BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Race Precision Motorsport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-01-2008, 01:25 AM   #265
enigma
Captain
 
Drives: E92 M3 and Elise
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Land of the Microchip

Posts: 689
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
You do realize that the "company line" from both BMW and Ferrari is that their high end cars such as the M3 and 599 will be faster around most circuits with most of the "fancy electronics" turned on? As well the M3 should probably be in EDC = normal rather than sport for the best lap times. The point is that the systems now have such a fast response time, offer enough slip/yaw to be useful and can actually help the car and driver by controlling brakes individually. Again just to be clear this is all my understanding based on listening/interviews/etc. not personal experience with these cars.
There is a reason tha traction control is banned in many motorsports. When people can run a race TC system, they do.

For stability control, I am less convinced.

I do think the concept of active roll stabilization is awesome. I wish the M3 had it. As is I called a sway bar fabricator today and will have to go the conventional route for now.
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
enigma is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2008, 02:05 AM   #266
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
You do realize that the "company line" from both BMW and Ferrari is that their high end cars such as the M3 and 599 will be faster around most circuits with most of the "fancy electronics" turned on? As well the M3 should probably be in EDC = normal rather than sport for the best lap times. The point is that the systems now have such a fast response time, offer enough slip/yaw to be useful and can actually help the car and driver by controlling brakes individually. Again just to be clear this is all my understanding based on listening/interviews/etc. not personal experience with these cars.

I wholeheartedly agree that more crude/slow/primitive systems hamper serious performance driving rather than help and this I know from both direct and indirect evidence.
I would like to add to this that after sampling the F430 in comparison to the F360 it's amazing how much electronics have come on. Sure in the right hands on a familiar track a pro will be quicker with everything turned off but would-be trackday drivers and semi-pros I would doubt any of them were better the time set with the electronics on 'race' mode in an F430 in comparison to them with it off.

I never got to sample the new M3's M-Dynamic mode on a track, only briefly on the road so can't really give a valid opinion but based on that brief drive I doubt it's in the same league as that of the F430.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2008, 09:46 AM   #267
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
At 10/10ths, shifting means loss of control, perhaps temporarily. At 9/10ths, it's a piece of cake.

PS - I have yet to experience a vehicle where stability control doesn't kill lap times, so I always disable it.
I don't think we have driven the same tracks so we don't have a common frame of reference in this regard. Obviously with a long straight, you are going to make compromises so you get the best run on the corner before the straight.

At Mosport, there are a lot of long high speed sweepers where you enter hot and use the throttle to balance and depending on gearing a person is tempted to shift.


Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
You do realize that the "company line" from both BMW and Ferrari is that their high end cars such as the M3 and 599 will be faster around most circuits with most of the "fancy electronics" turned on? As well the M3 should probably be in EDC = normal rather than sport for the best lap times. The point is that the systems now have such a fast response time, offer enough slip/yaw to be useful and can actually help the car and driver by controlling brakes individually. Again just to be clear this is all my understanding based on listening/interviews/etc. not personal experience with these cars.

I wholeheartedly agree that more crude/slow/primitive systems hamper serious performance driving rather than help and this I know from both direct and indirect evidence.

MDM on the M5 / M6s is not intrusive at all. You can get wheelspin and a bit of a drift, this is unlike the earlier "binary" BMW systems.

I really have not had any need to turn DSC off at the track.

When I went to the 2 day M school, I was beating around M5 / M6s in the wet and even then MDM wasn't interfering and I don't think I felt it engage in the dry.....completely different than the Z4M that I was also driving.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2008, 11:16 AM   #268
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
I really have not had any need to turn DSC off at the track.

When I went to the 2 day M school, I was beating around M5 / M6s in the wet and even then MDM wasn't interfering and I don't think I felt it engage in the dry.....completely different than the Z4M that I was also driving.
TB,

I'm interested in your findings of the Z4M as I do have a bit of experience of them on the track, both radster and coupe. Please tell.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2008, 12:09 PM   #269
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
TB,

I'm interested in your findings of the Z4M as I do have a bit of experience of them on the track, both radster and coupe. Please tell.

I wouldn't like to crash in it...too small and cramped. Very responsive, I used the Z4M to win the "King Rat" desgination (fastest guy in the wet doing figure 8s).

Very nice to drive, neutral for the most part with a bit of snappish oversteer characteristics. Very quick and responsive steering.

People in my run group were alot slower using 6MT that SMG, using me as a constant.

Nice car....great track toy....needs more power.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2008, 02:39 PM   #270
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
I wouldn't like to crash in it...too small and cramped. Very responsive, I used the Z4M to win the "King Rat" desgination (fastest guy in the wet doing figure 8s).

Very nice to drive, neutral for the most part with a bit of snappish oversteer characteristics. Very quick and responsive steering.

People in my run group were alot slower using 6MT that SMG, using me as a constant.

Nice car....great track toy....needs more power.
It's a much better track tool and a road car, while the nose is very lively on the road, on the track it becomes very precise. While you found the chassis neutral I found to tail happy but in a very controllable way, even more so than the E46 M3 and being seated so close to the rear axle only multiplied this effect.

A fun track car but not something I would ever want on the road.

P.S.
Needs more power?

I think it's one of the best judged M cars for power that the chassis can cope with. Also I doubt it would shine anyway as well on the ring as it would do on a traditional race track, it's just too bumpy.

Does anyone know it's time on Hockenhiem and the ring to see if my guess is right.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST