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      04-25-2008, 11:42 AM   #1
e90im
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McBush on economy...

On April 17, McCain told Bloomberg Television, “You could make an argument that there’s been great progress economically” since Bush took office, even though that was “no comfort” to “families now … facing these tremendous economic challenges.”
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      04-25-2008, 11:49 AM   #2
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Blaming President Bush for the current economic difficulties is as insane as thanking Clinton for the boom in the late 90s. They both aren't responsible.

The current problem is almost entirely due to stupid consumers who signed mortgages they knowingly couldn't afford, coupled with the greed of lenders and investment banks who got made massive amounts of cash off of each loan that was processed.

What really troubles me is the massive amount of anti-American sentiment I see all over the place these days. Way too many people have no appreciation for this country and what it offers them. They have no respect for the military and their sole plan is to simply keep blaming others for their lot in life.
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      04-25-2008, 11:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by E92_328i_Boston View Post
Blaming President Bush for the current economic difficulties is as insane as thanking Clinton for the boom in the late 90s. They both aren't responsible.

The current problem is almost entirely due to stupid consumers who signed mortgages they knowingly couldn't afford, coupled with the greed of lenders and investment banks who got made massive amounts of cash off of each loan that was processed.

What really troubles me is the massive amount of anti-American sentiment I see all over the place these days. Way too many people have no appreciation for this country and what it offers them. They have no respect for the military and their sole plan is to simply keep blaming others for their lot in life.
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      04-25-2008, 12:06 PM   #4
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What the fuck does respect for military mean? Do I have to have a "I support our troops" bumper sticker just so I'm not considered anti-American? If that's what really troubles you, then I'm even more troubled. I would really hope that assumingly the most professional soldiers in the world would give two shits about what the rest of their country thinks of why and how they are performing their JOB. Being in the military is a JOB, it's not a calling, and stop trying to patriotize it.

This shit is really pissing me off at this point.
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      04-25-2008, 12:15 PM   #5
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Do you actually know anyone serving? It sounds like you don't.

You better believe that the general sentiment here has an effect on their morale over there. It absolutely does.

You're very lucky that there are people out there who are brave enough to serve this country overseas. If there weren't, we would all be speaking German right now.
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      04-25-2008, 12:32 PM   #6
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It's more likely you would be speaking Russian or Japanese, but that's besides the point.

I just don't share the romaticized sentiment of military service to the public. The only military person that serves the civilian population is the commander in chief. He's done a remarkably shitty job, and there's no need to sugarcoat it. The fact that I want the troops out clearly means that i hate them and am ungrateful for their service...
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      04-25-2008, 12:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negotiator View Post
What the fuck does respect for military mean? Do I have to have a "I support our troops" bumper sticker just so I'm not considered anti-American? If that's what really troubles you, then I'm even more troubled. I would really hope that assumingly the most professional soldiers in the world would give two shits about what the rest of their country thinks of why and how they are performing their JOB. Being in the military is a JOB, it's not a calling, and stop trying to patriotize it.

This shit is really pissing me off at this point.
I would have to disagree with you. Being in the military is not just a job it is a calling. I know people like to make light of terms like duty, commitment , sacrifice, etc... but they actually mean something to those in the military. Ask yourself who would volunteer to be separated from his family, live in harsh conditions, risk death or disfiguring injury for a small paycheck? No one in their right mind would unless they believed they were making the sacrifice for a larger reason.

Supporting the troops is not about putting a bumper sticker on your car it is about appreciating what they do and respecting them for it. Don't try to tell me that professional soldiers don't care whether the public supports them because they do. Take a minute to thank a soldier or buy him a cup of coffee and see for yourself how much that small act means to him.

We, as a nation, sent them to war the very least we could do is appreciate the job they are doing for us.
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      04-25-2008, 01:15 PM   #8
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I just checked my records and: I did NOT send anyone to war.
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      04-25-2008, 01:37 PM   #9
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It's not so much that, as the circular logic that's behind it.

Me: Bush sucks
XX: Give example
Me: War
XX: Get rid of evil Saddam
Me: Don't care, still sucks - it's stupid and it's run like shit.
XX: But the troops!
Me: Bush sucks...
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      04-25-2008, 01:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
We, as a nation, sent them to war the very least we could do is appreciate the job they are doing for us.
I find this quote interesting to an extent, but slightly at a different angle. I'm usually very fond of Bill Maher, however he adopted the philosophy that we should pull out asap (c) Ron Paul, while most moderates on both sides largely think that we as a country are responsible for our actions.

