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      04-19-2008, 11:00 PM   #1
vulcan747
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Check out this LA Times article flaming the GT-R

He's spot on! Convinced me to stay with my first choice - The M3.

RUMBLE SEAT: 2009 Nissan GT-R - By Dan Lyon - LA Times 4/16/2008

A marvel of power and speed, the all-wheel-drive GT-R coupe is so safe and serene that it's curiously lacking in thrills.
I know what you want from me. You think I'm just your little word slut, that I'm here just to arouse you with steamy descriptions of the new and instantly legendary Nissan GT-R. You want me to parade around in frilly verbiage, like: "The acceleration of the twin-turbo, all-wheel-drive, 480-hp GT-R is much like a 50-yard field goal in the NFL, wherein your butt is the football." Sigh. I feel so used.

But I'm not going to do that, see? I'm not going to say that Nissan's appallingly fast, superbly balanced GT-R sports car is a Ferrari killer, though it easily manhandles Maranello's F430 in 0-60 mph performance, quarter-mile time and lateral grip, and for a fraction of the price (an MSRP of around $70,000, though dealers can charge what they want, and will). I refuse to be drawn into comparisons between the Porsche GT2 -- a $200,000 street racer with suspension settings by Torquemada -- and this serene, effortlessly livable, all-weather coupe that, inconveniently for the top-line Porsche, matches it step for step. It matters a little, but not a lot, that the GT-R is within a second or two (7.38 seconds) of the production-car lap record at Germany's fabled Nürburgring. After all, most Americans think the Nürburgring is a lobster dish.

FOR THE RECORD:
Car review: A story on the Nissan GT-R in the April 16 edition of Highway 1incorrectly stated the vehicle's lap time at Germany's Nürburgring track as 7.38 seconds. The correct time is 7 minutes, 38 seconds. The review also referred to Yamamoto, a Japanese battleship. The correct spelling is Yamato. Some editions incorrectly referred to Reys Enginnering. The company's name is Rays Engineering.


Why? Because, for all its pants-ripping performance, the GT-R is surprisingly -- amazingly -- not all that exciting to drive. Oh yeah, there's epic velocity here, and yet, because there is so much assurance, so many layers of electronic self-preservation, there isn't much frisson or fear. Without fear, there is no fun, which anyone who's had sex in a public place can tell you.

Nissan doesn't even blush. Here's a direct quote from the product briefing: "GT-R offers supercar performance to a broad range of customers for the first time without intimidation."

Despite the GT-R's official nickname, "Godzilla," it's more like 2 tons of fluffy kitten.

Right about now legions of fanboys are throwing down their Sony PlayStation controllers to fire off strongly worded, if badly spelled, e-mails of outrage and dissent. The GT-R's cult status comes courtesy of the video game Gran Turismo, which introduced American audiences to Japan's only true super car. (Previously known as the Skyline GT-R, several generations of the car have appeared over the past 20 years.) In that it started life as an ordinary coupe and was then invested with such insane amounts of raciness (some Skylines had as much as 600 factory horsepower under the hood), the Skyline GT-R had that certain something, that deep perversion of purpose, that Asian import tuners dearly love. It was so wrong it was right.

The new model -- which in the past few years has been repeatedly sighted in prototype testing around the Nürburgring like some 193-mph Brigadoon -- now has its own distinct sheet metal, so the Skyline part of the name has been dropped. It is the first GT-R model to come to the United States. What's fascinating about the GT-R project is just how much Japanese national pride it has come to represent. Nissan's chief creative officer and GT-R guru Shiro Nakamura insisted that the design reflect Japanese culture and avoid aping the razor-cut European exoticism of Ferrari and Lamborghini. And so the GT-R's bluff, blocky masses and angular lines, inspired by the robots -- oh, excuse me -- mecha mobile suits in the "Gundam" anime series. Words cannot describe how awesome this is, if you are 11.

About as pretty as a meat mallet, the GT-R sure does look menacing in person. Its most distinctive features are the dramatic "aero-blade" air extractors aft of the front wheel wells and the fierce glowering headlamps drawn back in a scowl like a Kabuki mask (or Cindy McCain). The underbody is fared in to reduce lift -- the car has significant aero downforce at speed. And coefficient of drag is only .27.

