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      04-28-2008, 08:30 PM   #23
Year's_End
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
And there is a NEED to drive a 300hp 4 seat coupe?
Nice counter, but in defence of the 335i, it gets relatively good gas mileage if driven properly. It's not too difficult to muster up a solid 22mpg in this thing.
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      04-28-2008, 08:35 PM   #24
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Phew, good thing i have a company gas card...


it's usually 60 bucks to fill up around here...
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      04-28-2008, 08:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
Nice counter, but in defence of the 335i, it gets relatively good gas mileage if driven properly. It's not too difficult to muster up a solid 22mpg in this thing.
The things a 335i does that a Corolla doesn't are rarely (read never) needed, they are a nice to have.

The things an SUV offers can be necessities.
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      04-28-2008, 08:45 PM   #26
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True, but those qualities are often never utilized by many owners. I think one of the points M3This was trying to make was that many people don't need SUVs (again, you can make the same statement about us and our unnecessary 230/300hp e9X's, but the effects in terms of economy aren't as extreme).

Sure, some people need SUVs, and so be it. But there are others that have them just for the sake of having a large-ass vehicle on the road which is detrimental to the environment and others on the road.
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      04-28-2008, 09:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
True, but those qualities are often never utilized by many owners. I think one of the points M3This was trying to make was that many people don't need SUVs (again, you can make the same statement about us and our unnecessary 230/300hp e9X's, but the effects in terms of economy aren't as extreme).

Sure, some people need SUVs, and so be it. But there are others that have them just for the sake of having a large-ass vehicle on the road which is detrimental to the environment and others on the road.
My point is you cannot and should not judge whether or not people need the cars they choose to drive. There are any number of reasons people make the car buying decisions they do and no one but they are in a position to evaluate the relative merits of that decision.

I am not sure your point about the relative merits of the SUV compared to our BMW's is valid. According to the EPA numbers a 4wd Yukon averages 16mpg compared with a Honda Odyssey's 20mpg. The difference between the 335i and the Corolla is a more extreme 20/31mpg.
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      04-28-2008, 09:45 PM   #28
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Well I've seen Australia and Europe do just fine with wagons. It was a HUGE relief to drive on those roads without a lumbering SUV obscuring my vision. Really, it was heaven without them on the road.

But hey, that's just me. I personally am not a fan of SUVs.
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      04-28-2008, 10:03 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
Nice counter, but in defence of the 335i, it gets relatively good gas mileage if driven properly. It's not too difficult to muster up a solid 22mpg in this thing.
I'm sorry, but a 335 is definitely something not necessary.

22mpg is a lot of fuel.

Now, this discussion on using fuel is very double standard, as the fuel you use for your car is almost nothing compared with what you use indirectly.
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      04-28-2008, 10:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
Well I've seen Australia and Europe do just fine with wagons. It was a HUGE relief to drive on those roads without a lumbering SUV obscuring my vision. Really, it was heaven without them on the road.

But hey, that's just me. I personally am not a fan of SUVs.
That's what I really hate.... they block all the vision.

This is a problem I have every day... specially because here in Florida everybody tints their windows so visibility with one in front is zero.
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      04-28-2008, 10:06 PM   #31
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I do not believe a modern wagon is comparable to an SUV. Do any wagons available today seat more than 5 and have storage space?

No one is forcing you to buy an SUV just as no one is preventing you from buying a 300hp 4 passenger coupe. That is what makes life interesting.
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      04-28-2008, 10:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
That's what I really hate.... they block all the vision.

This is a problem I have every day... specially because here in Florida everybody tints their windows so visibility with one in front is zero.
I know, right?
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      04-28-2008, 10:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseGuy View Post
The "space" excuse was just an example, but the whole point of my post was that people not complaining because it is expensive. They're complaining because it BECAME expensive all of the sudden.
And WHY it got expensive.....

I just hope that vehicles moved by H are available soon....

I will be laughing so much...
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      04-28-2008, 10:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
I know, right?
Ok.. typical scenario.

Waiting for a left turn in an intersection.... yield with green light.

From the opposite side, a big SUV wants to do the same thing, so while he/she waits in the left lane, his/her big car is blocking your vision...

Results... wait until the SOB turns....
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      04-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #35
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Worst possible situation!^
Happens to me all the time in the morning...so annoying...
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      04-28-2008, 11:40 PM   #36
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im glad gas prices are escalating and continue to do so. Will rid us from all the so called 'ballers' in my area. Just like housing costs and how everybody is foreclosing now. The banks were offering everybody loans, even people who really did not qualify. Now its time to cleanse ourselves of all the fake want to be home buyers who bought more than they could with interest only loans!!

I love foreclosures!!

