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      04-11-2008, 11:18 AM   #1
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Does the M3 generate downforce?

I was reading over a thread on 6speed, and was just wondering, does the M3 generate downforce @ high speed, or just less lift? I would expect that, with the lack of an cover for the underbody + the very small spoiler, it would generate some lift. I mean, supposedly a GT3RS barely generated downforce!

Thanks...

6speed thread:
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...d.php?t=125504
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      04-11-2008, 11:57 AM   #2
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I would reckon on some lift at the very least. Very few cars without spoilers and splitters are capable of producing little lift, never mind downforce.
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      04-11-2008, 12:12 PM   #3
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The side view mirrors were engineered to generate some downforce. If you turn them upside down you can fly.
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      04-11-2008, 12:22 PM   #4
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We have some data from the Supertest:
@ 200 kph: 10kg lift on the front and 23kg lift on the rear. Quite good they say.

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?i...7030922ba4.jpg


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      04-11-2008, 12:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
The side view mirrors were engineered to generate some downforce. If you turn them upside down you can fly.
Hahahaha!!! And they generate 4 hp per mirror as well.
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      04-11-2008, 12:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
We have some data from the Supertest:
@ 200 kph: 10kg lift on the front and 23kg lift on the rear. Quite good they say.

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?i...7030922ba4.jpg


Best regards, south
So very little "lift" but no downforce. Makes total sense.

South, an off topíc question, can you confirm that the EDC on normal setting is dynamic in the sense that it will get harder automatically as you push the car on curbs etc...? Sorry for the off topic queston.
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      04-11-2008, 12:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Hahahaha!!! And they generate 4 hp per mirror as well.
, but only with the high gloss finish.


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      04-11-2008, 12:32 PM   #8
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Is the amount of lift generated by the M a good thing or a bad thing. I'm thinking it not ideal but wanted to confirm
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      04-11-2008, 12:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadget View Post
Is the amount of lift generated by the M a good thing or a bad thing. I'm thinking it not ideal but wanted to confirm
It's a good thing since the amount of lift is quite low. In general lift is not good, downforce is.


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      04-11-2008, 12:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
South, an off topíc question, can you confirm that the EDC on normal setting is dynamic in the sense that it will get harder automatically as you push the car on curbs etc...? Sorry for the off topic queston.
Yes, Normal and Comfort are dynamic/active whereas Sport is passive.


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      04-11-2008, 12:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Yes, Normal and Comfort are dynamic/active whereas Sport is passive.


Best regards, south
Thanks South! And, do the rear spoilers etc... that creat some down force cancel out the minor lift at say, 200kph?
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      04-11-2008, 01:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
We have some data from the Supertest:
@ 200 kph: 10kg lift on the front and 23kg lift on the rear. Quite good they say.

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?i...7030922ba4.jpg


Best regards, south
Perfect. Most concise and to the point response I can ask for...That isn't that much. Very good job BMW and well, I think it would be better if they but an underbody cover + better diffuser, BUT WTV! I need to get me a hold of these supertests! Do you by any chance have the one for the GT3RS? I'd like to see what they came up with

and @ gadget. Of course one would rather have downforce @ high speeds, and this would make the car even more planted, but a small amount of lift is really not major, as it wouldn't affect much. Either way, the more downforce, the slower but better handling (usually).
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      04-11-2008, 01:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Thanks South! And, do the rear spoilers etc... that creat some down force cancel out the minor lift at say, 200kph?
Yes. More at those speeds - I believe, don't quote me on it. And they don't cancel it, they reduce it. But also, I would never get a wider and bigger spoiler in the back without changing the front with a splitter or something, because I wouldn't want to get more lift in the front than in the back
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      04-11-2008, 01:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Hahahaha!!! And they generate 4 hp per mirror as well.
I heard a rumor that Dinan was coming out with a reflash for the mirrors. You gain another 2.7 hp each. Indeed, the Dinan badge is worth 3 lbs downforce alone. And not to be outdone, AC Schnitzer is coming out with carbon fiber splitters for the mirrors.

Seriously, if the car generated any net downforce then I would be surprised. I don't know if the numbers above for lift are good or not, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Anybody know what the figures are for a GT3 with that big wing out back?
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      04-11-2008, 01:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Thanks South! And, do the rear spoilers etc... that creat some down force cancel out the minor lift at say, 200kph?
The Supertest data is measured at 200kph.
For comparison the 335i generates 42kg lift at the front and 28kg lift at the rear at 200kph. And to quote another example (sorry Footie): The S5 has 52kg and 34kg lift at 200kph.


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      04-11-2008, 01:05 PM   #16
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I wounder what difference is made by the splitter, diffuser and CLS boot lid in terms of additional downforce.
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      04-11-2008, 01:06 PM   #17
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it does weigh 3700 lbs to begin with so it's not like it needs a lot of more downforce. I know on race track etc. it's good to have but likely in everyday situations downforce is not needed much.
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      04-11-2008, 01:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Yes. More at those speeds - I believe, don't quote me on it. And they don't cancel it, they reduce it. But also, I would never get a wider and bigger spoiler in the back without changing the front with a splitter or something, because I wouldn't want to get more life in the front than in the back
Got it, fortunately that is the way I'm going!! ACS splitter in front, CLS boot lid/diffuser in the rear. Makes sense that they just act as opposing forces rather than cancel out.
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      04-11-2008, 01:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
Anybody know what the figures are for a GT3 with that big wing out back?
I just posted a request ^^^ for anyone w/ the supertest pictures for a GT3, but according to this http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...15&postcount=5, most Porsches generate "Between 6 - 12kg with different spoilers that's all"

Also, as a comparison, the F430, with it's amazingly sexy underbody tray, and rear diffuser, "at 300km/h (186mph), generates 280kg of downforce (130kg front, 150kg rear)"
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      04-11-2008, 01:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Perfect. Most concise and to the point response I can ask for...That isn't that much. Very good job BMW and well, I think it would be better if they but an underbody cover + better diffuser, BUT WTV! I need to get me a hold of these supertests! Do you by any chance have the one for the GT3RS? I'd like to see what they came up with
Sure, @ 200kph the GT3 RS generates 2kg lift at the front axle and 10kg downforce at the rear axle.


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      04-11-2008, 01:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
I just posted a request ^^^ for anyone w/ the supertest pictures for a GT3, but according to this http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...15&postcount=5, most Porsches generate "Between 6 - 12kg with different spoilers that's all"

Also, as a comparison, the F430, with it's amazingly sexy underbody tray, and rear diffuser, "at 300km/h (186mph), generates 280kg of downforce (130kg front, 150kg rear)"
Downforce helps keep the tires sticking, but just as drag, lift (or downforce) varies as the square of speed, generally. I doubt downforce comes into play under 100mph. Only autobahn cruisers would really care. But dayamm! 280 kg downforce?
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      04-11-2008, 01:15 PM   #22
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Where do you get these! Do you have a depository of the supertests?

Really appreciate the info BTW, thanks.
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