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      05-07-2008, 06:46 PM   #23
dr335is
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Originally Posted by ///Metak View Post
exactly my point. "
///Metak, ne traci vreme sa tupavim vojnikom...

Of coiurse it will not happen because like attacking Iraq (another sovereign country) without the UN approval and SC approval and getting around Geneva convention is only allowed to the most powerful...
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      05-08-2008, 04:03 PM   #24
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Blaming President Bush for the current economic difficulties is as insane as thanking Clinton for the boom in the late 90s. They both aren't responsible.

The current problem is almost entirely due to stupid consumers who signed mortgages they knowingly couldn't afford, coupled with the greed of lenders and investment banks who got made massive amounts of cash off of each loan that was processed.

What really troubles me is the massive amount of anti-American sentiment I see all over the place these days. Way too many people have no appreciation for this country and what it offers them. They have no respect for the military and their sole plan is to simply keep blaming others for their lot in life.
Personally I don't think most people would buy a house with a mortgage that they know they can't afford. It's clear to me that mortage companys and brokers were actively selling these mortgages to people and misleading them about the terms to fatten their own wallets.

As for anti-American sentiment I disagree with you. I don't notice that people are anti-American at all. People LOVE THIS COUNTRY but they're fed up with the lies, the arrogance and the total incompetence of the current administration. What you're noticing is not anti-Americanism, it's Bush fatique combined with fatigue of Republican dogma from the extreme right.

Also why is it that people like you can't separate the idea of people hating the war from the idea of people not supporting our troops? You can ABSOLUTELY HATE THE WAR and yet BE SUPPORTIVE OF OUR TROOPS. I find this to absolutely be the case with most people. We love the troops, hate the war.

You sound ... bitter.
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      05-08-2008, 04:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
///Metak, ne traci vreme sa tupavim vojnikom...

Of coiurse it will not happen because like attacking Iraq (another sovereign country) without the UN approval and SC approval and getting around Geneva convention is only allowed to the most powerful...
+1000
Sdravo Zivo Brate!
-pavle
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      05-08-2008, 04:59 PM   #26
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Of coiurse it will not happen because like attacking Iraq (another sovereign country) without the UN approval and SC approval and getting around Geneva convention is only allowed to the most powerful...
Iraq was subjected to military force in accordance with numerous UN resolutions, or more accurately for their non-compliance with said resolutions. Also, I'd like to know when the US ever violated Geneva?

P.S. Does SC stand for Supreme Court? If so since when did they amend the Constitution to give war making powers to the Court? I suppose I missed that Amendment.
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      05-08-2008, 05:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
Iraq was subjected to military force in accordance with numerous UN resolutions, or more accurately for their non-compliance with said resolutions. Also, I'd like to know when the US ever violated Geneva?

P.S. Does SC stand for Supreme Court? If so since when did they amend the Constitution to give war making powers to the Court? I suppose I missed that Amendment.
I beleive SC = Security Council...
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      05-08-2008, 05:34 PM   #28
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I beleive SC = Security Council...
He's still in High School -- they teach them those details in the Senior Year...
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      05-08-2008, 05:48 PM   #29
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Iraq was subjected to military force in accordance with numerous UN resolutions, or more accurately for their non-compliance with said resolutions. Also, I'd like to know when the US ever violated Geneva?

.
1) IF and IF Iraq really violated all that, then ALL UN countries would have supported the war, and the Security Council would have approved it.

2) Many examples:
- prisoner tortures
- US attack with white sulphurus bombs on Iraqi civilians (Fallujah 2004)
IN FR Yugoslavia:
- UN Resolution from 1996 that condemns the use of Depleted Uranium. (See "Illegal Weapons")
- see more at: http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/14_law.htm

More: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=787985

Use of CLUSTER BOMBS: http://www.robert-fisk.com/american_terrorism.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0126-04.htm

If you want more, let me know...
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      05-08-2008, 07:58 PM   #30
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He's still in High School -- they teach them those details in the Senior Year...
Zing!!!!!!!!! There it is again dr325i, you are so clever!


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Originally Posted by BKsBimmer
Personally I don't think most people would buy a house with a mortgage that they know they can't afford. It's clear to me that mortage companys and brokers were actively selling these mortgages to people and misleading them about the terms to fatten their own wallets.
Well if they didn't know it, then they are idiots. I did quite a bit of research and made sure I had a back up plan in the unlikely event that I would lose my job before I bought my home. I guess that's just me though. I like to put a little thought into things before I make such an important decision and sign my life away to the bank.

Either way, I don't see why I should be responsible for the ppl that didn't think it out.
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      05-08-2008, 08:52 PM   #31
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Zing!!!!!!!!! There it is again dr325i, you are so clever!




Well if they didn't know it, then they are idiots. I did quite a bit of research and made sure I had a back up plan in the unlikely event that I would lose my job before I bought my home. I guess that's just me though. I like to put a little thought into things before I make such an important decision and sign my life away to the bank.

Either way, I don't see why I should be responsible for the ppl that didn't think it out.

With every post -- you simply repeat what I said about your age over and over..
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      05-08-2008, 10:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ///Metak View Post
+1000
Sdravo Zivo Brate!
-pavle
Are you under the impression that a sovereign nation requires UN or Security Council approval prior to taking military action?

What nations, other than the US and its allies in Korea and in the first Gulf War have done so?
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      05-09-2008, 07:19 AM   #33
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Are you under the impression that a sovereign nation requires UN or Security Council approval prior to taking military action?

