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      12-05-2014, 04:13 PM   #1
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Should I get rid of my 2011 Comp Pack M3 DCT?

Dear E90post,

I wanted to go ahead and share my thoughts and opinions on the subject above as some of you might be going through the same situation. I am only sharing my personal opinion and therefore to each and their own, I donít ask that you agree or disagree with me. If you can get something out of my post, great! If not then donít waste your time reading, Im sure you have better things that you can do.


Having said that, as the title states I recently asked myself the question if I should go ahead and get rid of my 2011 M3 Comp Pack with DCT? Reason being is that this was my first non-manual transmission car, therefore it took some time getting used to it, but once I did I really started to appreciate the rev matching and the precision of the DCT. Then why change?
First reason: DCT transmission are not like a MT in a sense that you can just change the clutch and flywheel and call it a day, therefore they are very costly (I have been reading 8K USD or so depending on your dealer). You can only replace the transmission, and not fix it, in case there is an issue unless you have extended warranty which is $5,990 till 100K miles. Aside from that I would love to have a manual transmission back. As a purist I love to rev match on my own, downshift and have better control of the car rather than depend on the DCT.


Second reason: I purchased my car for 50K USD with 35K miles from the BMW dealer out the door and put 10K down. 6 months later and 7K miles more on the car, my trade in value is less or about the same as what I owe on the car which pretty much wipes out the 10K that I put down.
So to sum up, the main issue was the worry about repairs/replacement on the DCT and the depreciation rate.


Next I started to look around and see what I can do and what possible cars I could purchase that I would be happy with. Before I get into that, I want to point out the reason why I purchased my M3. In past 10 12 years I have owned 12 cars total. Anything from American Muscle cars, to JDM cars. While each had their own strong side, ex Corvette Grand Sport felt fast and great, loved the exhaust on it, the steering rack was too loose for me. Car was balanced, but I could never take a corner at 80 mph and know that I will come out of it with no issues at all. I also owned a couple of 350zís that were heavily modded on the suspension but lacked some power in a way.
So when the E92 M3 came around with its S65 V8 ITB motor and the engine rev up to 8300 RPM, and its 50/50 balance I was all over it. Aside from the performance, the competition wheels didnít need to be changed. The steering was sharp as a knife, and as far as the looks of the car, it was spot on.

During the last two weeks I have decided to drive the following cars within my price range or below as I had lost the equity I had in the car and thus I would need to finance a new car with no downpayment:


1.2014 Mistubishi EVO 34,800 out of the door price
2.2013 Subaru STI Ė (Fully built over 20K USD in mods) 33,000 out of the door price
3.2006 Carrera S MT Ė 38,000 out of the door price
4.2015 Ford Mustang GT performance pack (3.73 gears, recaro seats, brembo brakes, etc) Ė 37,000 out of the door price
5.1991 Acura NSX 42,000 out of the door


I donít want to get into details of every single car that I drove, however I will say this. After driving every single one of those cars, they either lacked power, or handling. Furthermore, interior styling was not near as perfect as the M, and although I am a big boost fanatic, I really appreciated the high revving NA ITBís, its so hard to beat it. All of the cars above even though in some cases my monthly payment would drop, I would still need to dish out money to get the cars to perform like an M3. The EVO lacked power and if I modded it, it would void the warranty, meanwhile the insurance on the EVO was more expensive than the M3. The STI was really quick really fun to drive, but didnít handle near as well as the EVO or the M3, therefore I started to look into a quick steering rack which would run me 4K USD.

The 2006 Carrera S was an nice car, however lacked the power that the M3 had, and trading a 2011 Car for a 2006 that is not complete according to my personal taste, I donít think so. The Mustang GT was much more improved this year in 2015, but the size of the front I feel like is the size of the whole M3, way too big of a car. Finally the 1991 NSX is something I really appreciated. I really loved the car, however in the end the dealer would not come down on the price and was not giving me anything great for my car. On top of that, once I sat back in the M3 and took the next corner I realized the reason in the first place why I bought the car.


Aside from these cars above, I have driven many others that I liked including a C6 Z06, Nissan 300zx TT, Toyota SUPRA TT, Nissan GTR35 (awesome car, but didnít like the size of the car), and countless BMW 135ís but none of them felt as complete as the M3.

