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      03-21-2009, 03:17 AM   #309
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      03-21-2009, 04:13 AM   #310
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I 'm a true enthusiast 100% , and I loved my 335i but didn't want to mod it(warranty claims). I wanted plug and play:Hence M3.

IRL I still think the 335i is the better car in daily driving, comfy stuff.
But talking about car enthusiasm: A twinturbo 6 is nice but doesn't come close to a 8400rpm M V8, just like a higly tuned EVO or GTR for that matter doesn't come close to a GT3/RS or a 430 Scuderia, though those higly tuned cars might be much faster.

Enthusiasm isn't only speed in a straight line, no not for me thank you. A enthusiast's car needs to have soul. Even a 800BHP 335i/EVO/GTR doesn't have soul imho.
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      03-21-2009, 04:07 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
It was certainly intended for you. Well considering I owned a 1.8T, I'll speak on behalf of someone that made that decision. I bought the 1.8T because it was cheaper. They were both close in numbers, but I could get a great deal on the 1.8t. I didn't think the 1.8t was a better car, they just had more 1.8T's to chose from and the VR6's were loaded out and usually much more expensive. As far as the Mustang. I'm still taking the V8, damn the numbers, it's a Mustang, and its just not the same if it doesn't have a V8. Plus, if the Mustang were to go a 4cyl turbo, or V6 turbo, it lands itself in some serious competition from Mistu, Subaru, BMW, etc..... and I'll assume that many enthusiasts would flock towards those since they are extremely proven in that market. Not to mention the heavy aftermarket from the Japanese. And like I said, if modding is your biggest thing, money no object, displacement will trump the smaller motor, because they can also go FI.

I think you have a misconception about the enthusiast and tuner crowd. They are not the same. Many enthusiasts do not plan on chipping their cars or upgrading the turbo's or I/H/E. This is the tuner crowd. As I said before they make up very little of the overall car market. The tuner crowd will take the turbo car, since it is cheaper. Not that this crowd is broke, but its a young demographic and money is still tight for many. You just automatically assume the enthusiast crowd will flock to one car without even seeing them yet, let alone driving it, or waiting for reviews, comparisons, etc... The tuner crowd is an easy guess, due to the small demographic with a younger age, and thinner pockets. But this is not the enthusiast crowd. Lets take the Z for example, which is a highly popular crowd amongst enthusiasts. Do you think they would prefer a 4 cyl 2.0T or the 6 cyl 3.7? There's no way to predict. The cheaper car will sell more, but there's no way to predict what the enthusiast market will prefer. Again it comes down to money. If what you say is true, then the enthusiast market should prefer the 335i, especially at its cheaper price point. Good luck finding that enthusiast.
I also owned a GTI 1.8T, actually one of the first 10 to be imported to CA.
I've also owned 2 VR6's VW's

I will agree with you that I should of been more clear with the "enthusiast" crowd and "tuner" crowd.
As a person who has owned over 30 cars in just over 20 years, plus a handful of motorcycles, I'd categorize myself as an enthusiast, but also a "tuner" to an extent.
I've owned everything from little 4 bangers, to 4 bangers with Turbos, to V6's, I6, and several V8's (including 3 Mustangs).

I personally find turbocharged 6's the best of both worlds, V8 power with V6 fuel efficiency.
But as I've said before, I absolutely LOVE V8's as well.
There is nothing that compares to the sound of them.

Again, don't get me wrong, I have never compared the 335i to the M3, they are different cars, but in many ways the same (they are both 3 series after all).

Price is always a consideration for anything you buy, but most people have a "range" that they will acceptably look into.
I still think both the enthusiast AND tuner group will take the Genesis 2.0T over the 3.8 V6.
A loaded up 2.0T and a more "basic" 3.8 probably won't be that far off in price. Once it comes out and there are dedicated forums to the car, I'm positive we'll see 80% of the people on it having the 2.0T. It is IIRC a version of the EVO engine, and Hyundai themselves have said it can be safely tuned to like 26 psi boost with no alterations. 300+ hp from it is a chip away. It will also be lighter.
To me that easily makes it both the enthusiast and tuner choice.

To each there own however, no reason to argue about it.
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      03-21-2009, 04:07 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
My post was edited before your response to tone down my message. It was more aggressive than I intended.

It's all good.
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      03-22-2009, 03:16 AM   #313
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I think a key factor in the Genesis will be the fact that it's a version of the Evo X motor. Aftermarket is always a heavy factor for the tuner crowd, and the fact that its an Evo motor will almost certainly guarantee its preference over the V6 for the tuner crowd. I just wish they could've fit the Genesis V8 in there. Which is a helluva first V8 from a company that used to make the Excel .

