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      03-23-2008, 04:55 PM   #155
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> Try contacting some newspapers in their area.

Husker Group is a rather significant advertiser in Lincoln media. I'm betting
that the media will decline to pursue the matter rather than risk a revenue
stream.

Probably worthwhile contacting NE clubs of all enthusiat marques: BMW, Mini,
Jag, Corvette, F-body, Miata, Mustang, street rods ... ad naseum.
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      03-23-2008, 04:59 PM   #156
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i still cant believe that whole auto blog thing worked. i've submitted things to them before with no luck..i guess they really do go through every tip they get!

im really excited to see how this thing is gonna work out for you Dooma, best of luck!
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      03-23-2008, 05:00 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
I know this is my first post, and the only thing I have in common, apparently, with any of you is that I own a BMW, which I enjoy driving.

But, as far as this situation goes, here is my take: I find the whole ordeal disgusting. I've been to a restaurant where the waiter gave me change for $100 when I paid with a $50. Naturally I returned the money. I've been at the bank where the teller gave me more money than the check I cashed. I obviously returned the money.

Here, we have a very analogous situation. You were bidding on the car with full knowledge that the vehicle was listed for less than invoice. You knew it was most likely a mistake. Did you e-mail the lister to find out if they intended to sell it under invoice? No, you wanted to profit from the mistake of another.

Now you want to post in here about how the dealer "screwed" you. Although I don't know what they have "cost" you in refusing to "honor" what was obviously a mistake on part of an agent of their organization. Rather than sympathize with the poor bastard who might lose his job in this worsening economy, all you can do is pout and pitch a tantrum like a 4 year old.

Seriously, and what is worse the constant support from others in here who believe that you are somehow "owed" that deal. Am I the only person who find you a morally reprehensible spoiled brat?

No wonder I never get anywhere in this world. I'm too worried about morals, ethics, principles, empathy and the other useless traits that tend to keep good guys down.

Good luck with your purchase, I hope you get your car, but it won't be worth what you paid for it, namely your humanity.
I really wanted to be civil about this, but all signs point to you being a moron. You obviously have no clue how auctions work (just like Laszlo doesn't 'get it' either).

Your examples of being at the bank and getting more money back is not the same scenario at all. My guess is that 99.99% of the people that are backing the original poster here would also return the extra money to the bank teller as you said you would, but in the ebay auction, people go there looking for a good deal. As others have pointed out, the dealership was banking on a feeding frenzy and it didn't happen. Their auction strategy failed. I would not even give them the benefit of the doubt that they forgot to set a reserve amount. They most likely planned to start the bidding at $60k and never thought for a second that there would be only a single bid. Their strategy failed. Simple as that.

If I were at a Sotheby's auction bidding on a painting and the gavel drops and I won the auction, you can be assured that I will be the owner of that painting no matter what. As I am bidding, I guarantee that I will NOT be wondering if the seller is getting less than the painting is worth. All I care about is that the gavel has dropped and that means I now own the painting. It was the seller's responsibility to work out those details before taking the painting to the live auction. Get it? Good.
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      03-23-2008, 05:01 PM   #158
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Good Luck Dooma ! You got all the support you need and I think its just a matter of time until this dealership realizes what a hole they got theirselves into !
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      03-23-2008, 05:01 PM   #159
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Saw this on autoblog and am just posting to say good luck and I hope you get what you won and the dealership what they deserve. I have a feeling come Monday morning you'll hear a very different tune from the dealership, if they have any hope of saving face.

Also I would make sure BMW USA hears about this incident. This dealership's actions are giving the entire company's name and reputation a bad image. It looks like their contact information is on this page http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/ContactUs/ but I bet you would get faster results if someone can find the e-mail address of the CEO Tom Purves.

edit: From this forum post it looks like his e-mail is tom.purves@bmwusa.com. Be polite and let him know what this dealer's actions are doing to the company.
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      03-23-2008, 05:08 PM   #160
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Good luck brother! If all else fails, introduce them to a buddy of mine: HIS name is Charles Norris. The name drop alone will get you that sweet ride.
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      03-23-2008, 05:11 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Right, they didn't add a reserve so they owe you a car. It must have been a posting error.
^^^ Doesn't understand eBay auctions, or works for a dealership.
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      03-23-2008, 05:17 PM   #162
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Just wanted to lend my voice to the rapidly snowballing crowd. I'm so glad that the nonchalance with which dealers treat deals is finally getting some long-deserved negative attention.
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      03-23-2008, 05:20 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronzprinz View Post
i believe the "buy now" feature is automatically the lowest price you can get the item for.
No, it's not. Not even close.

"Buy It Now" is simply a way for an item's seller to offer a way for an impatient buyer to skip the whole auction process by paying a premium price to simply buy the item outright. The Buy It Now price is a compromise to avoid the gamble of an auction: When you Buy It Now you are paying a premium to ensure you win i.e. to ensure you don't end up in a bidding war that possibly ends up at an even higher price, or get sniped at the last minute, or any of the other possibilities. You do it to avoid the negative outcomes of an auction, but you also give up the possibility of getting it for less as happens when there is no interest. Like what happened here: No interest, very few bids, low price, awesome win situation for the highest bidder.

