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      08-05-2008, 05:39 PM   #67
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Not having any real time behind the wheel of the new M3 I can't say either way which should be better, but I would have thought that if the car was to be used on track more than the occasional once or twice then the M3 without EDC would be the way to go.

Nothing I have ever felt matches the feel you get with stock springs and dampers.
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      08-05-2008, 05:44 PM   #68
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Even with EDC the car is very soft. The lean pretty well controled for a stock car.

It would be nice to know the spring rates for the car. Are they different with and without edc? Its an unknown (to me). That said EDC can be set to comfort or sport, either of which behave just like a normal car. Now sure why you would not want this system. There is simply no downside.



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Originally Posted by footie View Post
Not having any real time behind the wheel of the new M3 I can't say either way which should be better, but I would have thought that if the car was to be used on track more than the occasional once or twice then the M3 without EDC would be the way to go.

Nothing I have ever felt matches the feel you get with stock springs and dampers.
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      08-06-2008, 01:45 AM   #69
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Enigma,

My comments were solely an opinion based on use on the track and if that is most important to you or not. I too have ordered EDC because I will solely be driving it on the road and prefer to option to soften or harden the settings as desired.
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      08-06-2008, 01:49 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Enigma,

My comments were solely an opinion based on use on the track and if that is most important to you or not. I too have ordered EDC because I will solely be driving it on the road and prefer to option to soften or harden the settings as desired.

Adjustability at the track is a nice thing to have. I suspect at Reno Fernley normall or comfort would be faster. At the re-surfaced Laguna, normal or sport are probably better options.
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      08-06-2008, 03:33 AM   #71
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Unless my understanding of what EDC is doing is wrong, then a constant damper/spring rating should provide a more balanced behaviour from the car. You have to remember that my time so far is limited with EDC and until I finally get my own and start to throw it around I am basing an opinion on previous experience instead of knowledge of the here and now.
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      08-06-2008, 08:17 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Unless my understanding of what EDC is doing is wrong, then a constant damper/spring rating should provide a more balanced behaviour from the car. You have to remember that my time so far is limited with EDC and until I finally get my own and start to throw it around I am basing an opinion on previous experience instead of knowledge of the here and now.
If my understanding is correct,when it is in Sport the damping rate does not change so it is at a fixed rate regardless of body motion.The sport setting is what I use on track or aggressive smooth road blasting.I found that the other settings are too loose feeling for my tastes.Normally on the street I run in the comfort mode and I found this to be one of the most livable everyday performance vehicles I have ever had.
As a a dedicated track car the car is too comprimised with alignment settings,spring rates to be an agressive track day tool.Yes it can be improved on but only at the expense of its wonderful everday useability.I am not not willing to do that,so I can see a dedicated track day tool in my future.
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      08-06-2008, 10:31 AM   #73
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That's my point, as an everyday mode of transport that is pretty handy on a track the M3 is good but like all daily drives the suspension can't cope with serious track work.

Out of all these type of systems currently used in production cars the all ones that have impressed me where Audi DRC system in the RS4 and RS6, I like the thinking behind how it works and the way it behaves under heavy corner loads and the other system is the one used in the Vette, R8 and 599 among others, this system seems to react very quickly to changes and seems to have no weight penalty.
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      08-06-2008, 11:37 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
That's my point, as an everyday mode of transport that is pretty handy on a track the M3 is good but like all daily drives the suspension can't cope with serious track work.
But thats not what you said at all. You said the stock non-edc car would be better than the EDC car.

I agree both are too soft/comprimised for track use. However, having said that the edc car is amazingly versitile. very comfortable while not embarising itself at the track.

IMO: The comfort mode is underdamped for the spring rates. Sport mode is close to the ideal shock rate for the springs.
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      08-06-2008, 11:42 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post

IMO: The comfort mode is underdamped for the spring rates. Sport mode is close to the ideal shock rate for the springs.
Not for our crap roads
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      08-06-2008, 11:45 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
That's my point, as an everyday mode of transport that is pretty handy on a track the M3 is good but like all daily drives the suspension can't cope with serious track work.

Out of all these type of systems currently used in production cars the all ones that have impressed me where Audi DRC system in the RS4 and RS6, I like the thinking behind how it works and the way it behaves under heavy corner loads and the other system is the one used in the Vette, R8 and 599 among others, this system seems to react very quickly to changes and seems to have no weight penalty.
Yes these systems do work quite well but my only experiance with them is on a non Z51 equipped C6 Corvette,which is not the way I would order one as the Z51 is only way to go and still produces a reasonable ride/handling comprimise.
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      08-06-2008, 11:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Not for our crap roads
Sorry, meant "underdamped" in the sense of its not ideal for controling the cars movement. Its very much better for most of the roads.

Hence the beauty of normal mode....
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      08-06-2008, 03:35 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
But thats not what you said at all. You said the stock non-edc car would be better than the EDC car.
I still agree with that opinion, what I was later talking about was the comments of Gearhead regarding EDC.

I know BMW said that their sport mode uncouples the electronics in the dampers but I am finding it hard to believe this is true, any system of these types still have some control over things.

