Road & Track Comparison C63-M3-RS4-ISF

Vegasmach1 · 05-13-2008, 09:55 AM

June 2008 Issue. These mags never cease to amaze me. The blantant dishonesty in this comparo is a new low. Its like they never even looked at the results of their own tests. Their subjectivity = total bias
Notice they didn't dare take the cars on a track, straight line only.
- They knock the engine and rate it the LOWEST
- They mark down a stripped sedan to nearly fully optioned cars
- They mark down the brakes but they score the highest in performance
- RS4 better gas mileage, what
I know that these rags are not worth the paper they are printed on most times but geez give the car its due.

Malbolge · 05-13-2008, 09:58 AM

i alwasy thought R&T is a POS mag, why you guys even read it? ...

ihyln · 05-13-2008, 10:00 AM

there's a reason why it's called Road & Trash

!Xoible · 05-13-2008, 10:18 AM

lol isnt that the one with "THE KING IS DEAD" when doing G37 vs. 335?

mkoesel · 05-13-2008, 10:28 AM

Ok, so what were the final results?

I think another mag did a similar test recently and the M3 finished first or second. And I'm pretty sure the M3 has both beaten and been beaten by each of these three competitors in various other head-to-head tests. I think all these cars are very closely matched and it all boils down to preference basically. The M3 is the only one with RWD and an engine like a Ferrari so that's the one I like. Other people might appreciate AWD, more torque, different styling etc.

gbb357 · 05-13-2008, 10:32 AM

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6696

Technic · 05-13-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

lol isnt that the one with "THE KING IS DEAD" when doing G37 vs. 335?

Motor Trend...

!Xoible · 05-13-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Motor Trend...

well "kill 'em all" all editors probably drive civics anyway. im never buying a car coz of a magazine review, especially if it's a merc

dawgdog · 05-13-2008, 12:08 PM

My favorite comparison is Motor Trend where they have the Merc, Audi, and BMW on a track. About 2/3 through the track the M3 is so far ahead there is a notation that says something like: "The M3 is making a farce out of this race." For combination of hadling, comfort, and speed I think a tuned 335 is the main competition.

E90330iS · 05-13-2008, 12:18 PM

If I drove a BMW and write magazines I would not rate it high so less people would buy my car when I already know it is good.

ersin · 05-13-2008, 01:05 PM

It's only a magazine article. Just go test drive the cars yourself. You'll know which one is best, who cares what the mags think. Is 0-60, or 1/4 mile that important? Then go get a vette Z06.

xixICEMANxix · 05-13-2008, 01:41 PM

which magazine was the one that said the 0-60 on the C63 was 3.9...

ersin · 05-13-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xixICEMANxix

which magazine was the one that said the 0-60 on the C63 was 3.9...

Same one that said the 0-60 for the M3 was 4.1.

Technic · 05-13-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xixICEMANxix

which magazine was the one that said the 0-60 on the C63 was 3.9...

Car and Driver...

Davinhci · 05-13-2008, 01:58 PM

POS

sayemthree · 05-13-2008, 08:38 PM

If you remove thier rating of the INTERIOR looks, which is purely personal preference - the M3 would have WON.

ersin · 05-13-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayemthree

If you remove thier rating of the INTERIOR looks, which is purely personal preference - the M3 would have WON.

What he said! If you look at the things that count, the M3 won, hands down.

gblansten · 05-13-2008, 09:15 PM

Any time a magazine disagrees with my view I attack it and I become very uncomfortable that anyone could see things differently than me. I applaud all of you for feeling the same way.

R&T is clearly a dirty rag unworthy of our attention. At least until they concord with me again in the future. At that point they will have "come around" and will have redeemed themselves.

valeram · 05-13-2008, 09:34 PM

How come the M3 engine got the lowest score when in fact it won the best engine award for 3 to 4 li category. It must be nice if there is a scientific way to judge a car.

yoyeewee · 05-14-2008, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ersin

Same one that said the 0-60 for the M3 was 4.1.

If Car and Driver clocked the M3 manual doing 4.1 seconds 0-60, does that mean the DCT will do 3.9 seconds 0-60?

geoff2010 · 05-14-2008, 06:48 AM

OK... first, I would like to say that the comparison does NOT seem biased. Everything they said about the M3 is true. It does, in fact, have pretty low torque compared to the competition. This generation of M3 clearly take its queues from the F1 world as opposed to the muscle car world. I think that is very much in line with what the M3 stands for.

