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      04-01-2008, 03:05 PM   #23
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Forza2 more realistic than GT5: Prologue? Have you guys even played GT5: Prologue yet? It just came out last week in Europe and won't be out in the U.S. until April 14th. Or are you just saying that because you own 360s?

Check this video out and tell me again how unrealistic GT5: Prologue is:

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      04-01-2008, 03:27 PM   #24
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GT series def better than Forza... but this is if off the topic... its PS3 vs 360...
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      04-01-2008, 03:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaaz View Post
Forza2 more realistic than GT5: Prologue? Have you guys even played GT5: Prologue yet? It just came out last week in Europe and won't be out in the U.S. until April 14th. Or are you just saying that because you own 360s?

Check this video out and tell me again how unrealistic GT5: Prologue is:

Realistic physics and driving vs realistic graphics. GT5 looks a million times better, yes, but Forza is still more realistic in driving. Go play it and look at the telemetry and changes you can do to the car and how it affects it. And most importantly, go run into a wall. They said they were adding damage in GT5, did they? Even if they did, I'd be surprised if it were as complex as in Forza 2.
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      04-01-2008, 04:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jaaz View Post
Forza2 more realistic than GT5: Prologue? Have you guys even played GT5: Prologue yet? It just came out last week in Europe and won't be out in the U.S. until April 14th. Or are you just saying that because you own 360s?

Check this video out and tell me again how unrealistic GT5: Prologue is:
Let me make an analogy for you. Comparing GT5 to Forza 2 is like comparing the e46 M3 to the new C63. Forza 2 has been out for over a year, an eon in video game time. GT4 to Forza 2 is a more realistic comparison. Even having never played GT5, I'm fairly certain Forza 2 is still a superior driving simulator because GT has never had good physics, it's more graphics focused. I'd bet they're not going to make the physics uber all of a sudden.
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      04-01-2008, 04:39 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaaz View Post
Forza2 more realistic than GT5: Prologue? Have you guys even played GT5: Prologue yet? It just came out last week in Europe and won't be out in the U.S. until April 14th. Or are you just saying that because you own 360s?

Check this video out and tell me again how unrealistic GT5: Prologue is:

I've got both systems and both games - In my opinion - Forza2 is the better of the 2 as a car sim although GT5 looks better. This wasn't supposed to be GT vs Forza though - guess it was kind of bound to happen though - being a car forum and all.

I use professional physics and no aids on GT5 - it's still arcadey - I can run into another car with a closing speed of 60mph and nothing happens. My car doesn't get deflected - the "hit" cars don't either. It's just not "real" IMO. Yes I know we are discussing a game

GT5 is easy to play - you can just drive along the barriers (as if they are coated with silicone) at full tilt until the later races when penalties are introduced.
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      04-01-2008, 04:47 PM   #28
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Ajerman: I believe damage is confirmed for the full GT5 release, but not for GT5: Prologue. Still, there is more to realism than just damage physics. In fact, if you REALLY wanted realistic damage, one mistake and crash into the wall is likely to end your race. Honestly, I am not sure whether I WANT such realistic damage (or at least I hope GT5 gives me an option to control the effects of damage).

Firstclass: I see your point in comparing Forza2 to GT5: Prologue, but your comparison is even worse! Comparing GT4, a last generation racing game released on the PS2 years ago with Forza2 a next generation racing game released for the 360 a year ago? No wai.

I like Forza2. But like I said, the Forza series is a relative newcomer when you compare it to the pedigree Polyphony Digital has built with the Gran Turismo series. I can't wait to play GT5: Prologue for myself on April 15, but based on that video I linked (and tons of others) the game is looking to be amazingly realistic (except for the lack of damage of course, whch admittedly sucks).
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      04-01-2008, 10:17 PM   #29
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Ajerman: I believe damage is confirmed for the full GT5 release, but not for GT5: Prologue. Still, there is more to realism than just damage physics. In fact, if you REALLY wanted realistic damage, one mistake and crash into the wall is likely to end your race. Honestly, I am not sure whether I WANT such realistic damage (or at least I hope GT5 gives me an option to control the effects of damage).

Firstclass: I see your point in comparing Forza2 to GT5: Prologue, but your comparison is even worse! Comparing GT4, a last generation racing game released on the PS2 years ago with Forza2 a next generation racing game released for the 360 a year ago? No wai.

I like Forza2. But like I said, the Forza series is a relative newcomer when you compare it to the pedigree Polyphony Digital has built with the Gran Turismo series. I can't wait to play GT5: Prologue for myself on April 15, but based on that video I linked (and tons of others) the game is looking to be amazingly realistic (except for the lack of damage of course, whch admittedly sucks).
Damage was only just one thing I mentioned, and Forza's damage is pretty realistic. I wrecked my car the other day and the engine started missing. If you hit the front end, expect your alignment to be out. Granted it's probably not PERFECT realism because too much would drive people away, but it's good. I really do hope GT5 does have damage becuase I think they have one last chance to be consider a real driving sim.