Another surprise: This is a big car, 183.3 inches long (almost 10 inches longer than a Corvette). And it's heavy: 3,836 pounds.

And why not? This is a lot of automobile. Beginning with the engine: a hand-built and blueprinted 3.8-liter, twin-turbocharged V6 putting out 480 hp at 6,400 rpm and 430 pound-feet of torque between 3,200 and 5,200 rpm. At a minimum. Motor Trend's resident skeptic Frank Markus, puzzled that the GT-R was outperforming lighter and more powerful cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo, recently put a GT-R on a borrowed dynamometer. He concluded the engine is producing at least 507 hp and likely a lot more. I don't have access to a dyno, but given the gear ratios and quarter-mile trap speed (the poor man's dyno) of 120.0 mph, I estimate the engine is putting out more like 530 hp.

The big crank is connected to a six-speed, dual-clutch gearbox in a rear transaxle/all-wheel-drive transfer case. Typically, 100% of engine torque is directed at the rear wheels. If the AWD system's cybernetics detect wheel slip, big yaw moments or other kinds of slipping and sliding, it will step in, rerouting up to 50% of engine torque to the front wheels while coordinating with the angels of the stability control system. You can turn off stability control, but it's plain the car's dynamics have been developed with the system ciphering away in the background. Which is to say, the car's faster around a racetrack with stability control on.

The powertrain ends with four gorgeous 20-inch Rays Engineering wheels, with bead knurling on the wheel lip (to prevent the tires from twisting on the rim), wrapped in spec-built, nitrogen-filled Bridgestones.

It all gets pretty nerdy from here, so let me button it up a bit. Computer-controlled adaptive suspension. Race-threshold settings for transmission, traction and stability control. And a launch-control system that allows the mother of all torque-brake takeoffs: There's a brief moan as the highly excited gear packs sluice torque fore and aft, but there's no drama, no wheel spin, no choking incense of clutch. The GT-R simply begins moving like some pneumatically powered experiment in a physics lab. Your guts and wits catch up a beat or two later. On the day I drove the car at Fernley Raceway, near Reno, testers were getting 0-60 mph launches in the 3.1-second range. That's as quick as any car I've ever driven.

By the way, the car is built like the freakin' Yamamoto. I mean, it's solid.

So, what's the problem? It's not really a problem, just a matter of character. This car has been engineered to produce astonishing performance numbers, specifically around the Nürburgring, when driven by the finest drivers in the world. Driven by something less than the finest drivers in the world -- and that would include me -- the margins of safety and control are so broad that it actually makes the car uninvolving. Say what you want about the Porsche GT2: when you drive that car hard, you're in the fight for your existential soul. You are hanging on for a life made ever more dear by the peril.

Around the track in the GT-R, at first I thought, "Oh, wow, I'm driving my butt off. I'm a genius behind the wheel." Soon, though, I realized the car was doing most of the work, saving me from mistakes. The GT-R is the ultimate self-correcting mechanism. No matter how wrong you get your line or how bad you fumble your braking, simply turn the wheel where you want to go and mat the throttle. In an instant, the computers and AWD riddle out a solution and off you go. That doesn't happen in a Ferrari.

And so, the paradox of the Japanese super car that does everything better but is still somehow less fun. As for the engineering, you cannot question that some of the smartest car guys in the world nailed the GT-R together. But when it comes to the thrill of driving, they still have something to learn.

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...,1179971.story
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      04-19-2008, 11:06 PM   #2
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I agree with him it is "uninvolving".