What nations, other than the US and its allies in Korea and in the first Gulf War have done so?
Ahm, other nations of the SC backed it up since Iraq has done something (bad) in 1991.
Ever since then, Iraq has been isolated, starved and lived off the blackmarket oil exports. Saddam got richer and more powerful, Iraqi people suffered. Occassionally, the US would go and bomb them for no reason. Them cowboy decided to waste lives and money in 2003 when he had a perfect reason in Afghanistan, OBL within a radius of 100 miles, and backing of the WHOLE world.

The US created OBL, gave him the training and weapons. US "created" SH, gave him weapons and WMD that he used against his own people. He killed those poor people with our technology, now we continue doing so... Sad...

And YES, that is why the UN + SC was formed, so that cowboy would not go and conqur the less fortunate nations. Unfortunately, the gap is way too big now...
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      05-09-2008, 09:20 AM   #34
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With every post -- you simply repeat what I said about your age over and over..

Ah you got me again!
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      05-09-2008, 10:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_328i_Boston View Post
Blaming President Bush for the current economic difficulties is as insane as thanking Clinton for the boom in the late 90s. They both aren't responsible.

The current problem is almost entirely due to stupid consumers who signed mortgages they knowingly couldn't afford, coupled with the greed of lenders and investment banks who got made massive amounts of cash off of each loan that was processed.

What really troubles me is the massive amount of anti-American sentiment I see all over the place these days. Way too many people have no appreciation for this country and what it offers them. They have no respect for the military and their sole plan is to simply keep blaming others for their lot in life.
I know you are drinking the Bush kool-aid but he did a lot of things during his tenure that leave us in the position that we are in today.

The housing market is a prime example of how the administration/republican govt didn't care about predatory lending practices. Yes there are a large number of people who took on a bad debt to income ratio but there are many more swindled by lenders.

I don't even need to mention the hellaciously expensive and badly managed war on terror in, do I?

Most of us are actually fine even under Bush's guidance but we could be MUCH better off. It's not that we DON'T appreciate America it's just that its not the America it should have been.
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      05-09-2008, 10:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Are you under the impression that a sovereign nation requires UN or Security Council approval prior to taking military action?
...
How do I put this?......Uhmmm, DUH! Besides, I was refering to the US bomings in YU as an example. The US has got to stop being the world police. When we were attacked on 9/11 I fully supported the appropriate reaction in Afghanistan. Hit the training camps and go after OBL, but to go into Iraq before we finish the job in Afghanistan, is just plain dumb.

There is absolutely no question that the NATO attack in March 1999 was illegal . Article 2, section 4 of the UN Charter clearly says:

"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."

NATO had deliberately bypassed the UN. Lets also establish NATO=US because over 90% of the military operations performed under the cloak of NATO was done so by the United States of America.

Article 53 (Chapter VIII ) of the UN Charter clearly says that:

"The Security Council shall, where appropriate, utilize such regional arrangements or agencies for enforcement action under its authority. But no enforcement action shall be taken under regional arrangements or by regional agencies without the authorization of the Security Council." (emphasis added)

Furthermore, Article 103 (Chapter XVI ) asserts its primacy over any other regional agreement, so NATO's actions would have been illegal under the UN Charter even if the Alliance had an obligation to act in Kosovo. Even NATO's own charter the North Atlantic Treaty of 1949 was violated by the act of war in March 1999:
"Article 1

"The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. []

"Article 7

"This Treaty does not affect, and shall not be interpreted as affecting in any way the rights and obligations under the Charter of the Parties which are members of the United Nations, or the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security." (emphasis added)

The attack violated other laws and treaties as well: the Helsinki Final Act of 1975 (violating the territorial integrity of a signatory state) and the 1980 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (using coercion to compel a state to sign a treaty i.e., the Rambouillet ultimatum ).
Yugoslavia had not attacked any NATO members, nor indeed threatened the security of any other country in the region; it was itself under an attack by a terrorist , irredentist organization. What the US(Clinton) did on March 24, 1999 was an act of aggression, a crime against peace .
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      05-09-2008, 11:01 AM   #37
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We need a leader who does not value his own ideals above and beyond the wishes of the people, by the people and for the people, and understands the meaning of separation of church and state.
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      05-09-2008, 11:12 AM   #38
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We need a leader who does not value his own ideals above and beyond the wishes of the people, by the people and for the people, and understands the meaning of separation of church and state.
Agreed
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      05-09-2008, 01:21 PM   #39
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We need a leader who does not value his own ideals above and beyond the wishes of the people, by the people and for the people, and understands the meaning of separation of church and state.
EXACTLY!
The robot above does not realize that Bush was elected by the people of this country to protect, serve our interests and try to make our lives better (not bitter). With the people's approval of <30%, that means he failed. He was not elected by 25% of population, he was not elected by 6% that are rich and only care about their bank accounts and nothing else...
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      05-09-2008, 07:36 PM   #40
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War creates tension in the market, which leads to HIGH OIL prices (panic speculation) which affects every American. So I blame G.W. Bush for putting us in this position by invading Iraq. Peace no war

By the way, my co-worker was deployed to Iraq. He pointed out that the majority of the troops there would vote for Obama.
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      05-09-2008, 10:56 PM   #41
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With the people's approval of <30%, that means he failed.
So did congress double fail then?
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shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      05-10-2008, 01:04 AM   #42
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So did congress double fail then?
I guess so, I am very disappointed in the current Congress...nothing has changed, many changes were expected...
But again, I do not recall such a great division in the USA, in recent history. "The Uniter" did it....
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