For my case in the end I have decided to hold on to my E92 M3 and realized that whatever I was going to spend on those cars modding them, I would rather spend on my DCT if needed in the future. As for the depreciation, the car will eventually level off with the market as the E92 was the only M3 ever made with a V8 ITBS.
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      12-05-2014, 04:29 PM   #2
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I would say your only mistake when purchasing your E92 was the down payment. If you could afford 10k down, surely you could've afforded another $150 a month in your payment. I always think down payments are the biggest waste. Now I know individual situations like credit and other things factor in, but large money down is a waste. Other than that.....I think you're making a wise move ...................Phil
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      12-05-2014, 04:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
I would say your only mistake when purchasing your E92 was the down payment. If you could afford 10k down, surely you could've afforded another $150 a month in your payment. I always think down payments are the biggest waste. Now I know individual situations like credit and other things factor in, but large money down is a waste. Other than that.....I think you're making a wise move ...................Phil
$10k on a $50k car is a large down payment? Without that sounds like he'd be upside down on the loan, and paying out of pocket anyways in the event of sale. And he'd be out more interest $.

Check out Easycare for powertrain warranty op. Options for much less than $6k.
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      12-05-2014, 06:11 PM   #4
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I talked my dealer down to $5200 for platinum extended warranty, but couldn't pull the trigger. That's just a lot of damn money on a what-if. Powertrain warranty covers you in case of DCT or engine failure, but will still run close to $3K, which can be a hard pill to swallow.

With aftermarket parts for DCT becoming more available, DCT issues may not require a full multi-thousand-dollar replacement in the future, since the cost is due to BMW just ordering a new module from Getrag whenever there's an issue, rather than trying to fix it. Overall, there seem to be more reported MT failures than DCT ones (DCT had some software issues early on [see F80 guy whose DCT wouldn't go into reverse], and occasionally develops a leaky gasket which is a $150 fix). I would just change the fluid at some point, and not worry about it too much.

The biggest thing I would worry about are the A/C evaporators, which have a high failure rate according to several mechanics I've spoken to (people just don't publicize A/C failures online as much, I guess, since they aren't as sexy/spectacular as spun bearings).

Then there are the bearings. Fucking bearings. I probably wouldn't even be worried about it and would just take my chances without warranty if it weren't for those damn bearings, but my 2011 is approaching that 30K mile mark where many of the reported bearing failures randomly occurred (and it will be just out of warranty by then), so yay for bearings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
$10k on a $50k car is a large down payment? Without that sounds like he'd be upside down on the loan, and paying out of pocket anyways in the event of sale. And he'd be out more interest $.

Check out Easycare for powertrain warranty op. Options for much less than $6k.
20% is a huge down-payment. I pay 5% for houses, and 0% for cars. If that lump of cash will be making dividends for somebody, it's going to be me.
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      12-05-2014, 06:37 PM   #5
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Short answer...no.
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      12-05-2014, 07:46 PM   #6
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If mid 30s are your budget, and you want a manual and a warranty I would look at a 228i with track package. You can easily get 300hp with a simple mod (and if you do dinan you protect the factory warranty). Nicer than the Evo and STI. The Porsche is still out of warranty. Also, do you need a back seat?
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      12-05-2014, 08:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
I would say your only mistake when purchasing your E92 was the down payment. If you could afford 10k down, surely you could've afforded another $150 a month in your payment. I always think down payments are the biggest waste. Now I know individual situations like credit and other things factor in, but large money down is a waste. Other than that.....I think you're making a wise move ...................Phil
Please elaborate. Preferably with an example. I will be buying the 2016 M3 with full money down, no loans. That's not to say that I am really rich, I just don't like loans and try to live within my means so I only make big purchases when I have the means.
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      12-05-2014, 08:27 PM   #8
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umm, yes?
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      12-05-2014, 09:30 PM   #9
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I like the Mustang. Why not GT350 and if that's not enough power for you then GT350R.
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      12-05-2014, 09:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
20% is a huge down-payment. I pay 5% for houses, and 0% for cars. If that lump of cash will be making dividends for somebody, it's going to be me.
Ok, but if instead you're borrowing the lump of cash you've got interest outbound, i.e. it's making dividends for the bank. So you mean you're able to earn a markedly better rate than you're paying on the lump of cash. I'm not arguing, I'm interested in your thinking/experience.
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      12-05-2014, 10:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm918 View Post
Please elaborate. Preferably with an example. I will be buying the 2016 M3 with full money down, no loans. That's not to say that I am really rich, I just don't like loans and try to live within my means so I only make big purchases when I have the means.
So let's say you go out and lay 70 large on a new M3. 1 day later you total the car. Do you think you'll get 70 large in return from your insurance company? The gap from what you paid and market value is now money gone. I would rather take that large sum of money and invest it in the market. I will definitely make more than the interest rate I'm paying to use the banks money. Again, this will be based on individual credit and other factors. Some people have to lay down a large amount to get the deal done. Not scientific.....just my years of car buying experience and financial knowledge...........Phil
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      12-05-2014, 10:39 PM   #12
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Sell it ...not worth the extra cost. STI is more reliable.....I sold my M and gladly got a Grand Sport Corvette. It had a noise where the torque tube is. I figured out what was wrong and fixed it for 50 dollars. It was simply a torn acoustic boot under the shifter. You cant fix anything on a BMW for under 500 dollars...and its usually something serious...