I consider myself a mild tuner. I like to make my car a little faster and try to add some things for looks to set it off from the others that are out there. On my 1.8t I had the APR chip. It was a nice car, but it was a bitch to drive(torque steer and power delivery), and had quite a few reliability issues. It made good power, but I never really liked the car. I also owned an SRT-4, which was loads of fun, but it was a cheap car and had heinous torque steer. I know they do well when setup for road courses but in anything close to stock form (handling wise), they are like wrestlling a bear. Now that can be attributed to the fwd setup, but turbo power delivery only amplified the problem. The only turbo rwd car I've driven was a +500whp Supra with TERRIBLE lag. Again it was entertaining in a straight line, but that kind of power delivery is absurd, and not realistic for a well balanced track car like the M3.

As far as my earlier post, I was a tad grumpy (I must be getting old), we all have our own preferences, and I just came out firing. Its a public forum and you can post however you want, you appear to be a knowledgable person, so I would say channel some of that energy towards the many other informative threads we have. I know its not easy, because it takes a lot for me to keep my mouth shut when the M3 fanboy shit starts around here. I usually only pipe up when there is misinformation out there. My problem is we have to have the 335i vs m3 discussion over and over, and it seems like if one M3 owner has something negative to say about the x35i on here, many x35i owners get offended, and then we have a pissing match. Which can only really be settled at the track. Too bad we don't have any chipped x35i drivers in my area. I'd love to have a day at the track with them, the 135i does scare me with its weight advantage though.
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      03-22-2009, 12:06 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
I think a key factor in the Genesis will be the fact that it's a version of the Evo X motor. Aftermarket is always a heavy factor for the tuner crowd, and the fact that its an Evo motor will almost certainly guarantee its preference over the V6 for the tuner crowd. I just wish they could've fit the Genesis V8 in there. Which is a helluva first V8 from a company that used to make the Excel .

I consider myself a mild tuner. I like to make my car a little faster and try to add some things for looks to set it off from the others that are out there. On my 1.8t I had the APR chip. It was a nice car, but it was a bitch to drive(torque steer and power delivery), and had quite a few reliability issues. It made good power, but I never really liked the car. I also owned an SRT-4, which was loads of fun, but it was a cheap car and had heinous torque steer. I know they do well when setup for road courses but in anything close to stock form (handling wise), they are like wrestlling a bear. Now that can be attributed to the fwd setup, but turbo power delivery only amplified the problem. The only turbo rwd car I've driven was a +500whp Supra with TERRIBLE lag. Again it was entertaining in a straight line, but that kind of power delivery is absurd, and not realistic for a well balanced track car like the M3.

As far as my earlier post, I was a tad grumpy (I must be getting old), we all have our own preferences, and I just came out firing. Its a public forum and you can post however you want, you appear to be a knowledgable person, so I would say channel some of that energy towards the many other informative threads we have. I know its not easy, because it takes a lot for me to keep my mouth shut when the M3 fanboy shit starts around here. I usually only pipe up when there is misinformation out there. My problem is we have to have the 335i vs m3 discussion over and over, and it seems like if one M3 owner has something negative to say about the x35i on here, many x35i owners get offended, and then we have a pissing match. Which can only really be settled at the track. Too bad we don't have any chipped x35i drivers in my area. I'd love to have a day at the track with them, the 135i does scare me with its weight advantage though.
Nice.
But don't let the 135i scare you, for many, on many tracks, it doesn't handle as well as the 335i. Its shorter wheelbase makes it feel friskier and sharper, but many tests and test drivers have shown, it's not really any faster around a track (some tracks yes, others the 335i is faster). The weird thing too is it hasn't shown to be much faster (and in some cases no faster) in a straight line either. Both seem to do the 1/4 mile in the 13.3-13.5 @ 104-106 mph range stock.

As for the M3 vs 335i comparisons, that's inevitable. They are the same breed and model car. One higher performance from the factory.
But like anything, people will compare their rides to every other out there.
It's just nice to be able to have decent discussion about it without Sticky turning it into an arrogant, ignorant and insulting pissing match, which I admittedly liked to partake in with him, mostly just to push his buttons.
But I don't know what finally got him banned, again, but I'm sure the mods just got tired of him constantly starting fights.

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      03-30-2009, 04:18 AM   #315
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^resume (yahwn)..

To summeries this amazing thread of 16 pages :

Stock:
The M3V8 is the more powerful and track car then the 335i. The M3V8 is always faster car compared to the 335i/135i. The 8500 rpm is much more 'racy expercience' then a the - wonderful! - turbo charged 6000 rpm engine. Also suspension is better with the M3. At daily driving the 335i does have some torque benefits at low revs compared to the M3 if you like to drive low gears, much torque. The 135i and the 335i are equal cars in performance.

Tuning:
That is another story but cannot - ofcourse - be used as arguments beneficial neither for the 335i as for the M3V8. You know what? A tuned Datsun Sunny (1981) - two turbo's and yetfighter engine - with 1698 Bhp is much faster then the M3V8!! You got my point?

So, this thread can be closed I presume?

Have fun
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(By the way, I drive the AC Schnitzer 135i! woooow, this is not a dull 3.0 TT I6 engine. Lets start another discussion M3 vs ACS1 ... )
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      04-01-2009, 02:28 PM   #316
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      04-06-2009, 04:44 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
But talking about car enthusiasm: A twinturbo 6 is nice but doesn't come close to a 8400rpm M V8, just like a higly tuned EVO or GTR for that matter doesn't come close to a GT3/RS or a 430 Scuderia, though those higly tuned cars might be much faster.

