then why did the UN General Assembly condemn China on "violations of fundamental human rights of the Tibetan people" in 1959, 1961 and 1965?

If you don't believe me, you should look it up.

And the senseless violence, oppression and murder of tibetans is still occuring today.



Are you going to tell me next that the Chinese government was "saving" the Tianamen Square protestors?
Be careful fermion, you will upset the apologists on the board. They are firmly convinced that the butchers in Peking rule Tibet by divine right and do so in a loving, fatherly manner. Tibetans just do not know what is good for themselves, I'm surprised you do not appreciate that.
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      06-01-2008, 09:10 AM   #49
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it's so sad how people just follow the party line and not think for themselves. i'm not bashing everyone in china, but I admire those that speak out against the atrocities in tibet, burma, sudan, etc... don't be a complicit ignorant tool of government propaganda under the guise of nationalism.
to say tibetans don't want autonomy and needs to be governed is just ludacris and quite patronizing. it's like saying the japanese were raping the people of nanking, china because the chinese needed to be purged of their ethnicity.
a true patriot is critical of the negative action of their country.
No more excuses please....stop china's government of plundering the world in the name of it's people. PEACE
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      06-01-2008, 01:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by fermion View Post
the chinese destroyed 90% of the revered tibetan monastaries and violently crushed protestors in 1959 killing hundreds of thousands. then, there were the purges and violence throughout the cultural revolution. THIS is the actual history. China saving tibet from its own demise is just communist party propaganda that you brainwashed chinese are all too happy to lap up. If China saved Tibet, then why did the UN General Assembly condemn China on "violations of fundamental human rights of the Tibetan people" in 1959, 1961 and 1965?

If you don't believe me, you should look it up.

And the senseless violence, oppression and murder of tibetans is still occuring today.



Are you going to tell me next that the Chinese government was "saving" the Tianamen Square protestors?
rofl @ youtube vid as evidence. im glad i didnt get my education from youtube.
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      06-01-2008, 02:02 PM   #51
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i'm only Chinese on paper... they don't have a box that says "Taiwanese" on most applications.
It's the same shit, yes you can state that you are Taiwanese, but hey we all know that Taiwanese came from Chinese, unless you were a native.

I do have the Taiwan flag < by my name because I was born and raised there.
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      06-01-2008, 03:13 PM   #52
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i think even the ones that came in 49' qualify as being taiwanese. i mean, if your family lived in america for 50+ years, then you're definately considered an american. that holds the same for the chinese that fled communism 50 years ago.
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      06-01-2008, 03:16 PM   #53
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rofl @ youtube vid as evidence. im glad i didnt get my education from youtube.
youtube/wikipedia does not automatically mean it is bad or wrong. most wikipedia and youtube content originated from reputable sources. they only end up on youtube because youtube is the most convenient place to host videos.
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      06-01-2008, 06:07 PM   #54
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1) yes the Tibetan people haven't been granted religious freedom for 50 years...kind of...you see ignorant people think the chinese government does not allow buddhism or something...ahhh buddhism is the main religion for the Hans (the ruling communist party) and they are allowed to pratice and pray as they wish. Chinese living in the north west are allowed to pratice Muslim as they wish, same with the mongolians to the north and hindus to the south west. CHINA HAS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, the government is only against those "monks" in tibet that use religion as a mask to promote social unrest and attempts to test the sovegnity. To the Chinese government, thats domestic terrorism.
HERE IN AMERICA... we have religious freedom right, we are cool with Islamic religions as long as they are not EXTREME FUNDAMENTALIST that promote violence and terrorism.

BESIDES, at the bare minimum, at least the Tibetans have not have to be slaves for the last 50 years as well. Its like taking a kid from Africa where he has no food and water and bring him to America and give him food and water and thats it. Pretty soon, hes going to forget about the pain of going hungry and cry for toys. Whats worse off a kid thats crying for toys or a kid thats crying for food?

2) CHINA IS ACCEPTING DONATIONS...you guys are getting the chinese earthquake mixed up with the myanmar cycloon. The chinese opened its borders from day 1 vs myanmar not accepting shit until very recently on the verge of getting charged of humanity crimes by the UN.

3) All those who said Im not gonna donate because the chinese have plenty of money, they have no debt, bunch country own them money, and by not using its because the communist party don't care blah blah blah....wooooooooow how retarded is that...
Like any country, the chinese government have an annual budget and not much more liquid asset like a shit load of money just sitting in a warehouse. Most of the chinese assets comes from bonds from various countries, US being the biggest. So according to your theory, the chinese have money so find a way to get it right. How do you think they would get more money? start collecting from the bonds right? DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THE US CAN AFFORD TO PAY BACK BILLIONS OF DEBT TO THE CHINESE JUST LIKE THAT. and if if they did, what do you think will happen to our economy, to YOU dumbass?!?