The car practically drives itself. It is fast as hell though.
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      04-19-2008, 11:23 PM   #3
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The best review I heard is that it's like driving a car in the Gran Turismo video game. It does everything for you.
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      04-19-2008, 11:41 PM   #4
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Vulcan,

If stating that the GT-R has performance numbers comparable to the GT2 and Ferrari F430 and you still believe this is some kind of flame throwing article for the GT-R, then one must assume a scorched earth policy for a comparably priced M3, given it's performance and Ring times.
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      04-19-2008, 11:48 PM   #5
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Humorous review, but I bet I could still get my heart pace to bump up a few notches driving it.
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      04-20-2008, 02:22 AM   #6
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It's a great car, and represents super VFM. Too bad it's so ugly.
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      04-20-2008, 02:27 AM   #7
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Humorous review, but I bet I could still get my heart pace to bump up a few notches driving it.
+1
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      04-20-2008, 03:09 AM   #8
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good review. i'm sure they'll be plenty others praising the GT-R to the heavens soon enough. either way, it appears to be a great car, but i would never consider it for the fact that it is so fugly.
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      04-20-2008, 06:09 AM   #9
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Vulcan,

If stating that the GT-R has performance numbers comparable to the GT2 and Ferrari F430 and you still believe this is some kind of flame throwing article for the GT-R, then one must assume a scorched earth policy for a comparably priced M3, given it's performance and Ring times.
Ruff- You'r right, it was a harsh adjective, don't know what got into me last night. Too many Scottish Ales I'll bet. Lets go with saute or braised.
If you want to see how well done some GT-R boys are over this, go to NAGTROC and check out the thread - http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22452
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      04-20-2008, 07:36 AM   #10
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i was talking to an executive at nissan and he said the biggest worry with the car is long-term reliability. Nissan went so hard after every award it is like buying a bmw with every dinan modification known to man. everything is pushed to the limit.
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      04-20-2008, 08:11 AM   #11
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i was talking to an executive at nissan and he said the biggest worry with the car is long-term reliability. Nissan went so hard after every award it is like buying a bmw with every dinan modification known to man. everything is pushed to the limit.
Hmm. I guess the upcoming Spec-V must be a 50k mile car for sure then.
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      04-20-2008, 10:55 AM   #12
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"Despite the GT-R's official nickname, "Godzilla," it's more like 2 tons of fluffy kitten."

Too funny.

Seriously, I think the pictures of the car look ugly ... in gray. I saw a video of a red GT-R and I thought it looked ! I'll just have to wait and see it IRL to make a decision if I really think it looks good or not.

I wouldn't get one because a) the back seats aren't big enough b) price won't be anywhere near $70K and c) I'm scared to death that Nissan service departments will be working on it. It may not have the soul of a Porsche or Ferrari but I bet it is still fun to drive. Other than that it's a great car. Kudos to Nissan.
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      04-20-2008, 11:03 AM   #13
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I don't see how anyone can agree or disagree about the uninvolving nature of the GTR until they have driven it. Blowing the doors off a Porsche 911 Turbo, Corvette, and Viper with a rice rocket is pretty exciting in itself, not to mention all the other cars lower on the pecking order. And you can probably do that with a cup of Starbucks in one hand.

I'm not sure I would call the car ugly, but it certainly isn't beautiful. In that price range, I would say the Cayman-S is beautiful--sleek design, round curves, very organically flowing body. The only redeeming quality of the GTR's Mitsubishi-esh design is that one can see vestiges of the old Skyline in the circular taillight arrangement and angular rear roof line.
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      04-20-2008, 11:43 AM   #14
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Eww, Cayman S? I think the Z4 M coupe looks much better. And the 911 even looks better. To each his own. I really want to see the GT-R in red in real life though. If it looks good to an 11 year old, well I guess I might just have to regress. That wouldn't be too hard. I'm a guy after all and we all know that we stop maturing at 12. At least my wife says that.

I wouldn't drive with a cup of Starbucks, or any drink, in any nice car. In fact, I don't drink Starbucks anyway. As I heard someone say on the radio, they're not in the coffee business. They're in the dairy biz. Although when I think of a Starbucks drinker I don't think of them as driving a GT-R or an M3 unless it's the convertible.
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      04-20-2008, 11:46 AM   #15
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Hmm. I guess the upcoming Spec-V must be a 50k mile car for sure then.
I was thinking of that as I hit enter.....
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      04-20-2008, 11:58 AM   #16
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I wouldn't get one because a) the back seats aren't big enough b) price won't be anywhere near $70K and c) I'm scared to death that Nissan service departments will be working on it. It may not have the soul of a Porsche or Ferrari but I bet it is still fun to drive. Other than that it's a great car. Kudos to Nissan.
exactly where I am. I wanted one but not for $93K which the dealers want.

