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      03-28-2008, 03:55 PM   #23
ganeil
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Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
The entire point is stabillizing the value of the dollar, 40% more income, and a set value of the dollar in gold would do such that. Also the 40%, more like 32% for people in this situation should boost many above the poverty line.

as far as regulating loans instead of corporations, what I mean is to hand out you must follow certain laws, not just financial service companies, but general loaning of money laws that would avoid the subprime crisis.

Honestly, I think that was the best set of ideas we had, i'm a lot more worried with the remaining candidates. Huckabee was my second favorite over Paul, but the fact is he doesnt believe in evolution which scares me.
The problem with the gold standard is quite simple - dramatic price fluctuations.

There are three basic things we want money to do: (1) convert freely into goods (including other monies), (2) maintain stability in prices domestically, and (3) maintain a stable relationship to other currencies. The problem is no system can accomplish all three.

Tying the value of a dollar to gold accomplishes 1 and 3 but not 2.

During the period we were under the gold standard our economy suffered periods of extreme inflation and deflation. Recessions when they occurred were deep and long. So if maintaining value with foreign currencies is your primary motivation then it is the system for you.

I took you as a libertarian of sorts until I read your second paragraph. I would have thought that the libertarian position was that the government should have absolutely no interest in what I do with my own money. Who I want to led it to or the terms under which I lend it.
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      03-28-2008, 04:00 PM   #24
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Checks and balances are easily defeated by our current administration, a republican supreme court with 5 Bush family chosen members, and increased power of the executive branch. The checks and balances in the constitution work, but unfortunately we are so distorted from that reality that anything is possible.
If the Supreme Court is under the control of the Bush family, how do you explain rulings such as last week's Medellin case?

I tend to sympathize with (small "l") libertarians as I believe the federal government has grown beyond its constitutional limits but it is exactly this paranoid, conspiracy nonsense that will keep them on the sidelines.
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      03-28-2008, 04:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
Lose the IRS, lose the Fed, regulate how money is loaned, not the cooperations. Also possibly allow conflicting currencies, gold, to stabilize the dollar. It's all in plain english on this nice little document I like to call the constitution.
Some of that sounds a lot like the Constitution Party.
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      03-28-2008, 06:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
The problem with the gold standard is quite simple - dramatic price fluctuations.

There are three basic things we want money to do: (1) convert freely into goods (including other monies), (2) maintain stability in prices domestically, and (3) maintain a stable relationship to other currencies. The problem is no system can accomplish all three.

Tying the value of a dollar to gold accomplishes 1 and 3 but not 2.

During the period we were under the gold standard our economy suffered periods of extreme inflation and deflation. Recessions when they occurred were deep and long. So if maintaining value with foreign currencies is your primary motivation then it is the system for you.

I took you as a libertarian of sorts until I read your second paragraph. I would have thought that the libertarian position was that the government should have absolutely no interest in what I do with my own money. Who I want to led it to or the terms under which I lend it.
The global move from species is what did this originally, the reason gold changes in value is mainly because of the value of currency, its not restoring specie, just making a competing currency that will secure the value, and dont print any more money.

We cannot go back to before Hamilton, we rely on the national banks too much, I understand that. Due to that exception certain things must work to control how these agencies run, just like any other agency. Government regulations on the way money is loaned is necessary to run a government agency correct? why not make private banks follow the same standard by making the rule universal? It's because of the way our banks our set up now, losing the fed would be nice, but its not as realistic as you would think.
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      03-28-2008, 06:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
If the Supreme Court is under the control of the Bush family, how do you explain rulings such as last week's Medellin case?

I tend to sympathize with (small "l") libertarians as I believe the federal government has grown beyond its constitutional limits but it is exactly this paranoid, conspiracy nonsense that will keep them on the sidelines.
What do you have against Libertarians? What is wrong with philosophy sir? Is it ignorant to understand the basic principles of government and the god given rights of life, liberty, and property?

Nothing is nonsense sir, anything is possible, once you lose sight of the roots completely you already have problems. I am not for big government, nor Big Brother. Right now we are being faced with the beginning of the possibility of that, it's been a process of 200 years and anyone whom knows roman history, whom knows how corruption and greed control government, and knows how nuts some of these people are would be worried.