3) I was going to start a thread on 5.12 as soon as it happened, but from past experience on this board, ANY TOPIC relating to China will eventually lead back to the never ending tireless debate of fuck communist, fuck china, love china, love chinese...blah blah blah (as demonstrated on this thread)...im so tired of this shit, we can't have a single thread dedicated to just helping innocent people in need without dragging in politics, race, ethnicity and all the bad shit in the world along with it.
Thats why I didn't start one and instead used my time to organize donation drives and relief effort, instead of sitting here debating uselessly, I helped raise close to $6,000 on my campus and community.

4) Donate or not, I don't really care, but don't talk shit on the people who have gone through such tragedy. For all the kids that were orphaned, all the parents that lost their kids, all the innocent who lost friends, family, homes. You serious, you have the heart to to say Karma is a bitch?!? I mean what the fuck does that mean? what did all the people that died and suffered in Katrina do? what did all the people died in Burma did? What about the earthquake in Tokyo? Taiwan? Its a natural disaster, it happens, and we deal with it. Its got nothing to do with "karma".

FUCK SHARON STONE YOU CUNT.
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      06-01-2008, 06:20 PM   #55
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^^ your numbering is wrong

& for the record, most debates on this forum just lead to attacks on character which isnt needed
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      06-01-2008, 06:24 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by samwoo2go View Post
1) yes the Tibetan people haven't been granted religious freedom for 50 years...kind of...you see ignorant people think the chinese government does not allow buddhism or something...ahhh buddhism is the main religion for the Hans (the ruling communist party) and they are allowed to pratice and pray as they wish. Chinese living in the north west are allowed to pratice Muslim as they wish, same with the mongolians to the north and hindus to the south west. CHINA HAS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, the government is only against those "monks" in tibet that use religion as a mask to promote social unrest and attempts to test the sovegnity. To the Chinese government, thats domestic terrorism.
HERE IN AMERICA... we have religious freedom right, we are cool with Islamic religions as long as they are not EXTREME FUNDAMENTALIST that promote violence and terrorism.

BESIDES, at the bare minimum, at least the Tibetans have not have to be slaves for the last 50 years as well. Its like taking a kid from Africa where he has no food and water and bring him to America and give him food and water and thats it. Pretty soon, hes going to forget about the pain of going hungry and cry for toys. Whats worse off a kid thats crying for toys or a kid thats crying for food?

2) CHINA IS ACCEPTING DONATIONS...you guys are getting the chinese earthquake mixed up with the myanmar cycloon. The chinese opened its borders from day 1 vs myanmar not accepting shit until very recently on the verge of getting charged of humanity crimes by the UN.

3) All those who said Im not gonna donate because the chinese have plenty of money, they have no debt, bunch country own them money, and by not using its because the communist party don't care blah blah blah....wooooooooow how retarded is that...
Like any country, the chinese government have an annual budget and not much more liquid asset like a shit load of money just sitting in a warehouse. Most of the chinese assets comes from bonds from various countries, US being the biggest. So according to your theory, the chinese have money so find a way to get it right. How do you think they would get more money? start collecting from the bonds right? DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THE US CAN AFFORD TO PAY BACK BILLIONS OF DEBT TO THE CHINESE JUST LIKE THAT. and if if they did, what do you think will happen to our economy, to YOU dumbass?!?

3) I was going to start a thread on 5.12 as soon as it happened, but from past experience on this board, ANY TOPIC relating to China will eventually lead back to the never ending tireless debate of fuck communist, fuck china, love china, love chinese...blah blah blah (as demonstrated on this thread)...im so tired of this shit, we can't have a single thread dedicated to just helping innocent people in need without dragging in politics, race, ethnicity and all the bad shit in the world along with it.
Thats why I didn't start one and instead used my time to organize donation drives and relief effort, instead of sitting here debating uselessly, I helped raise close to $6,000 on my campus and community.

4) Donate or not, I don't really care, but don't talk shit on the people who have gone through such tragedy. For all the kids that were orphaned, all the parents that lost their kids, all the innocent who lost friends, family, homes. You serious, you have the heart to to say Karma is a bitch?!? I mean what the fuck does that mean? what did all the people that died and suffered in Katrina do? what did all the people died in Burma did? What about the earthquake in Tokyo? Taiwan? Its a natural disaster, it happens, and we deal with it. Its got nothing to do with "karma".