Then I got to thinking about the M3 v GTR

the M3 cheaper (every which way, they can be the same msrp but if dealers won't sell for msrp that number is not valid so the price gap is ~$20K for real)

Then I see the GTR rear seat has 6" less headroom than the m3 coupe. What the heck is that? The GTR is a BIGGER car than the m3 (except hight so that's where it doesn't have headroom, but it also doesn't have rear seat legroom.)

finally the M3 is OK fast for me. I test drove it and wasn't saying darn I wish this was 50% faster. It was just fast enough for me and very fun, likely very fun once you own it an get used to the limits.

IMO the GTR is the proverbial sledge-hammer used to swat a fly. OK it'll do the job but overkill for the street especially the way I drive.
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      04-20-2008, 12:04 PM   #17
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This article pretty much sums up why I came back to the M3... I gave up my allocation for a GT-R because I was afraid it would be too sterile for my tastes. I want a car that's more practical than my Z06, but is still fast... That being said, I don't want a car that does the driving for me, and I'm willing to sacrifice some performance because of that - hence the M3 for me
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      04-20-2008, 12:11 PM   #18
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GT-R review

Entertaining review. Without having driven or seen one, from what I know I would have to agree with the conclusions. A great piece of engineering., though. Funy how excelling at almost everything can ultimately mean it does not excel at what matters most to lots of enthusiasts.

I'm extremely happy with the M3 and it gives me as much performance as I want or need. Still, my peepee may shrink a bit when I meet a GT-R on the street!
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      04-20-2008, 12:15 PM   #19
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This article pretty much sums up why I came back to the M3... I gave up my allocation for a GT-R because I was afraid it would be too sterile for my tastes. I want a car that's more practical than my Z06, but is still fast... That being said, I don't want a car that does the driving for me, and I'm willing to sacrifice some performance because of that - hence the M3 for me
Funny you should mention about a car that does the driving for you. Have you seen the episode of top gear where Jeremy Clarkson goes out in a BMW 330 that drives itself around the track? That guy is hilarious. Even my wife likes to watch him. He said something like "This is the greatest car innovation, ever." Then he proceeds to take the car out and screams all the way around the track. And he forgot to ask how to stop it. "Hmm, let's see. Three quarters of a tank of petrol ..."
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      04-20-2008, 12:20 PM   #20
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Still, my peepee may shrink a bit when I meet a GT-R on the street!
i think mantis said it best :

the other last thing is i felt my penis shrank to 1.3 inches when i was followed by a LP640, he followed me and paced me at 30 mph under a bridge and just gunned his car. i think M3's exhaust fell off..
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      04-20-2008, 12:20 PM   #21
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Funny you should mention about a car that does the driving for you. Have you seen the episode of top gear where Jeremy Clarkson goes out in a BMW 330 that drives itself around the track? That guy is hilarious. Even my wife likes to watch him. He said something like "This is the greatest car innovation, ever." Then he proceeds to take the car out and screams all the way around the track. And he forgot to ask how to stop it. "Hmm, let's see. Three quarters of a tank of petrol ..."
I have indeed... I'm a huge Top Gear fan and can't wait for season 11 to air (supposedly in June) - in HD no less!
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      04-20-2008, 12:58 PM   #22
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exactly where I am. I wanted one but not for $93K which the dealers want.

Then I got to thinking about the M3 v GTR

the M3 cheaper (every which way, they can be the same msrp but if dealers won't sell for msrp that number is not valid so the price gap is ~$20K for real)

Then I see the GTR rear seat has 6" less headroom than the m3 coupe. What the heck is that? The GTR is a BIGGER car than the m3 (except hight so that's where it doesn't have headroom, but it also doesn't have rear seat legroom.)

finally the M3 is OK fast for me. I test drove it and wasn't saying darn I wish this was 50% faster. It was just fast enough for me and very fun, likely very fun once you own it an get used to the limits.

IMO the GTR is the proverbial sledge-hammer used to swat a fly. OK it'll do the job but overkill for the street especially the way I drive.

we asian's are shorter ok
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