I'm not going to sign over my natural rights just because I should "trust" my government. Every time they ask us to trust them the fucking fail, why should I trust them to regulate themselves. The people give their governments power, governments should fear their people not vice-versa.
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      03-28-2008, 06:20 PM   #28
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Some of that sounds a lot like the Constitution Party.
I dont agree with a lot of the constitution, perhaps because I dont like Russueao, but I do agree with the locke parts. Jefferson knew his stuff and saved us from foreign banks until 1918, but it's not perfect, and nothing is. It would be nice to go back to those roots, but it does need to change for technology, but in a completely different direction.

Socialism anyone? (jk)
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      03-28-2008, 08:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
I dont agree with a lot of the constitution, perhaps because I dont like Russueao, but I do agree with the locke parts. Jefferson knew his stuff and saved us from foreign banks until 1918, but it's not perfect, and nothing is. It would be nice to go back to those roots, but it does need to change for technology, but in a completely different direction.

Socialism anyone? (jk)
scottwww is NOT talking about Constitution, but Constitution party!!!
Don't be fooled! Here's few issues from their platform:

AIDS
HIV / AIDS is a contagious disease which is dangerous to public health. It should not be treated as a civil rights issue. Under no circumstances should the federal government continue to subsidize activities which have the effect of encouraging perverted or promiscuous sexual conduct. Criminal penalties should apply to those whose willful acts of omission or commission place members of the public at risk of contracting HIV / AIDS.


Education
All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents.


Family
The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family, and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted. We are opposed to amending the U.S. Constitution for the purpose of defining marriage.

Religious Freedom
Article I of the Bill of Rights reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Our Constitution grants no authority to the federal government either to grant or deny the religious expressions of the people in any place.

Bunch of religious fundamentalists.
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      03-28-2008, 09:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
scottwww is NOT talking about Constitution, but Constitution party!!!
Don't be fooled! Here's few issues from their platform:

AIDS
HIV / AIDS is a contagious disease which is dangerous to public health. It should not be treated as a civil rights issue. Under no circumstances should the federal government continue to subsidize activities which have the effect of encouraging perverted or promiscuous sexual conduct. Criminal penalties should apply to those whose willful acts of omission or commission place members of the public at risk of contracting HIV / AIDS.


Education
All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents.


Family
The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family, and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted. We are opposed to amending the U.S. Constitution for the purpose of defining marriage.

Religious Freedom
Article I of the Bill of Rights reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Our Constitution grants no authority to the federal government either to grant or deny the religious expressions of the people in any place.

Bunch of religious fundamentalists.
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      03-28-2008, 11:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
eww
You're welcome.
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      03-29-2008, 12:56 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
I dont agree with a lot of the constitution, perhaps because I dont like Russueao, but I do agree with the locke parts. Jefferson knew his stuff and saved us from foreign banks until 1918, but it's not perfect, and nothing is. It would be nice to go back to those roots, but it does need to change for technology, but in a completely different direction.

Socialism anyone? (jk)
I believe you may be confusing the Constitution with the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was not present at the Constitutional Convention.
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      03-29-2008, 12:58 PM   #33
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democrats ftl.
...coming to a yard sign near you....
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      03-29-2008, 01:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
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What do you have against Libertarians? What is wrong with philosophy sir? Is it ignorant to understand the basic principles of government and the god given rights of life, liberty, and property?

Nothing is nonsense sir, anything is possible, once you lose sight of the roots completely you already have problems. I am not for big government, nor Big Brother. Right now we are being faced with the beginning of the possibility of that, it's been a process of 200 years and anyone whom knows roman history, whom knows how corruption and greed control government, and knows how nuts some of these people are would be worried.

I'm not going to sign over my natural rights just because I should "trust" my government. Every time they ask us to trust them the fucking fail, why should I trust them to regulate themselves. The people give their governments power, governments should fear their people not vice-versa.
I have nothing against Libertarians except I believe they are deluding themselves if they believe they can make any impact politically as a political party. Ron Paul ran on the Libertarian Party presidential ticket in the 1988 general election and more recently in the Republican primaries. Ask yourself when his ideas got more exposure.

