Obama's chances in the general...

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Whether you resent being called something is unimportant to me. The US does not have a planned economy and the economy is not managed from Washington.

No one in Washington decides which companies will be profitable and which ones will not, who will be hired or fired, who will invest in what company, etc... It simply does not happen that way.

We do not publish 5 year plans or set industrial policy. The President and his administration can have real impact through tax, monetary, and regulatory policy but that is the extent of it.

that's why i didnt wanna discuss this with u, coz ur on crack obviously. it's good shit though, u mind sending me some? is that the same crack bush was hooked on back in the day?

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

that's why i didnt wanna discuss this with u, coz ur on crack obviously. it's good shit though, u mind sending me some? is that the same crack bush was hooked on back in the day?

I must assume you are incapable of engaging in this discussion in a thoughtful manner with intelligence, candor, and good will so I will wish you a good day.

Feel free to wallow in your ignorance.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by ganeil

I must assume you are incapable of engaging in this discussion in a thoughtful manner with intelligence, candor, and good will so I will wish you a good day.

Feel free to wallow in your ignorance.

yes, im the redneck. i'll wallow in my ignorance. now this is about obama, take ur bush defense shit somewhere else. im sick of hearing the same shit for 8 years now

[ATG]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Whether you resent being called something is unimportant to me. The US does not have a planned economy and the economy is not managed from Washington.

No one in Washington decides which companies will be profitable and which ones will not, who will be hired or fired, who will invest in what company, etc... It simply does not happen that way.

We do not publish 5 year plans or set industrial policy. The President and his administration can have real impact through tax, monetary, and regulatory policy but that is the extent of it.

Good tutorial.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

yes, im the redneck. i'll wallow in my ignorance. now this is about obama, take ur bush defense shit somewhere else. im sick of hearing the same shit for 8 years now

How is an explanation of basic American governance a defense of Bush? This is not an issue of Bush or Obama or anyone else, no American President manages the economy. He is simply not empowered to do so.

Whether you are a redneck or not, I cannot say.

[lyndon_h]

So, back on topic. TC, you realize that Bill Clinton won the presidency with 88% of the black vote and about 39% of the white vote, right?

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by lyndon_h

So, back on topic. TC, you realize that Bill Clinton won the presidency with 88% of the black vote and about 39% of the white vote, right?

40% of the white vote
+90% of the black vote
+50% of the latino vote
----------------------
more than 50% of the popular vote

I really think McCain is toast. The Republicans have one hope, and thats to use fear tactics. McCain is simply not the politician he was 8 or even 4 years ago. He has given too much of himself in order to be the Republican nominee. Furthermore, i dont think McCain is witty enough to debate Obama or H.Clinton. This is why he asked Obama to debate in a town hall setting (it is less confrontational). McCain has made some serious and numerous mis-speaks over the last month or so. Now that the Democratic race is ending, hes going to have to be more careful in what he says because he will be called on it.

If you're reading this, you might think that i really dislike McCain. Its partly true. I used to REALLY respect him for standing for the things that he believes, but he has sold out.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by flyinb501

I am not a socialist. You are. I do not expect the government to take care of me and solve all my problems. You do. I believe in lower taxes, limited government, and more individual responsibility. You do not. I believe that higher taxes have a negative effect on the economy.

I think if some people spent less time whining and more time working they would be a lot better off.

You see, that is your issue -- you have heard of these terms without understanding them. You believe socialis system that helps take care of the people (and mainly helps the low/middle class) is a bad thing, again, without understanding the basics. Again, typical of the republican that only cares about the rich, the rest is not important.

I am not asking gov't to rule my life and finances, but would definitely expect them to have some responsiblilities with the basics. We're the only developed country with no healthcare -- does not affect you while employed or living off your parents, but you realize how cruel it is once you experience unemployment...

As for your last statement -- there will never be enough jobs to employ everyone and type of jobs that can fit everyone. For example, a waiter at local Olive Garden is working his/her ass off, but cannot afford medical coverage. There are people out there still working for a min wage, how can they afford to go to doctor...or education for their families?

Your view is purely based on your social status that most likely does not apply to the vast majority of people in this country...

[flyinb501]

[quote=dr325i;2664271]You see, that is your issue -- you have heard of these terms without understanding them. You believe socialis system that helps take care of the people (and mainly helps the low/middle class) is a bad thing, again, without understanding the basics. Again, typical of the republican that only cares about the rich, the rest is not important.

I am not asking gov't to rule my life and finances, but would definitely expect them to have some responsiblilities with the basics. We're the only developed country with no healthcare -- does not affect you while employed or living off your parents, but you realize how cruel it is once you experience unemployment...

[quote]


No I do not believe in redistribution of wealth, and I would consider myself middle class. So why would I suffer financially from these social systems if I am middle class? If what you say is true, I would stand to benefit.