Last edited by Sinful; 12-24-2014 at 08:16 PM.
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      12-05-2014, 10:44 PM   #13
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No. Doesn't get much better than this.
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      12-05-2014, 11:38 PM   #14
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Best advice would be to just keep the car obviously. If it's been reliable thus far I wouldn't worry that something will break in the future, especially the DCT. Only thing I would probably do is replace the bearings as a precaution.

After reading your thread though, I'm really glad I went with 6MT in the M3. I didn't even consider DCT when I was shopping but after owning the car I did wonder how it would be to have DCT. If it really bothers you I would get a '13 6MT ZCP and call it a day. I agree with you though, there aren't any cars out there that I would trade the M3 for…not even the new one!
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      12-05-2014, 11:43 PM   #15
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I have been thinking about getting rid of my M3. but cars i would consider are things like C7 corvette, GT350, next gen CTS-V , AMG c63 ETC.

never would i trade a E92 m3 for the cars on your list!
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      12-06-2014, 01:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
So let's say you go out and lay 70 large on a new M3. 1 day later you total the car. Do you think you'll get 70 large in return from your insurance company? The gap from what you paid and market value is now money gone. I would rather take that large sum of money and invest it in the market. I will definitely make more than the interest rate I'm paying to use the banks money. Again, this will be based on individual credit and other factors. Some people have to lay down a large amount to get the deal done. Not scientific.....just my years of car buying experience and financial knowledge...........Phil
I have thought about that approach. However, 2 things come to mind. How is that any different from owing a lender? Does the lender take the hit and takes whatever the insurance pays? I am guessing yes so that works out well.Credit is not an issue for me at all. But my main concern is that if I invest all that money and take out a car loan, I will not have the capacity to dish out 1k in car payments every month.
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      12-06-2014, 01:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm918 View Post
I have thought about that approach. However, 2 things come to mind. How is that any different from owing a lender? Does the lender take the hit and takes whatever the insurance pays? I am guessing yes so that works out well.Credit is not an issue for me at all. But my main concern is that if I invest all that money and take out a car loan, I will not have the capacity to dish out 1k in car payments every month.
Lender won't take the hit.......when you finance you can get gap insurance. Without gap insurance you have to cover the spread. Now that may be a wash since you dropped a hefty down payment. I would guess that owners that aren't financing don't get such insurance because they are willing to absorb the loss if something happens. Again, this is all based on each individuals situation. Remember this just my opinion and belief. I like to drive off with no money out of my pocket........Phil
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      12-06-2014, 03:16 AM   #18
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Lets face all performance cars break down and all are PITA.
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      12-06-2014, 04:41 AM   #19
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Stay away from that sti. Unless you get a proper compression/leak down test. My previous sti had the infamous ringland problem. Never again
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      12-06-2014, 07:24 AM   #20
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You should sell your M3. It's actually only worth about $10k. PM me and I'll come get it !

What's better than an E9x M3? Two of them, of course. Yours will look great next to mine!
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      12-06-2014, 09:05 AM   #21
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The down payment or not issue is not cut and dried, its a math problem. Also, check with your auto insurer, they may have a gap coverage policy endorsement.

Option 1: Borrow 70k at 2-3%, Take 70k and invest, higher rate higher risk (cds pay 1% so tat's a loss; plus even if you make 5%, you will pay tax at some point)

Option 2: Pay cash, feel better about not having debt, and not have payments or pay interest; but forgo investment opportunities that could yield a higher return.
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      12-06-2014, 09:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
The down payment or not issue is not cut and dried, its a math problem. Also, check with your auto insurer, they may have a gap coverage policy endorsement.

Option 1: Borrow 70k at 2-3%, Take 70k and invest, higher rate higher risk (cds pay 1% so tat's a loss; plus even if you make 5%, you will pay tax at some point)

Option 2: Pay cash, feel better about not having debt, and not have payments or pay interest; but forgo investment opportunities that could yield a higher return.
With interest rates where they are today, I personally would never use my cash. OPM (other people's money) is king with 30 day LIBOR at 0.16%; 10 year treasuries at 2.22%; new and used car rates at 1.99% for 5-6 years.

If you take that $70K and invest it in real estate, chances are pretty good that most of it (if not all early on) will be tax free through the utilization of depreciation. If you do even a little bit of homework, you can easily make 6-7% in the stock market.

To each their own though. Some people are just debt averse and that is understandable.
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