I think you're too caught up on the graphics, which is the only thing GT has or has ever had on Forza 2. I don't care if GT had been around for the last 50 years, it still isn't as realistic of a sim driving and physics wise as Forza 2.

There really isn't a comparison to Forza on the PS3. GT compares to PGR, not Forza.
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      04-01-2008, 10:26 PM   #30
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I have a 360 and a PS3 and a Wii, and i've had the asian version of GT Prologue since late december. GT5 is leaps and bounds more realistic than GT3 or GT4. It's borderline revolutionary. To me, it could be a sole reason why the PS3 > 360. I like my 360 because of the way xbox live lends itself to shooters and multiplayer. However, with the big franchise Halo series wrapping up, i'm not sure how it's going to hold up to the combination of Metal Gear and GT. Let's not forget that GT3 has still outsold xbox and xbox 360 by itself and is still the best selling game outside of 2 mario's and a GTA. It will move a lot of consoles.

Comparing system to system, the blu-ray makes buying it a pretty big no brianer. I like my systems as game systems just about equally at this point. But with the halo frenzy being over, my natural bias after 10 years towards the PS controller, and seeing GTPrologue in 1080p, one is starting to really overtake the other. Throw in blu-ray, and it's kind of a closed case.

For the shooter fan or multiplayer fan, the 360 will always remain the answer, but maintaining that lead against the empires that are blu-ray and gran turismo will likely be biting off more than 360 can chew. It should be a much closer race than last gen though.


And while i'm over in offtopic.... people are using damage as an argument as to forza's superiority? Oh, and need for speed prostreet is better too, i'm guessing? Having lines on the road that tell you when to brake and which line to take make the game so much more realistic, I swear. I like forza. I like forza a lot. But forza's fanboyism is pretty ridiculous. I'll say that forza 1 was a more realistic game than GT4. However, it wasn't as deep or as polished. I'll give it the win because of its realism though. But forza 2 was NOT an upgrade from forza 1. For those of us who died waiting for it, it was actually a pretty big letdown. For those of us who've been playing GT5P for the past 3 months, we'll tell you that it is anything BUT a disappointment.

Generally, the people who call GT unrealistic are the people that sit there driving an automatic with traction and stability left at a novice level wondering why the game is so easy.
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      04-01-2008, 10:39 PM   #31
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Haha, yeah, Forza 2 blows GT away in realism. The only thing GT is more real about is the fact that it looks more real. Whoopie. I'd much rather the realism of driving than pretty graphics.
I wonder if people are sad they have 360s?.. because I have a 360 and want a ps3... STILL TO THIS DAY I PLAY PS2 - GT4... So Hmmm, maybe I need to switch it up.


BUT!!! I love online multiplayer shooters
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      04-01-2008, 10:42 PM   #32
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this is how i look at it:
PS3 = GT5
xbox != GT5

PS3 wins
this quote is full of win
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      04-01-2008, 10:58 PM   #33
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I have a 360 and a PS3 and a Wii, and i've had the asian version of GT Prologue since late december. GT5 is leaps and bounds more realistic than GT3 or GT4. It's borderline revolutionary. To me, it could be a sole reason why the PS3 > 360. I like my 360 because of the way xbox live lends itself to shooters and multiplayer. However, with the big franchise Halo series wrapping up, i'm not sure how it's going to hold up to the combination of Metal Gear and GT. Let's not forget that GT3 has still outsold xbox and xbox 360 by itself and is still the best selling game outside of 2 mario's and a GTA. It will move a lot of consoles.

Comparing system to system, the blu-ray makes buying it a pretty big no brianer. I like my systems as game systems just about equally at this point. But with the halo frenzy being over, my natural bias after 10 years towards the PS controller, and seeing GTPrologue in 1080p, one is starting to really overtake the other. Throw in blu-ray, and it's kind of a closed case.

For the shooter fan or multiplayer fan, the 360 will always remain the answer, but maintaining that lead against the empires that are blu-ray and gran turismo will likely be biting off more than 360 can chew. It should be a much closer race than last gen though.


And while i'm over in offtopic.... people are using damage as an argument as to forza's superiority? Oh, and need for speed prostreet is better too, i'm guessing? Having lines on the road that tell you when to brake and which line to take make the game so much more realistic, I swear. I like forza. I like forza a lot. But forza's fanboyism is pretty ridiculous. I'll say that forza 1 was a more realistic game than GT4. However, it wasn't as deep or as polished. I'll give it the win because of its realism though. But forza 2 was NOT an upgrade from forza 1. For those of us who died waiting for it, it was actually a pretty big letdown. For those of us who've been playing GT5P for the past 3 months, we'll tell you that it is anything BUT a disappointment.

