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      05-06-2008, 12:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
Great write up! Thanks Swamp!

Your comments about the steering echo mine after driving Navnurs's M3 the other day. Not surprising considering we are both used to E36 M3's!

Would you guess the clunk you hear occasionally is the aggressive LSD?

Not happy to hear about the leather issues.... I am getting the cloth/leather seats...maybe I wont have this problem. I wish I could forgo leather after fighting the uphill battle with my E36.

I am looking forward to a get together with you and Kurtt....hopefully I will have mine by then.

Oh, and where are my pics????....hahaha Jk

Jason
Steering is absolutely fine. A bunch of hype/BS was all the alleged steering "issue" was.

I would like to get together with both you guys but life is still beyond hectic. Just dropped off the E36 M3 for a thorough detail to rescue it from a couple of really hard years of cosmetic "abuse". Too much using it as a Home Depot picker-upper instead of nice sports sedan. Even though you are kidding I am not about my adherence to our bet. I am going to "wear" some stickers on the E36! But really, I don't know where to get them.

Cheers.
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      05-06-2008, 12:23 AM   #24
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Swamp we need some pics!
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      05-06-2008, 12:48 AM   #25
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I'm excited to hear that all the modes are useful for something, unlike in SMG II where everyone was in S5 all the time. Great review Swamp, can't wait for mine.
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      05-06-2008, 12:59 AM   #26
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Wonderful and thorough review swamp! Glad you finally got your car. Looking forward to more of your keen observations about the car. This is great stuff - things we never hear in the magazines. Enjoy and -- pics soon!
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      05-06-2008, 01:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Yes, +1 nice to find common ground and agree. S3 is great, period.

The delay is absolutely not a big deal. It sounded like is absolutely was during Lucids GTI test drive but here it is so short and the overall responsiveness is so good it is almost a non-issues. I hope I am making that clear to folks. I would like to know if the delay is as good as the new Scuderia SMG box though.... That thing is amazing, including from what I can tell in vids - this "delay".

swamp,

I know we haven't always see eye to eye but I can honestly say that my comments are always based on experience and are never there to cause arguments or heated debates, they are to inform and advise. That my sole purpose on the site .

Now this question is not to start are argument, it's only a curiosity on my part.

After our heated debates on the jerk/surge, now that you have sampled both setup of the transmission, the with and without do you still feel that the surge is to add to the acceleration or added to make a definite link to SMG as was my original thinking. Either way there is no harm done, if you feel not then we are all still friends and if you do then at least our opinions on the technology are similar in that it a giant leap forward with a harking to the past for old time sake.
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      05-06-2008, 01:48 AM   #28
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By the way G-TECH/Pro is utterly useless for determining M-DCT shift times. They are simply too fast. I basically knew this before some basic testing tonight but now have full confirmation.
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      05-06-2008, 01:54 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I would like to know if the delay is as good as the new Scuderia SMG box though.... That thing is amazing, including from what I can tell in vids - this "delay".
From experience the delay on the Ferrari is less but not by much I reckon, my comments are from the time of owning the DSG and the belief that M-DCT has improved on the VW version. I will say that I reckon DSG shifts way quicker than the F1 box, with the Ferrari you still got a slight jerk on shift that was still quite noticeable.
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      05-06-2008, 02:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
swamp,

I know we haven't always see eye to eye but I can honestly say that my comments are always based on experience and are never there to cause arguments or heated debates, they are to inform and advise. That my sole purpose on the site .

Now this question is not to start are argument, it's only a curiosity on my part.

After our heated debates on the jerk/surge, now that you have sampled both setup of the transmission, the with and without do you still feel that the surge is to add to the acceleration or added to make a definite link to SMG as was my original thinking. Either way there is no harm done, if you feel not then we are all still friends and if you do then at least our opinions on the technology are similar in that it a giant leap forward with a harking to the past for old time sake.
I never thought you engaged in debate for fun or to be difficult. Many very likely think those same things about me. Oh well...

The funny thing here is your emphasis on seat time and sampling the thing IRL. Seat time really has almost nothing to do with it. The entire tranny is really just about exactly as I expected given my limited sampling of SMG and DSG. Funny thing about math/physics/extrapolation/induction... they typically work.

As you can see from my immediately preceding post I am already trying to do some shift time measurements. I am not entirely sure that the surge effect is turned on/off above/below S3. It may be a smoother function. As well I still stick to my original contention that the surge has been engineered into the system for multiple purposes including small performance benefits and perception benefits. If you call perception benefits a "link to SMG" then I can agree with that as one thing that was achieved.

Do recall my long standing thoughts on your position. It is essentially unverifiable as it demands direct access to the minds and intentions (or documents) of BMW engineers or designers. No matter how much testing is done on the tranny we will almost for sure never know WHY BMW did or did not do something. We can only describe it, test it and quantify it. The rest is basically speculation.

Lastly I expect to find many more differences among the various modes post break in. The point being is that S4 and S5 are very likely to be different in ways other than the level of surge and S1-S3 will also have disimilarities well beyond their lower level of (or complete lack of) surge.
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      05-06-2008, 02:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
From experience the delay on the Ferrari is less but not by much I reckon, my comments are from the time of owning the DSG and the belief that M-DCT has improved on the VW version. I will say that I reckon DSG shifts way quicker than the F1 box, with the Ferrari you still got a slight jerk on shift that was still quite noticeable.
Your experience in the SCUDERIA???