As Mr Shelby once said: Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races.

The M3 is an interesting beast. You really do need to wind it up before it comes to life. The other cars (especially the merc) have TONS of down low torque which will not only improve their 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, but it will really crank up the ass-dyno.

The bottom line is that the M3 has a really special motor. Pretty much anyone can make a torque beast... and if you can make lots of torque, you can make lots of HP, not too tough... look at the vette

Not many people can make an engine which generates peak HP at 8300 RPM. It is really an amazing experience to tap redline in this car.

And to quickly go back to our roots for a quick minute here... the M3 has never been about max HP or peak torque. The M3 (at the core) is about handling before anything. Anyone who has driven this car in the twisties knows they have nailed that goal 120%!!! Perfectly balanced, nimble, quick, amazing...

If you are really most concerned with HP/Tq, 0-60, 1/4 mile, then maybe the merc or the lexus is the right car for. If you are most concerned with feeling 100% connected to the road while roaring through back country mountain roads... I'd stick with the ///M3.

umwolverine · 05-14-2008, 08:49 AM

+1

05-13-2008, 09:55 AM	#1
Vegasmach1 Private Drives: 09 C63;Mustang Mach1(2) Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 50 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2003 Mustang Mach1 [0.00]	Road & Track Comparison C63-M3-RS4-ISF June 2008 Issue. These mags never cease to amaze me. The blantant dishonesty in this comparo is a new low. Its like they never even looked at the results of their own tests. Their subjectivity = total bias Notice they didn't dare take the cars on a track, straight line only. - They knock the engine and rate it the LOWEST - They mark down a stripped sedan to nearly fully optioned cars - They mark down the brakes but they score the highest in performance - RS4 better gas mileage, what I know that these rags are not worth the paper they are printed on most times but geez give the car its due. __________________ C63 AMG Black/Black Mustang Mach1(s) Sin City
	Tweet

05-13-2008, 09:58 AM	#2
Malbolge Major General Drives: Montego E90 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pluto (which is not a planet) Posts: 5,053 iTrader: (1)	i alwasy thought R&T is a POS mag, why you guys even read it? ... __________________ E90 325i Montego Blau - 2011-2012 (SOLD) E90 320d TiAg - 2007-2011 (SOLD) E36 320i Avus Blau Msport - 2007 (SOLD)

05-13-2008, 10:28 AM	#5
mkoesel Moderator Drives: IB/PS M-DCT E93 M3 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 11,740 iTrader: (1)	Ok, so what were the final results? I think another mag did a similar test recently and the M3 finished first or second. And I'm pretty sure the M3 has both beaten and been beaten by each of these three competitors in various other head-to-head tests. I think all these cars are very closely matched and it all boils down to preference basically. The M3 is the only one with RWD and an engine like a Ferrari so that's the one I like. Other people might appreciate AWD, more torque, different styling etc. __________________ 2008 Interlagos Blue E93 M3 - M-DCT 2011 Salsa Red Jetta TDI Sportwagen - DSG

05-13-2008, 10:32 AM	#6
gbb357 Captain Drives: IS300 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 707 iTrader: (0)	Here it is. http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6696

05-13-2008, 12:08 PM	#9
dawgdog Colonel Drives: 08 e92 M3 dct Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle, Wa. Posts: 2,075 iTrader: (0)	My favorite comparison is Motor Trend where they have the Merc, Audi, and BMW on a track. About 2/3 through the track the M3 is so far ahead there is a notation that says something like: "The M3 is making a farce out of this race." For combination of hadling, comfort, and speed I think a tuned 335 is the main competition. __________________ AW on Fox Red Extended, Alum trim, ZPP, ZTP, DCT, 19" wheels, Heated front seats, HD radio, Sat radio, I-pod & usb, Premium sound, AP racing BBK, 18 Volk Racing TE 37s, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust, AST suspension

05-13-2008, 10:00 AM	#3
ihyln Banned Drives: M3post sucks Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: M3post sucks Posts: 3,386 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00] 2002 530i [0.00]	there's a reason why it's called Road & Trash

05-13-2008, 10:18 AM	#4
!Xoible Banned Drives: .... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: . Posts: 46,045 iTrader: (4) Garage List 2008 M3 [3.50] 2007 335i [4.50] 2008 528i [4.00] 2006 Infiniti - G35 ... [4.00]	lol isnt that the one with "THE KING IS DEAD" when doing G37 vs. 335?