Enthusiasm isn't only speed in a straight line, no not for me thank you. A enthusiast's car needs to have soul. Even a 800BHP 335i/EVO/GTR doesn't have soul imho.
That's your opinion...I like high displacement high revving V8s just fine...and I love the M3. It's just not my cup of tea..there are no beans in it down low. Even stock the 335 delivers the power so much more down low...like a lazy man's V8. It's addictive and keeps my "enthusiasm" up just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acs1.35i View Post
^resume (yahwn)..

Stock:
At daily driving the 335i does have some torque benefits at low revs compared to the M3 if you like to drive low gears, much torque. The 135i and the 335i are equal cars in performance.
Some torque benefits? A LOT.
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      04-06-2009, 08:22 PM   #318
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I have driven a 335i many times and I don't understand this fascination with low rpm crank torque numbers. It's a great engine but it runs out of breath a little bit as you near redline. It's power delivery comes on very suddenly and personally I think it's too smooth for me; I'd have even more speeding tickets if I owned one.

It's pretty simple, the M3 comes with these things called gears... you press the right pedal down and the engine RPMs shoot up very fast producing lots of torque at the rear wheels. Seriously, I have a Z4M and the speed at which it climbs toward redline in lower gears is amazing. An M3 with similar ratios and the S65 engine, which is even more responsive, should have no problems reaching its powerband very quickly. When I want torque, I only have to put my foot down and make sure I'm in the proper gear.
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      04-07-2009, 01:13 AM   #319
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people are still arguing about this?
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      04-08-2009, 03:15 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335lvr View Post
That's your opinion...I like high displacement high revving V8s just fine...and I love the M3. It's just not my cup of tea..there are no beans in it down low. Even stock the 335 delivers the power so much more down low...like a lazy man's V8. It's addictive and keeps my "enthusiasm" up just fine.


Some torque benefits? A LOT.
After some time with a 335, I don't understand these claims of how much torque the 335 has. I'm sure once chipped/modded it is. But in stock form, it is no torque monster. THe feel between the two cars is different, and under 3k rpm the 335 feels punchier, but I'm not sure where you get this idea of "stock the 335 delivers the power SO much more down low". Now the one I drove was an 08, so maybe older ones are different, but I think you are exxagerating a bit. Then again, feel is subjective.
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      04-10-2009, 01:29 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
After some time with a 335, I don't understand these claims of how much torque the 335 has. I'm sure once chipped/modded it is. But in stock form, it is no torque monster. THe feel between the two cars is different, and under 3k rpm the 335 feels punchier, but I'm not sure where you get this idea of "stock the 335 delivers the power SO much more down low". Now the one I drove was an 08, so maybe older ones are different, but I think you are exxagerating a bit. Then again, feel is subjective.
Nope, not exaggerating...but feel is subjective. Maybe the M wasn't warmed up enough when I test drove? There was a definite lack of power down low. Once up on the revs, it was gone! I'll admit this was based on 1 test drive..those who have owned both would have a better feel.
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      04-10-2009, 01:56 PM   #322
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people are still arguing about this?
This subject is destined to never end unfortunately. BTW, a 135i is slightly faster than a 335i. LOL, j/k!!
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      03-13-2014, 01:22 PM   #323
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      03-13-2014, 01:30 PM   #324
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Y u bumpin necro threads brosef?
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      03-13-2014, 01:36 PM   #325
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Y u bumpin necro threads brosef?
Cause I thought it was funny bromeo
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      03-13-2014, 03:27 PM   #326
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Cause I thought it was funny bromeo
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      03-16-2014, 11:33 AM   #327
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I would have to say NO... my friend with a 335i auto jb4, dci, and dps still could not pull me (stock dct m3) ran my other friends 135i jb4 on map 2 was much closer... he did a alpina flash for his trans now hes doors. now with a dci were about even till higher speeds where i pull...
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      03-16-2014, 02:56 PM   #328
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My dude listen.. You could make a 2000 Honda Civic which will probably cost 4,000$ faster than an M3. A old tuned mustang Gt could shit on our M3s. An M3 is bought for precision, handling, and owning an icon, not just that a 335 will never have the same amazing engine as an M3. M3s aren't for speed, if you want a german speed machine get a c63
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      03-16-2014, 03:14 PM   #329
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      03-16-2014, 03:30 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M3Owner
My dude listen.. You could make a 2000 Honda Civic which will probably cost 4,000$ faster than an M3. A old tuned mustang Gt could shit on our M3s. An M3 is bought for precision, handling, and owning an icon, not just that a 335 will never have the same amazing engine as an M3. M3s aren't for speed, if you want a german speed machine get a c63
The thread is not about what's the better car or anything like that,only a fool would disagree with you that said a fbo 335i with some e85 in the tank would dust a n/a m3 dct or mt
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