I know if it was my intention to track the M3 all of the time I would not have ticked the EDC option.
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      08-06-2008, 04:29 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I still agree with that opinion, what I was later talking about was the comments of Gearhead regarding EDC.

I know BMW said that their sport mode uncouples the electronics in the dampers but I am finding it hard to believe this is true, any system of these types still have some control over things.

I know if it was my intention to track the M3 all of the time I would not have ticked the EDC option.
I believe the statement made by BMW that Sport is completely passive. Why would they lie about that. That is a FEATURE.

If I was going to be doing a lot of track work I'd still get EDC. Sportmode is pretty good.
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      08-06-2008, 06:24 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I believe the statement made by BMW that Sport is completely passive. Why would they lie about that. That is a FEATURE.

If I was going to be doing a lot of track work I'd still get EDC. Sportmode is pretty good.
Each to their own, I have no problems with someone having a different opinion to my own. Maybe I'm a little old school on such things and can't expect anything other than normal dampers and springs doing the job for track work.

Though I would love to hear BMW's own view on the subject.
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      08-06-2008, 06:27 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Each to their own, I have no problems with someone having a different opinion to my own. Maybe I'm a little old school on such things and can't expect anything other than normal dampers and springs doing the job for track work.
If you pull the top off an EDC strut, you will find its just a complety normal SA dampener and spring. Just like many put on their cars for track use. There is just a little motor that snaps on the top to turn the adjuster knob instead of having to get out of the car, open the hood, and use the shock adjuster tool to do it.

BTW: if anone is taking a E92 to the track I would suggest pulling the camber pins out. Its real easy and adds a little extra camber for the front.
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      08-06-2008, 09:29 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
If you pull the top off an EDC strut, you will find its

BTW: if anone is taking a E92 to the track I would suggest pulling the camber pins out. Its real easy and adds a little extra camber for the front.
Please explain about these camber pins.
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      08-06-2008, 10:12 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
If you pull the top off an EDC strut, you will find its just a complety normal SA dampener and spring. Just like many put on their cars for track use. There is just a little motor that snaps on the top to turn the adjuster knob instead of having to get out of the car, open the hood, and use the shock adjuster tool to do it.
OK...now is it possible to disconnect the motors and adjust the shocks to match stiffer springs? If it is possible to adjust the shocks to "stiffer than sport" by hand, that would allow even more adjustability and an ability to really dial-in the car's attitude on track.

Or would it be possible to shift all the settings to stiffer?...ex- pull motors, turn the adjusters to stiffer, re-install motors. That way all three modes would be stiffer?

Looks like I have some experimenting to do with my PBox in a few weeks...

Be good,
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      08-06-2008, 10:50 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
If you pull the top off an EDC strut, you will find its just a complety normal SA dampener and spring. Just like many put on their cars for track use. There is just a little motor that snaps on the top to turn the adjuster knob instead of having to get out of the car, open the hood, and use the shock adjuster tool to do it.

BTW: if anone is taking a E92 to the track I would suggest pulling the camber pins out. Its real easy and adds a little extra camber for the front.
so you can pull the pins on the EDC car and get the secret extra camber? cool.

but how can it be a normal SA damper if normal and comfort modes are active?
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      08-07-2008, 12:35 AM   #85
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Guys don't forget that the EDC system uses the speed and steering wheel angle as well as accelerometers front and rear to tune the shock damping. I think the DSC system even has its input. Pretty advanced.
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      08-07-2008, 07:35 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Guys don't forget that the EDC system uses the speed and steering wheel angle as well as accelerometers front and rear to tune the shock damping. I think the DSC system even has its input. Pretty advanced.

I don't doubt that the system is very advanced but still feel for proper track work a normal setup would be preferable.
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      08-07-2008, 11:06 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I don't doubt that the system is very advanced but still feel for proper track work a normal setup would be preferable.
I can see preferences coming into play, but a passive setup simply cannot beat a well optimized/programmed active setup. (Larry Koch was kind of rolling his eyes and saying similar things when people asked him about performance differences between the active and passive modes). That's why they banned active suspension in F1 in the 90s.
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      08-07-2008, 11:22 AM   #88
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Quote:
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I can see preferences coming into play, but a passive setup simply cannot beat a well optimized/programmed active setup. (Larry Koch was kind of rolling his eyes and saying similar things when people asked him about performance differences between the active and passive modes). That's why they banned active suspension in F1 in the 90s.
The reason for it being banned in F1 was the unfair advantage it give the human element in a race. The active suspension ironed out the vibrations and bumps much better that the normal setup leaving the driver less drained.

But to compare a sportscar on a race track to an F1 car is apples and oranges, awd was also banned for it's unfair advantage but to say it's better would be to miss the point. Active suspension doesn't feel the same as a well tuned stock suspension, it behaves totally different, I am not saying it's worse or better, just different.

I prefer the way stock suspension behaves on the track, the behaviour and dynamics are more predictable.

The real advantage I see active having over the normal setup is you can tune to suspension for different situations, soft for rough surfaces or firm for spirited driving. With a normal setup you compromise one or the other but remember my comments where for track use primarily.
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