In response to your healthcare statements, I had to provide my own health care during my last two years of college, and it was not that expensive at all. I now participate in a high deductible health plan through my employer, which means I basically pay for all of my own healthcare out of my own pocket. So please quit with your assumptions.

[gonzo]

^ Yup.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by flyinb501

No I do not believe in redistribution of wealth, and I would consider myself middle class. So why would I suffer financially from these social systems if I am middle class? If what you say is true, I would stand to benefit.

In response to your healthcare statements, I had to provide my own health care during my last two years of college, and it was not that expensive at all. I now participate in a high deductible health plan through my employer, which means I basically pay for all of my own healthcare out of my own pocket. So please quit with your assumptions.

What a stupid and EGOISTIC response. I, I , I... Do you really believe that the majority (a BIG majority) of people in this country is like YOU, and can afford what you can???
Do you really believe that $6k MRI, $15+k pregnancy, baby check-ups, $200 anti-biotics, $300/per vaccine for kids, and so on is "inexpensive" for the family of 4 that lives on $50k (middle class)???

AGAIN, how would you suffer socially/financially if we assume that the taxes would go up by a small amount??? As compared to a 400% gas increase, huge % of food increase, huge amount of energy increases that we've experienced during the "low tax" 8 years???

Also, do a little research that will show you that the average salaried raise last year was less than 4%, and inflation (including food + energy) was at least double that. So, on average, after inflation, Americans are making less than last year, and all that (most of it) indeed is because of the mad spending of the Government...

[Couch]

Originally Posted by dr325i

What a stupid and EGOISTIC response. I, I , I... Do you really believe that the majority (a BIG majority) of people in this country is like YOU, and can afford what you can???
Do you really believe that $6k MRI, $15+k pregnancy, baby check-ups, $200 anti-biotics, $300/per vaccine for kids, and so on is "inexpensive" for the family of 4 that lives on $50k (middle class)???

AGAIN, how would you suffer socially/financially if we assume that the taxes would go up by a small amount??? As compared to a 400% gas increase, huge % of food increase, huge amount of energy increases that we've experienced during the "low tax" 8 years???

Also, do a little research that will show you that the average salaried raise last year was less than 4%, and inflation (including food + energy) was at least double that. So, on average, after inflation, Americans are making less than last year, and all that (most of it) indeed is because of the mad spending of the Government...

Not going to neccesarily disagree with what you said. However, we need to quit giving money to people every month who refuse to work, or half ass the "work" they do. The welfare system is plagued dramatically.

I have several friends in contruction who use employment offices who hire and send out people that are in the lower rungs of the financial scale. They are asked to do something simple like sweep a concrete slab. They don't do it. They half-ass the job with one arm, or do something else to avoid working. Then ask for their pay before the day/week is over.

We need to put an end to giving out money for nothing. As well as put limits on the type of foods that can be bought on food stamps. No one should be buying steaks and beer, only necessities.

[flyinb501]

Originally Posted by dr325i

What a stupid and EGOISTIC response. I, I , I... Do you really believe that the majority (a BIG majority) of people in this country is like YOU, and can afford what you can???
Do you really believe that $6k MRI, $15+k pregnancy, baby check-ups, $200 anti-biotics, $300/per vaccine for kids, and so on is "inexpensive" for the family of 4 that lives on $50k (middle class)???

AGAIN, how would you suffer socially/financially if we assume that the taxes would go up by a small amount??? As compared to a 400% gas increase, huge % of food increase, huge amount of energy increases that we've experienced during the "low tax" 8 years???

Also, do a little research that will show you that the average salaried raise last year was less than 4%, and inflation (including food + energy) was at least double that. So, on average, after inflation, Americans are making less than last year, and all that (most of it) indeed is because of the mad spending of the Government...

I was merely defending myself and using it as an example. You accused me of not paying for my own healthcare. During this time I had an MRI also. That is what health insurance for! I don't even know why I respond to you...

This "400% gas increase, huge % of food increase, huge amount of energy increases" you speak of is due to democratic policies. These increases will get worse under a democratic president. You dems are the ones that will not allow us to become energy independant by drilling and refining our own oil. Instead you want to use food (corn) for gasoline further increasing food and gas prices. You greenies are at fault for all these price increases.

I don't need to do any research about inflation. I am one of these "poor souls" that received less than a 4% raise last year, but I'm not going to sit here and cry about. Whoops sorry if my huge ego surfaced in another post...

[lyndon_h]

The welfare system eats money, but it is not the problem as many Republican fear-mongers would have you believe. The war is problem. There will always be those less fortunate and those who need help. There will also be those who abuse the system. But the majority of the people will not. I'm sure that you guys heard that it is estimated that almost 10% of the population will be on some form of welfare in the next couple of years. Is this because people have all of a sudden become lazier during the last 8 years, or is it because the economy is tanking?