05-13-2008, 12:18 PM	#10
E90330iS Major General Drives: E90 330i Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Redwood City, California Posts: 6,303 iTrader: (55) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	If I drove a BMW and write magazines I would not rate it high so less people would buy my car when I already know it is good. __________________ Moved to the Bay Area. Looking for meets!

05-13-2008, 01:05 PM	#11
ersin Brigadier General Drives: 08 IB E92 M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,569 iTrader: (1)	It's only a magazine article. Just go test drive the cars yourself. You'll know which one is best, who cares what the mags think. Is 0-60, or 1/4 mile that important? Then go get a vette Z06. __________________ I've been assimilated. 6MT/ZPP/18"/PS extended.

05-13-2008, 01:41 PM	#12
xixICEMANxix Level 50 Drives: 09 Jet Black M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 31 iTrader: (1)	which magazine was the one that said the 0-60 on the C63 was 3.9...

05-13-2008, 01:58 PM	#15
Davinhci Colonel Drives: 08 M3 E92 & 08 E70 X5 4.8 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 2,462 iTrader: (6) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00]	POS __________________ 08 E92 AW M3 \| HRE P40 19" \| APE Air Filter \| BMW Performance Grills \| White Side Gills \| CF Mirror Covers \| BMW Performance Pedals \| F1 Pinnacle Tint \| V1 Hardwire \| Dinan Performance Software \| Gintani Exhaust \| H&R Sports Springs \| RPI Scoops \| BMW CF Spoiler \| Challenge Diffuser \| Lux H8 V3 \| LCI Tail Lights \|

05-13-2008, 08:38 PM	#16
sayemthree Brigadier General Drives: bmw Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: usa Posts: 4,844 iTrader: (0)	If you remove thier rating of the INTERIOR looks, which is purely personal preference - the M3 would have WON.

05-13-2008, 09:15 PM	#18
gblansten Captain Obvious Drives: 2011 BMW M3 SSII/Black Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Thick ascending limb Posts: 1,255 iTrader: (0)	Any time a magazine disagrees with my view I attack it and I become very uncomfortable that anyone could see things differently than me. I applaud all of you for feeling the same way. R&T is clearly a dirty rag unworthy of our attention. At least until they concord with me again in the future. At that point they will have "come around" and will have redeemed themselves.

05-13-2008, 09:34 PM	#19
valeram Major Drives: E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dublin, OH Posts: 1,276 iTrader: (0)	How come the M3 engine got the lowest score when in fact it won the best engine award for 3 to 4 li category. It must be nice if there is a scientific way to judge a car.

05-14-2008, 06:48 AM	#21
geoff2010 Autobot Support Team Drives: 08 e92 ///M3 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 348 iTrader: (0)	OK... first, I would like to say that the comparison does NOT seem biased. Everything they said about the M3 is true. It does, in fact, have pretty low torque compared to the competition. This generation of M3 clearly take its queues from the F1 world as opposed to the muscle car world. I think that is very much in line with what the M3 stands for. As Mr Shelby once said: Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races. The M3 is an interesting beast. You really do need to wind it up before it comes to life. The other cars (especially the merc) have TONS of down low torque which will not only improve their 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, but it will really crank up the ass-dyno. The bottom line is that the M3 has a really special motor. Pretty much anyone can make a torque beast... and if you can make lots of torque, you can make lots of HP, not too tough... look at the vette Not many people can make an engine which generates peak HP at 8300 RPM. It is really an amazing experience to tap redline in this car. And to quickly go back to our roots for a quick minute here... the M3 has never been about max HP or peak torque. The M3 (at the core) is about handling before anything. Anyone who has driven this car in the twisties knows they have nailed that goal 120%!!! Perfectly balanced, nimble, quick, amazing... If you are really most concerned with HP/Tq, 0-60, 1/4 mile, then maybe the merc or the lexus is the right car for. If you are most concerned with feeling 100% connected to the road while roaring through back country mountain roads... I'd stick with the ///M3. __________________ 2008 e92 M3 - 6MT - Space Gray + Fox Red 2009 e90 335i - Loaded 2006 X3 - Lame (sits in the driveway)

05-14-2008, 08:49 AM	#22
umwolverine Second Lieutenant Drives: 2008 Jerez M3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 274 iTrader: (0)	+1 __________________

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