FUCK SHARON STONE YOU CUNT.
thank you very well said

the karma part...i think you misunderstood
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      06-01-2008, 06:29 PM   #57
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thank you very well said

the karma part...i think you misunderstood
Haha no I didn't I was refering to Sharon Stone not you...
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      06-01-2008, 08:03 PM   #58
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buddhism is the main religion for the Hans (the ruling communist party) and they are allowed to pratice and pray as they wish.
if that is the case, why does the chinese government plant informers within tibetan monastaries and force monks to undergo "patriotic reeducation"? are you saying the chinese government closed down 90% of tibet's monastaries in the name of religious freedom?

Quote:
the government is only against those "monks" in tibet that use religion as a mask to promote social unrest and attempts to test the sovegnity. To the Chinese government, thats domestic terrorism.
this sounds awfully similar to burma doesn't it? it seems that the chinese communist regime is not much different than the military junta in burma. kinda scary isn't it.

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BESIDES, at the bare minimum, at least the Tibetans have not have to be slaves for the last 50 years as well. Its like taking a kid from Africa where he has no food and water and bring him to America and give him food and water and thats it. Pretty soon, hes going to forget about the pain of going hungry and cry for toys. Whats worse off a kid thats crying for toys or a kid thats crying for food?
are you claiming that china rescued starving tibetans by giving them food and water? you seem to be forgetting some of communist china's unpleasant history. remember Mao's great leap forward between 1959 and 1962? The forced collectivization of agriculture resulted in the biggest famine in modern history with an excess of 15 million people within china starving to death during which over 100,000 tibetans starved to death. don't believe me? look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

by the way, the 15 million deaths is the government's own statistics, the actual number is believed to be far higher.

china didn't rescue starving tibetans. china caused the tibetans to starve to death.

just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. it just means the communist chinese government has succeeded in suppressing its own unpleasant history. it is painful to comtemplate the fact that there are hundreds of millions of chinese in china and worldwide who are growing up now without knowledge of these events. as they say, those who forget history and destined to repeat it.
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      06-02-2008, 02:38 AM   #59
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o man here we go...

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if that is the case, why does the chinese government plant informers within tibetan monastaries and force monks to undergo "patriotic reeducation"? are you saying the chinese government closed down 90% of tibet's monastaries in the name of religious freedom?

No the chinese governerment closed down Tibet temples in the name of national security...Do Americans torture terrist suspects without due process in Guatemala in the name of human rights?


this sounds awfully similar to burma doesn't it? it seems that the chinese communist regime is not much different than the military junta in burma. kinda scary isn't it.

No that sounds like any nation in the world, no government will stand by and do nothing when its citizens pratice in domestic terrism. This is why we have FBI in united states, for people like this.



are you claiming that china rescued starving tibetans by giving them food and water? you seem to be forgetting some of communist china's unpleasant history. remember Mao's great leap forward between 1959 and 1962? The forced collectivization of agriculture resulted in the biggest famine in modern history with an excess of 15 million people within china starving to death during which over 100,000 tibetans starved to death. don't believe me? look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

by the way, the 15 million deaths is the government's own statistics, the actual number is believed to be far higher.

china didn't rescue starving tibetans. china caused the tibetans to starve to death.

just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. it just means the communist chinese government has succeeded in suppressing its own unpleasant history. it is painful to comtemplate the fact that there are hundreds of millions of chinese in china and worldwide who are growing up now without knowledge of these events. as they say, those who forget history and destined to repeat it.

O save me the whole evil Mao speech, trust me every chinese knows the history, its only been 50 years for PRC, not that long to remember. My grandfather was a victim of the great leap forward and the cultural revolution.

There is a famous saying in China.
Mao...
Merit for birth of nation
Demerit for nation building
Crime for cultural revolution

Lets not forget during those times, Tibetans are not the only ones starving, so were the Hans and any other ethnicity in China at the time. Not saying that makes it ok, but at least the government weren't being biased at all when it comes to dicking people over, its not like the chinese government made the Tibetans sit at the back of the bus or anything.

Do you even know half the shit that happened during the cultural revolution? 1 of the things is the goverment tried to help out the rural areas and even out the differences between the city and country, all university education stopped and young HANS from the city were persuaded/forced to join the effort relieving the country... MILLIONS of HAN students got trucked into the country doing hard labor alongside rural people including but not limited to TIBETANS, and some never returned to the city.