[lem144]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

im not worried about his chances in winning. im worried about the chances of him being shot next day

This isn't even close to being funny. I dislike Hillary and McCain the same, but I wouldn't joke about their own lives.

[lem144]

Originally Posted by flyinb501

This "400% gas increase, huge % of food increase, huge amount of energy increases" you speak of is due to democratic policies. These increases will get worse under a democratic president. You dems are the ones that will not allow us to become energy independant by drilling and refining our own oil. Instead you want to use food (corn) for gasoline further increasing food and gas prices. You greenies are at fault for all these price increases.

It's not a Dem problem. Show me one Republican who wants another oil refinery in the own BACK YARD. All politics is local and you can preach refining our own oil until it comes time to doing it in you neighborhood. It's extremely hard to get those things, including power plants, approved.

It's not a liberal or conservative problem. It's a pollution problem that no one wants. It should be expensive - if you've had a basic economics course you'd know that externalities need to be accounted for, and energy produces expensive externalities. It's about time Americans had to pay for our actions.

[lem144]

Originally Posted by Couch

I have several friends in contruction who use employment offices who hire and send out people that are in the lower rungs of the financial scale. They are asked to do something simple like sweep a concrete slab. They don't do it. They half-ass the job with one arm, or do something else to avoid working. Then ask for their pay before the day/week is over.

We need to put an end to giving out money for nothing. As well as put limits on the type of foods that can be bought on food stamps. No one should be buying steaks and beer, only necessities.

Two things: If you don't pay people a good wage you won't get a quality workforce. On an equal measure, there are plenty of people who bust their ass for minimum wage to put food on their family's plate. You can't lump all low income earners into one group - that's simply being extremely biased.

Second, you can't buy beer with foodstamps - there are limits on what can be purchased.

[fedinand]

Originally Posted by lem144

Second, you can't buy beer with foodstamps - there are limits on what can be purchased.

It is sad - people are so far removed from what it is like to be the working poor, that comments like this (not yours - what you are responding to) and thinking welfare = ghetto (when most reciepient are white people), show how easy it is to mix in your bias and prejudices and then think it is an accurate opinion.

[fedinand]

Originally Posted by lem144

This isn't even close to being funny. I dislike Hillary and McCain the same, but I wouldn't joke about their own lives.

Search for Huchabee's little "pointing a gun at Obama" joke - the Repubs are showing their colors again...and I agree with you - not funny at all. I have friends who have older relatives who voted for Barack, and their biggest fear is this.

[lem144]

Originally Posted by fedinand

Search for Huchabee's little "pointing a gun at Obama" joke - the Repubs are showing their colors again...and I agree with you - not funny at all. I have friends who have older relatives who voted for Barack, and their biggest fear is this.

Oh I saw it and thought it was completely vile. I'm sure the NRA people were laughing their asses off. It's really sad how low-class Americans can be. Just as bad or worse than those we seem to despise overseas.

Patriotism in quotes only. Flag pins. What a disgrace.

I did see Huckster apologize, but still. Thinking that immediately just goes to show how close it is to people's true feelings. You can make jokes all you want, but off-the-cuff remarks show real feelings. What is it they say about gaffes? They reveal true feelings?

[Couch]

Originally Posted by lem144

Two things: If you don't pay people a good wage you won't get a quality workforce. On an equal measure, there are plenty of people who bust their ass for minimum wage to put food on their family's plate. You can't lump all low income earners into one group - that's simply being extremely biased.

Second, you can't buy beer with foodstamps - there are limits on what can be purchased.

Well, I've seen it with my own eyes. Beer was scanned, food stamps were signed and handed to the cashier. No cash exchanged hands. So obviously the cashier fucked up. That's why I thought you could.

Not that I disagree with the "working wage" being low, but work ethic sucks. We all have to start out somewhere, the only way to get noticed and move up is to bust your ass and show you're proud to have a job.

And my parents never had it easy. My dad had to get a second job working nights painting buildings to put diapers on my ass and food on the table. He finally reached a point where he didn't have to.

I still stand by the point that the system is abused, needs reform, and that too many people expect hand outs. A friend of mine in college abused the unemployment system himself. Worse, his dad told him how to do it. And they weren't in hurt for money. It pissed me off. But he wound up distancing himself from all of us anyway and haven't heard from him in years.

There is a fine line somewhere to bring both sides (libs and conservs) together. Unforunately that will never be found because each side is too concerned with making sure their side has more power.

[Couch]

Originally Posted by fedinand

It is sad - people are so far removed from what it is like to be the working poor, that comments like this (not yours - what you are responding to) and thinking welfare = ghetto (when most reciepient are white people), show how easy it is to mix in your bias and prejudices and then think it is an accurate opinion.

That's funny. I never ever said anything about white, black, yellow, purple. Why does race keep coming up, it's not an issue. Not for me anyway. Yet you make an attempt to say I was talking about a certain race.