I do object to conspiracy theorists who have lost touch with reality. Black helicopter paranoids and 9/11 truthers seem drawn to the Libertarian Party and their presence serves to contaminate the whole party.
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      03-29-2008, 01:28 PM   #35
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I believe you may be confusing the Constitution with the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was not present at the Constitutional Convention.
Madison wrote it, Jefferson did influence the philosophy behind it and several of the processes in it.
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      03-29-2008, 01:29 PM   #36
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I have nothing against Libertarians except I believe they are deluding themselves if they believe they can make any impact politically as a political party. Ron Paul ran on the Libertarian Party presidential ticket in the 1988 general election and more recently in the Republican primaries. Ask yourself when his ideas got more exposure.

I do object to conspiracy theorists who have lost touch with reality. Black helicopter paranoids and 9/11 truthers seem drawn to the Libertarian Party and their presence serves to contaminate the whole party.
The bipartisan system is stupid thought...
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      03-29-2008, 01:36 PM   #37
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Can't vote for McCain because he will dump even more money into Iraq, and will go after Iran and Venezuela.
Can't vote Clinton because Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton isn't good, nor are her policies or way about doing things.
Can vote for Obama but he might do something stupid.
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      03-29-2008, 02:02 PM   #38
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" Let me give you three numbers that will put this economic asteroid into perspective: $200 billion, $14.1 trillion, and $53 trillion.

# $200 billion is the approximate total amount of write-downs announced so far as a result of the current credit crisis.

# $14.1 trillion is the size of the entire U.S. economy

# And $53 trillion is (drum roll please) the approximate size of this country's bill for the Social Security and Medicare promises we've made."

Thanks CNN for making me want to throw myself off a cliff...
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      03-29-2008, 02:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
scottwww is NOT talking about Constitution, but Constitution party!!!
Don't be fooled! Here's few issues from their platform:

AIDS
HIV / AIDS is a contagious disease which is dangerous to public health. It should not be treated as a civil rights issue. Under no circumstances should the federal government continue to subsidize activities which have the effect of encouraging perverted or promiscuous sexual conduct. Criminal penalties should apply to those whose willful acts of omission or commission place members of the public at risk of contracting HIV / AIDS.


Education
All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents.


Family
The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family, and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted. We are opposed to amending the U.S. Constitution for the purpose of defining marriage.

Religious Freedom
Article I of the Bill of Rights reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Our Constitution grants no authority to the federal government either to grant or deny the religious expressions of the people in any place.

Bunch of religious fundamentalists.
Seriously???

See this is why 90% of Americans shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. They DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE VOTING FOR! Myself included.

I end up without the time necessary to educate myself properly to intelligently vote for anything really. It's embarrassing but dammit, voting for "your Party" is retarded and is part of what is wrong with the country.

We have millions of idiots who are going to vote for Obama because he's well spoken, has a good public image, and yeah cause he's black. On the other side we have a similar collection of idiots voting "rethuglican" cause it's all they can think to do, and the candidate isn't black... It's pathetic.

There should be a pre-vote quiz right outside the polling locations, or as a preliminary step once in the booth. If you cannot answer some basic questions about the who what where and why of some basic issues? You do not get to vote...

Anyhoo I'm going to go throw rocks at hippies...
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      03-29-2008, 02:13 PM   #40
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Can't vote for McCain because he will dump even more money into Iraq, and will go after Iran and Venezuela.
Can't vote Clinton because Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton isn't good, nor are her policies or way about doing things.
Can vote for Obama but he might do something stupid.
I agree to an extent though ALL of the canditates are going to inherit additional years in Iraq. As for Iran, I don't think anyone other than Bush would consider moving against Iran.

Obama might do something stupid, but I at least sort of get the impression that his "stupid" move would at least be honest.
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      03-29-2008, 11:06 PM   #41
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good luck to all finding the perfect president.

as for me, i'll vote for what's best in the lot.
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      03-30-2008, 11:38 AM   #42
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Can't vote for McCain because he will dump even more money into Iraq, and will go after Iran and Venezuela.
Can't vote Clinton because Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton isn't good, nor are her policies or way about doing things.
Can vote for Obama but he might do something stupid.
G. Dub has done almost everything stupid.
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      03-31-2008, 04:01 PM   #43
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Obama lost my vote a long long time ago.
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      03-31-2008, 04:10 PM   #44
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Can't vote for McCain because he will dump even more money into Iraq, and will go after Iran and Venezuela.
Can't vote Clinton because Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton isn't good, nor are her policies or way about doing things.
Can vote for Obama but he might do something stupid.
What policy differences do you see between Hillary and Obama?
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