Get your history right, the chinese liberated tibetans from the enslavment by the british and the puppet elitist buddhist government they help set up led by dalai lama. And then everybody starved in China not just the Tibetans. and that was almost 50 years ago, now they are living way better lives than their neighbor in Burma, which other wise would not be possible without the chinese.
If you must say the chinese starved the Tibetans, FINE the chinese starved the ELITIST BUDDHIST REGIME in Tibet who were feeding themselves fat while enslaving millions of Tibetans who were not buddhist and must subject themselves to middle ages treatment including starvation.

just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. it just means ignorant foreigners failed to understand history of another nation before they decided to open their mouth. it is painful to comtemplate the fact that there are hundreds of millions of foreigners worldwide who are growing up now that actually think chinese people don't know their own history for good or for bad. as they say, those who don't know history are destined to sound like a fool.
It just pisses me off to no end when people come out here talking like they are chinese history experts or something. And if you really are a chinese history expert, why must you sir only talk about the bad. Why can't you be subjective thus making youself more credible.

MAO IS EVIL DURING THE CULTURAL REVOLIUTION - AGREEDED...
now what...
why don't you talk about Dung's socio-economic reform during the 80's which had a ripple effect throughout the country INCLUDING TIBET?
Why don't you talk about Hu's humane method of dealing with the recent Tibetan protest?
Why don't you talk about why a bigger percentage of chinese people receive free health care compared to united states?
Why don't you talk about the government's swift dealings with the recent earthquake compared to Katrina?

Is it because you didn't know, or you didn't want to be subjective?

O and just fyi, my grandpa was arrested and send to a chicken farm for 10 years because he spoke against mao's cultural revolution at his post (vice director of the district education department). when it ended and Dung took office he reinstated my grandpa and promoted him to the party secretary of the district where he later got promoted to be the mayor. He is retired now and receives completely free healthcare for him and his family including ME who is an US citizen, and more pension than he can spend, not to mention at retirement the government sold him a million dollar home in the middle of the city for 8 thousand.

Trust me, I know the bad shit the chinese government did and do. But unlike you, I also know about the good. From my humble viewpoint, as a whole, the government has served its people. Even during the great leap forward, which failed, what was the government's intent? def not to kill millions, just bad policy to try to strengthen the nation and provide for the citizens.

China has thousands years of history, but PRC only has 50 years. for the most populus country in the world with 1.3 billion people without any infrastrure and ranked the poorest in the world in 1949 to develope into what she is now is nothing short of a miracle. Yes shes got plenty of problems still but shit takes time man. Hows was America 50 years after independence? DPRK is still the same today as she is in 1949, what the hell did they do for 50 years? I know what the chinese did.

In conclusion, if you support Tibet indepedence, your supporting Theocracy, because like it or not that's whos fighting the hardest for Tibet independence, the ones NOT starving before the chinese came. The ones with the whips, the ones that own slaves, the ones that ruled.

open your eyes
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      06-02-2008, 02:58 AM   #60
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"Whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese after 1959, they did abolish slavery and the Tibetan serfdom system of unpaid labor."

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
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      06-02-2008, 03:27 AM   #61
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yea, i'm sure saving as many lives as possible was a major concern in tiananmen square and in tibet...



by your logic, the entire world is african as we all descended from there at some point. calling the people in taiwan chinese is like calling the americans english.

taiwan has a totally different culture, government system and even speak chinese with a different accent. taiwan values freedom, democracy and is a thoroughly modern first world country. china values oppression, communist party dictatorship, and the average person earns $3000 a year. i don't understand how people can consider taiwan and china as even remotely the same.
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it has nothing to do with looking down on other people... but, if people ask.. I'd prefer to say I was Taiwanese and not Chinese... simple as that. Besides, hearing the stories of what the Chinese people did to the Taiwanese people back during the war, could justify why I am indifferent towards China... I wasn't alive then but I could care less about China now.

But regardless, this thread is about donating to the earthquake victims... and I agree with someone that posted earlier that China has more than enough money to take care of themselves.. they just choose not to.