I tend to agree, however my main concern is that I want to see the former head of the CIA, the President, Vice President all tried for crimes against humanity. It is my belief that no matter the time period that we pull out our forces, there will be ethnic cleansing in Iraq. I also firmly believe that it will rapidly gravitate towards the anti-western Sharia faction, as soon as 5 years after United States recalls its military contingent. In the end, those responsible will have done massive harm to both the United States economic, military, political and diplomatic standing, as well as disproportionate amount of death, pain, and suffering inflicted onto the civilian population of Iraq.
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      04-25-2008, 02:09 PM   #11
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It seems to me that you are the one who cannot reasonably articulate your position.

I have never claimed that opposing the initial invasion or advocating a different strategy shows a lack of support for the troops. What does however is attempting to justify your position by questioning the honor, ability, or motives of the soldiers who are serving. Comments such as, " we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management: U.S. management" and ""willing suspension of disbelief" show disrespect to the troops.
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      04-25-2008, 02:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negotiator View Post
I tend to agree, however my main concern is that I want to see the former head of the CIA, the President, Vice President all tried for crimes against humanity. It is my belief that no matter the time period that we pull out our forces, there will be ethnic cleansing in Iraq. I also firmly believe that it will rapidly gravitate towards the anti-western Sharia faction, as soon as 5 years after United States recalls its military contingent. In the end, those responsible will have done massive harm to both the United States economic, military, political and diplomatic standing, as well as disproportionate amount of death, pain, and suffering inflicted onto the civilian population of Iraq.
What exactly would the details of the charges be? Did they order the slaughter of civilians? Did they find soldiers willing to carry out such an order?

Surely you do not believe that they should be tried because you have a crystal ball that tells you how things will turn out in Iraq, do you?

Nothing could do greater harm to our military, political, and diplomatic standing than leaving Iraq before we accomplish what we set out to do.
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      04-25-2008, 02:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_328i_Boston View Post
Do you actually know anyone serving? It sounds like you don't.

You better believe that the general sentiment here has an effect on their morale over there. It absolutely does.

You're very lucky that there are people out there who are brave enough to serve this country overseas. If there weren't, we would all be speaking German right now.
WHat the hell are you talking about?
Our military is supposed to be purely defensive force (hence Dept of Defense) And all that Bush has done was offensive that caused mad spending (in access of $1T) and so on. No world's economy could sustain that on top of cyclical recession that was due.

I do not blame Bush for the downturn, as I do not applaud Clinton for the booming times in the late 90's, however, he's to blame for the extent and length of this and future recessions as the country is financially and emotionally completely drained.
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      04-25-2008, 02:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Our military is supposed to be purely defensive force (hence Dept of Defense) And all that Bush has done was offensive
9/11 = attack thus kill Al'Qaeda = defense (for Afghanistan)
Iraq was done in the interest of defense as well, though we (the international community) really fucked up the intel on that one.
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      04-25-2008, 02:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
9/11 = attack thus kill Al'Qaeda = defense (for Afghanistan)
Iraq was done in the interest of defense as well, though we (the international community) really fucked up the intel on that one.
I agree with you on the background...
However, Afghanistan is in worse shape than in 2003 -- therefore, failure on both sides...
And, I must blame him for that, too (and his military leadership that has done nothing right in 6 years...)
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      04-25-2008, 02:37 PM   #16
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What exactly would the details of the charges be? Did they order the slaughter of civilians? Did they find soldiers willing to carry out such an order?
Do you have the OPPOSITE info???
I do have the info for example that Milosevic did NOT directly order murders in Bosnia, but was tried for that. But he knew about them, as did Bush and Chaney...

They were the leaders at the time, they knew about the murders, they are responsible for it!
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      05-07-2008, 11:11 AM   #17
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4 MORE YEARS!!!
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      05-07-2008, 12:29 PM   #18
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.
4 MORE YEARS!!!
no way! no way that thing...he...whatever can live more than 2 years...
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      05-07-2008, 12:52 PM   #19
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.....I want to see the former head of the CIA, the President, Vice President all tried for crimes against humanity......
As soon as Clinton, Albright, etc are tried for the bombings in the FR.YU.
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      05-07-2008, 01:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_328i_Boston View Post
Blaming President Bush for the current economic difficulties is as insane as thanking Clinton for the boom in the late 90s. They both aren't responsible.

The current problem is almost entirely due to stupid consumers who signed mortgages they knowingly couldn't afford, coupled with the greed of lenders and investment banks who got made massive amounts of cash off of each loan that was processed.

What really troubles me is the massive amount of anti-American sentiment I see all over the place these days. Way too many people have no appreciation for this country and what it offers them. They have no respect for the military and their sole plan is to simply keep blaming others for their lot in life.
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      05-07-2008, 04:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ///Metak View Post
As soon as Clinton, Albright, etc are tried for the bombings in the FR.YU.
Yeah, that'll happen.
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      05-07-2008, 04:37 PM   #22
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Yeah, that'll happen.
exactly my point. "
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