Seriously though, its a cleansing process...the only one's affected are those on teh borderline
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      04-28-2008, 11:57 PM   #37
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$4.19 at shell today for v-power 91. . . . $64 for the full tank.
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      04-29-2008, 12:02 AM   #38
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      04-29-2008, 12:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post
I don't often wade into this debate...but when I read this, I just had to. This is the most ignorant comment I have ever come across. Soldiers are dying because of the arrogance and ignorance that started a war that should have never been started to begin with. And then you have the gall to say that you deserve cheap oil as result. I have a lot of american friends and co-workers that are great people...but unfortunately there's people like you that give the rest of the world a reason to hate americans.
regardless dude... the fact is we are in war for the fucking oil, yet our gas prices suck.... im no pro war or anything, it's a fact it happened, now i want cheaper gas!!!
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      04-29-2008, 04:28 AM   #40
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i just paid 60 bucks to fill my tank.
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      04-29-2008, 06:56 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
And WHY it got expensive.....

I just hope that vehicles moved by H are available soon....

I will be laughing so much...
Ummmm.....I'll be laughing at all the stupid tree huggers if we ever move to Hydrogen powered vehicles.

Where do you get Hydrogen on Earth? You have to electrolyze water. That means you dissolve a catalyst in the water, and then pass electricity through it.

Where do we get electricity in this country? We burn coal for well over 70% of the nations electrical needs. I'll break the math down to very simple results - you'll put 3-4 times as much CO2 in the air with an "H" powered vehicle, per mile, as you would with gasoline.

Why might you ask? Becuase the electrolysis of water is horribly inefficient. By the time you extract the energy back out of the fuel cell (that's where the hydrogen goes), you are netting around 15% of the available energy in the coal. By alternative, when you burn gasoline, you are netting well over 60% of the available energy (all speaking isentropically, of course).

Now consider the ramifications of putting so much water vapor (that's the exhaust of a fuel cell) into the atmosphere. It is THE best gassious insulator in the atmosphere. It has over 20 times the thermal capacitance of CO2.


Hydrogen powered vehicles are the worst fucking idea anyone ever dreamed of, at least until we generate ALL of our electricity from wind and sun.



For all of you that don't like the price of gas (and I am one), what are you doing to address the issues? I'm talking about consumption. A personal crusade against SUV's is great, go for it if it makes you feel better. I'll be buying one soon to go with my pickup truck in the garage. I have my reasons.

If you really want to make a difference on the consumption side, start talking to your congressmen (or women) about the subsidies for gas that other countries pick up for their people. Start with China and the middle east. I don't have the latest figures handy, but at last look China was subsidizing something over 50% of the cost of gas at the pump for its people. Who says communism doesn't work?(kidding, it sucks). Same in Iran. Chinas consumption of gasoline has EXPLODED over the last 10 years. That in and of itself is enough to upset the delicate balance of supply and demand. When supplies are running at capacity (they are) and demand bumps just a bit, you can see an enormous movement in prices. This current scenario is being reviewed in economics classes all over the world.

When the whole world starts realizing the true cost of gas, its value and limited supply, things will come back into balance.


I wonder what internet chat forums would have looked like during the 1970's gas crisis? Hmmmm......
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      04-29-2008, 12:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I do not believe a modern wagon is comparable to an SUV. Do any wagons available today seat more than 5 and have storage space?

No one is forcing you to buy an SUV just as no one is preventing you from buying a 300hp 4 passenger coupe. That is what makes life interesting.
right .... and a chevy taho can fit more then 5 in it and carry luggage? I think not. Most of them dont have 3rd row seating, and if they do you cant put shit in the back. (im talking about the stand. size ones not the suburban ones). I bet you money I can fit 5 people and the same luggage in a A6 Avant.

Im not on a personal crusade against SUVs ... I just think its retarded that 90%+ of people that buy them never use them for their intended purpose.
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      04-29-2008, 12:18 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
So someone who has an occasional need for an SUV should buy a second car for the other times?
No its called buying a car that practical for the 90% of the time you need it and rent a truck from UHAL the 5 days a year you need one. Not only will it be cheaper (you will save money in gas through out the year), but its more efficient.
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      04-29-2008, 12:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFan View Post
If you really want to make a difference on the consumption side, start talking to your congressmen (or women) about the subsidies for gas that other countries pick up for their people. Start with China and the middle east. I don't have the latest figures handy, but at last look China was subsidizing something over 50% of the cost of gas at the pump for its people. Who says communism doesn't work?(kidding, it sucks). Same in Iran. Chinas consumption of gasoline has EXPLODED over the last 10 years. That in and of itself is enough to upset the delicate balance of supply and demand. When supplies are running at capacity (they are) and demand bumps just a bit, you can see an enormous movement in prices. This current scenario is being reviewed in economics classes all over the world.

When the whole world starts realizing the true cost of gas, its value and limited supply, things will come back into balance.


I wonder what internet chat forums would have looked like during the 1970's gas crisis? Hmmmm......

I agree with you on the whole supply and demand and economic out look. However I dont agree about talking to our government about subsidizing gas more then they do. China and the Middle East do it since oil if being drilled there and they are profiting for oil sales. Here in the U.S. our government is holding back on drilling in Alaska (its a poker play IMO as when supply gets low we will the the last ones left with oil). I also think subsidizing will allow our arrogance as Americans to continue to go. Anyone that steps out side of our borders and talks with anyone over seas will make you wake up to how arrogant we are.
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