and lastly, Taiwanese and Chinese languages are different... we don't have the annoying "R" sound after every word.
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Trying going a year without using/buying/eating/crafting anything thats NOT made in China... I really doubt you could do it. So, since China makes almost everything we use daily, how could they not afford to take care of their victims?...
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china holds $1.6 trillion dollars in foreign currency reserves. that's just money that is literally sitting there (mostly in the form of us government bonds). china does not NEED donations. if they speak of money shortcomings, its just the communist government refusing to spend money to help their own people.
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donating to burma is also a waste. there are literally hundreds of tons of supplies sitting on airfields in thailand unable to reach the people who really need it because the military government refuses to grant clearance for more foreign aid workers.
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and you know this how? are you posting from China as we speak? don't believe everything you read...
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the reason they bitch is that they have not been given religious freedom in over FIFTY years. they are also seeing their culture being destroyed daily by the thousands of chinese immigrants sent to tibet by the communist regime to tip the demographics. the chinese government is literally working to make the tibetans a minority in their own homeland. the tibetans bitching is not an embarassment. the real embarassment is that this type of cultural genocide is allowed to occur in the 21th century.
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you're kidding right?

tibet is the most impoverished region in an already impoverished china.



if you mean the privilege to be thrown in jail without charge and the privilege to be arrested if you display a picture of the dalai lama or the tibetan flag, then i will agree with you, the tibetans have more "privileges"



they just lack one little thing, freedom itself
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china's biggest problem is that the current generation growing up there has no memories of tianamen square and the government has successfully suppressed any information about the incident. its shocking the number of young people from china who don't know the truth behind the incident. i've spoken to ones who believe that the tiannamen square uprising was instigated by foreigners seeking to destablize the country and destroy the socialist revolution.

it is sad that these chinese youths ferverently support the same government that used tanks and machineguns to massacre thousands of students their own age in 1989.

that being said, the earthquake has had the positive effect of opening up the media slightly and raising the taboo topic of rampant communist party corruption. hopefully this new focus on china will let the overseas communists see what is wrong with their homeland and spread the message when they go home.
hallo? if u dun want to donate or support this thread
and all u want to talk about is Taiwanese and Chinese, culture, government system and problems...."WE DUN FUCKING CARE....AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS THREAD AND MAKE UR OWN THREAD"
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      06-02-2008, 04:53 AM   #62
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yea, i'm sure saving as many lives as possible was a major concern in tiananmen square and in tibet...



by your logic, the entire world is african as we all descended from there at some point. calling the people in taiwan chinese is like calling the americans english.

taiwan has a totally different culture, government system and even speak chinese with a different accent. taiwan values freedom, democracy and is a thoroughly modern first world country. china values oppression, communist party dictatorship, and the average person earns $3000 a year. i don't understand how people can consider taiwan and china as even remotely the same.
without china, taiwan would crumble. End of story.

And you sir seriously need to educate yourself. The Chinese citizens have been showing a lot of passion and heart in the forms of private donations. Last I heard, there has been 40 billion yuan donated to the disaster area. The execution of the military was as close to perfection as one can get. A disaster head quarter was setup within 2 hrs after the earth quake struck. Supplies and support arrived in truck loads. The people that weren't helped immediately were the ones that are in more rural areas where entire mountains collapsed on top of villages. I know this because my family is from that area and i still have relatives there.

And as for your whole view on the tibetans, everyone's asking for them to free tibet. Did they ever consider what tibet was like before the communist party took over? There was no government, no law, the religion was both government and law. If you were born a lower class you stayed that way. People of low standing that worked for richer people were essentially slaves with no way of getting out. Just thought you know. Just because you can read some editor's opinion on this issue, doesn't mean it is right and it shows the big picture. You should definitely do a little more research on something you feel so strongly about. Open your eyes and no just take other people's word for it.

... alright i'm done.
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      06-02-2008, 04:58 AM   #63
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hallo? if u dun want to donate or support this thread
and all u want to talk about is Taiwanese and Chinese, culture, government system and problems...."WE DUN FUCKING CARE....AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS THREAD AND MAKE UR OWN THREAD"
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for real
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      06-02-2008, 07:00 AM   #64
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dude are there some site or links i can donate too?
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      06-02-2008, 07:24 AM   #65
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http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1757-1-1.html
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      06-02-2008, 10:36 AM   #66
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without china, taiwan would crumble. End of story.


And as for your whole view on the tibetans, everyone's asking for them to free tibet. Did they ever consider what tibet was like before the communist party took over? There was no government, no law, the religion was both government and law. If you were born a lower class you stayed that way. People of low standing that worked for richer people were essentially slaves with no way of getting out. Just thought you know. Just because you can read some editor's opinion on this issue, doesn't mean it is right and it shows the big picture. You should definitely do a little more research on something you feel so strongly about. Open your eyes and no just take other people's word for it.

... alright i'm done.
In what way does Taiwan's survival depend on the PRC? I would think that the PRC is the largest threat to their survival.

So, you are saying the PRC invaded, pillaged, and continues to oppress the Tibetans for their own good?
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