Generally, the people who call GT unrealistic are the people that sit there driving an automatic with traction and stability left at a novice level wondering why the game is so easy.
Haha, the funniest part is how no one has said "damage is what makes forza better" except for the people arguing for GT. I mentioned that it's something that's necessary for a driving sim, but I also mentioned a number of other things. I didn't use it as my argument. However, since the truth IS that Forza has far superior physics, you ignore that part and just reply to my comment about the damage. You can say whatever you want, but the bottom line is, GT 1-4 do not compare to the level of realism on the physics side of the game to Forza. Will GT5? Who knows, not you or I, we'll have to see. I tend to doubt it since that's what Forza 2 focused on rather than graphics which is what GT5 has focused on, but I'd love it if it was. And what does having driving assist lines have to do with anything? I'm not even sure what you're getting at with that.

You GT guys need to stop getting so defensive. I've never even said GT wasn't realistic. Sure, it's very realistic, but it's still not as realistic as Forza, and that's what some of us like. Perhaps it's realistic enough for you, and the graphics makes it the winner for you. Fine, then be happy with what you have. I'm not really even sure what the argument is since there really isn't one. Of the games released to date, Forza 2 is more realistic in it's driving, and GT is more realistic in it's graphics. The entire GT community has been incredibly defensive since Forza came out, and I think that's a great compliment to Forza.

Either way, they are two different games, on two different systems, play what you like and be happy with it. They are both incredible games.
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      04-01-2008, 11:13 PM   #34
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Damage was only just one thing I mentioned, and Forza's damage is pretty realistic. I wrecked my car the other day and the engine started missing. If you hit the front end, expect your alignment to be out. Granted it's probably not PERFECT realism because too much would drive people away, but it's good. I really do hope GT5 does have damage becuase I think they have one last chance to be consider a real driving sim.

I think you're too caught up on the graphics, which is the only thing GT has or has ever had on Forza 2. I don't care if GT had been around for the last 50 years, it still isn't as realistic of a sim driving and physics wise as Forza 2.

There really isn't a comparison to Forza on the PS3. GT compares to PGR, not Forza.
Lol, you've made all those conclusions without even playing the new GT5: Prologue for the PS3? It's not even out in the U.S. yet and you have already decided that Forza2 is the more realistic game? And don't tell me you have a PS3 and imported the game from Japan...

Just because the current generation Forza2 for the 360 may have been better than the last generation Gran Turismo 3 and 4 for the PS2 (doh) doesn't mean that it will automatically be better than the current generation Gran Turismo 5 for the PS3 even before that game is released...

Edit: I agree with your last comment. Both look to be great games. Let's see if GT5: Prologue is as good as it's billed out to be. Or as good as it looks on that video I linked above...
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      04-01-2008, 11:30 PM   #35
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Haha, the funniest part is how no one has said "damage is what makes forza better" except for the people arguing for GT. I mentioned that it's something that's necessary for a driving sim, but I also mentioned a number of other things. I didn't use it as my argument. However, since the truth IS that Forza has far superior physics, you ignore that part and just reply to my comment about the damage. You can say whatever you want, but the bottom line is, GT 1-4 do not compare to the level of realism on the physics side of the game to Forza. Will GT5? Who knows, not you or I, we'll have to see. I tend to doubt it since that's what Forza 2 focused on rather than graphics which is what GT5 has focused on, but I'd love it if it was. And what does having driving assist lines have to do with anything? I'm not even sure what you're getting at with that.

You GT guys need to stop getting so defensive. I've never even said GT wasn't realistic. Sure, it's very realistic, but it's still not as realistic as Forza, and that's what some of us like. Perhaps it's realistic enough for you, and the graphics makes it the winner for you. Fine, then be happy with what you have. I'm not really even sure what the argument is since there really isn't one. Of the games released to date, Forza 2 is more realistic in it's driving, and GT is more realistic in it's graphics. The entire GT community has been incredibly defensive since Forza came out, and I think that's a great compliment to Forza.

Either way, they are two different games, on two different systems, play what you like and be happy with it. They are both incredible games.
But I DO know. That's my entire point. GT4 Prologue drove no differently from GT4, and i'm guessing that GT5 prologue will not drive any differently than GT5. And i've played GT5 prologue for at least 30 hours at this point. It feels vastly different from its predecessors.
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      04-02-2008, 02:44 AM   #36
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I've got both systems and both games - In my opinion - Forza2 is the better of the 2 as a car sim although GT5 looks better. This wasn't supposed to be GT vs Forza though - guess it was kind of bound to happen though - being a car forum and all.