Do note that although Ferrari calls the transmission in the Scuderia an "F1" transmission it is F1.6 and unique to the Scuderia. It bears almost nothing in common with previous Ferrari F1 automated manuals such as the ones in the F430, F360, F355, etc.

The jerk of the Scuderia has been described by others as more than DSG but quite a bit less than BMW SMG II or III.
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      05-06-2008, 03:28 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Your experience in the SCUDERIA???

Do note that although Ferrari calls the transmission in the Scuderia an "F1" transmission it is F1.6 and unique to the Scuderia. It bears almost nothing in common with previous Ferrari F1 automated manuals such as the ones in the F430, F360, F355, etc.

The jerk of the Scuderia has been described by others as more than DSG but quite a bit less than BMW SMG II or III.
You're right I meant F430 with F1 and not the Scuderia. I believe it drops the shift time to 60ms from 80ms for the normal car, I can't believe the actual experience will be dissimilar in that you will still feel the shift as a mechanical thing unlike DCT which you don't.

On the surge in the M-DCT, I was only interested in your opinion after living with it and finally being able to experience the thing in person instead of the theory on how it would be. I know I found when I got mine (DSG) those first weeks had me in wonder as to how good the thing was and why had no one developed it before. Maybe the M3's added excitement from the engine and it's wider rev range will prove to be the factor that makes the use of the auto mode redundant unlike how I found the DSG in the Golf, though from everything I have read, the auto mode leads me to believe that it's this above everything else that will make this such a success, especially in the mainly automatic US market.

Over there more than anywhere it may prove to be the best specced option to have for resale.

Health to enjoy and remember to keep us posted on things when the rev limit is lifted.
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      05-06-2008, 08:55 AM   #33
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Great review. Thanks for taking the time to write up. I do have a question about the GP thunder bulbs. I thought you only need one H8 bulb for each headlight. what is the purpose of the H3 bulb? Thanks.
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      05-06-2008, 09:25 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
...I have noticed a small and non repeatable take off anomaly. When taking off aggressively (but not to the point of tire spin, WOT or >5500 rpm) if you decide before 2nd gear that you are too heavy on the gas and let off quickly you can get a small instability of jerking back and forth. Your body/leg momentum actually alternates the throttle creating a feedback system. This absolutely can happen in a MT as well and is probably just a matter of adjusting your technique to deal with this somewhat rare situation...
swamp:

I enjoyed reading your review and appreciate you taking the time to share it.

As far as the above-captioned anomaly, The same can be said of the MT, especially with the "sport-plus" throttle mapping. As you mentioned, all it takes is an adjustment of the driver's technique. You described the phenomenon perfectly.

Are you going to let us see a photo or two of your baby?
...or taking the southlight route?
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      05-06-2008, 09:41 AM   #35
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Are you going to let us see a photo or two of your baby?
...or taking the southlight route?
South doesn't have an M car.

He is Mister M, the head of M-Division.
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      05-06-2008, 10:18 AM   #36
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That "anomaly" with the back-and-forth used to happen to me all the time in my SMG until I realized my foot position on the pedal was causing it. I think the throttle computer gets a bit confused if your foot backs off the throttle quickly as you accelerate.
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      05-06-2008, 10:59 AM   #37
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great review
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      05-06-2008, 11:12 AM   #38
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Thanks for the review.
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      05-06-2008, 11:19 AM   #39
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Anybody mentioned my name?
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Again congrats, swamp! you love the car!


Best regards, south
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      05-06-2008, 12:39 PM   #40
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Anybody mentioned my name?
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Again congrats, swamp! you love the car!


Best regards, south
South,

I either forgot or don't know but what colour combination did you get for your M3?
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      05-06-2008, 12:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavM3 View Post
Great review. Thanks for taking the time to write up. I do have a question about the GP thunder bulbs. I thought you only need one H8 bulb for each headlight. what is the purpose of the H3 bulb? Thanks.
One bulb powers the angel eye rings and one the cornering lamps. See this: http://bmwfans.info/original/E92/Cou...3/ill-63_0961/
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      05-06-2008, 12:41 PM   #42
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Quote:
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Are you going to let us see a photo or two of your baby? ...or taking the southlight route?
Nope (on the second question), clear bra tomorrow, detail soon after then pics to follow. Personally I don't really see the excitement of seeing pictures of other peoples cars. I did for the first couple private cars around but not at all at this point. Nonetheless, I know folks like to share each others excitement and this is one simple way to do it.
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      05-06-2008, 12:45 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nope (on the second question), clear bra tomorrow, detail soon after then pics to follow. Personally I don't really see the excitement of seeing pictures of other peoples cars. I did for the first couple private cars around but not at all at this point. Nonetheless, I know folks like to share each others excitement and this is one simple way to do it.
yo if u decide to do it in OC let me know if u need me to drop u off anywhere. i live where u work, and tintplus is where i work, so we can figure out something if u need it. g'luck
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      05-06-2008, 01:00 PM   #44
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Quote:
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South,

I either forgot or don't know but what colour combination did you get for your M3?
I took the Epacy route.


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