I use professional physics and no aids on GT5 - it's still arcadey - I can run into another car with a closing speed of 60mph and nothing happens. My car doesn't get deflected - the "hit" cars don't either. It's just not "real" IMO. Yes I know we are discussing a game

GT5 is easy to play - you can just drive along the barriers (as if they are coated with silicone) at full tilt until the later races when penalties are introduced.
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Generally, the people who call GT unrealistic are the people that sit there driving an automatic with traction and stability left at a novice level wondering why the game is so easy.
Play both - Forza is the more realistic driving simulator. I've backed up my thoughts but funnily enough, I've not been quoted on them - I wonder why?

I'm no fanboy - I have both systems - I also have 2 PS2's, dreamcast, had a Wii - got rid of it.

At the end of the day - the conclusion is this is all personal preference. Arguing on the internet etc etc etc.
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      04-02-2008, 07:09 AM   #37
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I agree with 1stnewcar. You guys do whatever you want. Like I said, the GT community has been incredibly defensive since Forza came out, and you guys are perfect examples. You guys continue to argue that GT5 will have better physics with one person's simple argument of "it feels different". If you'll notice I never even tried to make this an argument, I just said, Forza has better physics, GT has better graphics, which, until proven otherwise, is true. The GT guys get defensive and say "Well.... we have a 5th version of our game, not including all the little spin offs they did, and it's not even out yet, but it'll probably be better!". This is exactly what I've been saying. Forza has always been a more realistic driver, and GT has been a more realistic looker, maybe GT5 will change that, it remains to be seen. Until then, Forza games continue to have better physics. I'm not sure where the argument comes from.
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      04-02-2008, 08:18 AM   #38
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The argument comes from you trying to make what is a matter of opinion, a matter of fact. It is your opinion that Forza has better physics and is the more realistic driving simulator. You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but simply having that opinion does not automatically make it a fact that can no longer be argued.

Indeed, most reviews that I have read on the PAL version of GT5: Prologue disagree with you. As 1stnewcar said, at the end of the day it's all personal preference.

If you have access to a PS3, rent it when it comes out on the 15th and give it a chance. I'd love to hear all opinions before I drop ~$350 on the game and the G25 wheel...
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      04-02-2008, 08:34 AM   #39
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The argument comes from you trying to make what is a matter of opinion, a matter of fact. It is your opinion that Forza has better physics and is the more realistic driving simulator. You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but simply having that opinion does not automatically make it a fact that can no longer be argued.

Indeed, most reviews that I have read on the PAL version of GT5: Prologue disagree with you. As 1stnewcar said, at the end of the day it's all personal preference.

If you have access to a PS3, rent it when it comes out on the 15th and give it a chance. I'd love to hear all opinions before I drop ~$350 on the game and the G25 wheel...
Ugh, that's my point, it's NOT opinion. It's fact that Forza tracks and takes into consideration MANY more variables to make the driving experience more realistic. I'm not discussing future games that have been hyped by game makers and fanboys, I'm talking what's on the table now. I very clearly said that GT5's physics remain to be seen. I'm sure that GT5 has very good physics, none of the GT games have had bad physics, but Forza has just had better, fact, not opinion.

This is the bar for GT to reach. A newcomer has come in and smacked them in the face and said "Hey, we can do this better than you.". Now we await the GT team's response. I certainly hope it's a good one, but until it's actually out, I'm not taking opinions from the game developers or people in Japan playing in. Let's be completely honest, the Japanese are the biggest Playstation fanboys in the world. They practically live their life to talk shit about the 360. OF COURSE they will say it's better, along with everything else with a Sony name on it.

And I'm not saying this as a fan of one or another. I don't do fanboy stuff, I just pick what is best or what I like most. With the graphics of GT5 I would LOVE for it to have physics that compare to Forza and damage added to it. I'd love to try it when it comes out.
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      04-02-2008, 09:30 AM   #40
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Alright, let's just agree to disagree. It's clearly pointless to argue with you when you state that it's a FACT that Forza2 is better than anything else on the planet.
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      04-02-2008, 09:44 AM   #41
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Alright, let's just agree to disagree. It's clearly pointless to argue with you when you state that it's a FACT that Forza2 is better than anything else on the planet.


Fine by me.
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      04-02-2008, 01:48 PM   #42
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Anyways, getting back to the original topic, I would add as a "pro" for the PS3 that online play is free, whereas it will cost you $50 per year on the 360.

On the other hand a pro I would add for the 360 is that many multi-platform titles are using the 360 as the lead platform, which in the past has resulted in the multi-platform title playing and/or looking better on the 360. This is changing to some extent, however, as developers learn to develop on the PS3.
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      04-02-2008, 02:59 PM   #43
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oh btw some of you cant use the metal gear comment as it will being going on the 360
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      04-02-2008, 04:41 PM   #44
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oh btw some of you cant use the metal gear comment as it will being going on the 360
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