None of this has anything to do with the Reserve price. If the item didn't meet the reserve price IT WOULDN'T HAVE A WINNER AT ALL. HE WON THEREFORE THE RESERVE PRICE WAS MET.
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      03-23-2008, 05:26 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moog55 View Post
I really wanted to be civil about this, but all signs point to you being a moron. You obviously have no clue how auctions work (just like Laszlo doesn't 'get it' either).
Well, if that helps you sleep at night, great. I could provide evidence that I am decidedly not a moron, but I don't really care what your opinion of me is. I just felt it was my duty to provide a moral balance to your decidedly selfish world view.

I hope you do get a lot of exposure from this. It will be well deserved. Now, back to the stamping of feet.
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      03-23-2008, 05:28 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
Well, if that helps you sleep at night, great. I could provide evidence that I am decidedly not a moron, but I don't really care what your opinion of me is. I just felt it was my duty to provide a moral balance to your decidedly selfish world view.

I hope you do get a lot of exposure from this. It will be well deserved. Now, back to the stamping of feet.
Your feet must hurt by now.
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      03-23-2008, 05:33 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
I know this is my first post, and the only thing I have in common, apparently, with any of you is that I own a BMW, which I enjoy driving.
So how much did you pay for your BMW? Did you walk in and pay MSRP or did you negotiate? No body really KNOWS how much the car costs because of all the variables that go into it...dealer holdbacks, interest on inventory, salesman bonuses, quota's ect..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
But, as far as this situation goes, here is my take: I find the whole ordeal disgusting. I've been to a restaurant where the waiter gave me change for $100 when I paid with a $50. Naturally I returned the money. I've been at the bank where the teller gave me more money than the check I cashed. I obviously returned the money.
Here your analolgy fails because the waiter did not know that he gave you incorrect change. The car dealer knew full well they did not offer a reserve price and advertised as such. They were using the fact that the auction was a no reserve auction to profit. It just happened to backfire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
Here, we have a very analogous situation. You were bidding on the car with full knowledge that the vehicle was listed for less than invoice.
And the dealer knew that full well also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
You knew it was most likely a mistake. Did you e-mail the lister to find out if they intended to sell it under invoice? No, you wanted to profit from the mistake of another.
It was not a MISTAKE. It was intentional on their part. And they have pulled this non-sense before. Please review their ebay feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
Now you want to post in here about how the dealer "screwed" you. Although I don't know what they have "cost" you in refusing to "honor" what was obviously a mistake on part of an agent of their organization. Rather than sympathize with the poor bastard who might lose his job in this worsening economy, all you can do is pout and pitch a tantrum like a 4 year old.
The only terminable offense is dishonesty. He was not dishonest until after the auction...when he lied about why he was not selling the car. The reason that he gave was that a mistake occurred. There was no mistake. Now he is a liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
Seriously, and what is worse the constant support from others in here who believe that you are somehow "owed" that deal. Am I the only person who find you a morally reprehensible spoiled brat?
YES!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
No wonder I never get anywhere in this world. I'm too worried about morals, ethics, principles, empathy and the other useless traits that tend to keep good guys down.
So please tell me how the dealer who WILLINGLY enters into an auction, WILLINGLY sets the minimum price low and WILLINGLY sets no reserve and then refuses to sell the car as PROMISED is the good guy and the buyer is the bad guy? I just cannot see your logic.


I think that you should be intellectually honest with yourself before you disparage others.
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      03-23-2008, 05:35 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
Well, if that helps you sleep at night, great. I could provide evidence that I am decidedly not a moron, but I don't really care what your opinion of me is. I just felt it was my duty to provide a moral balance to your decidedly selfish world view.
Wait, getting screwed by a dealership makes the buyer immoral?
The dealership set up the auction, they obviously knew what they were doing with the price (c.f. the auction's title), the bidding started at $60k, the dealership was watching the auction (and changing numbers at that), he won the auction... but you think he doesn't deserve the car? And on top of that you say he's childish/greedy/immoral? In the words of Lewis Black, "Logic eludes you."

Can an admin check this guy's IP to see if it matches for the Nebraska geographic area? Either that or there's a really dumb person in Tennessee...

Last edited by yacoub; 03-23-2008 at 06:12 PM.
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      03-23-2008, 05:37 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
Well, if that helps you sleep at night, great. I could provide evidence that I am decidedly not a moron, but I don't really care what your opinion of me is. I just felt it was my duty to provide a moral balance to your decidedly selfish world view.

I hope you do get a lot of exposure from this. It will be well deserved. Now, back to the stamping of feet.
The fact that you keep insisting that the original poster and the entire posting community here are "selfish" and "spoiled brats" is backing up my assessment of you.

If you think that you're somehow taking some moral high road, more power to you, but it's really attributed more to your inability to comprehend the mechanics of an auction compounded by your failure to draw proper analogies to assert your point of view.
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      03-23-2008, 05:37 PM   #169
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wut the eff
thats fucked
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      03-23-2008, 05:39 PM   #170
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Good luck getting your car. Sad to see that you're going to be leaving such a beautiful Lexus behind!
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      03-23-2008, 05:43 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooma350 View Post
Mooseman (Or Fil or Michael)
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine, but lets get a few thing straight.

1) The dealer, of their own volition decided to sell on an auction site called ebay. Its also of their own volition to set no reserve, and title their auction LOWEST M3 ON EBAY.
2) Said auction site works by placing bids. I didnt set the opening bid of 60000, The dealership did. And 60K isnt chump change son.
3) I am obligated to purchase at the auction ending cost. Do you think the dealer would let me off the hook if i put in a bid of 100K and it ended? HELL F-ING NO.
4) The dealer changed their BUY IT NOW twice, thru the course of the auction. Its obvious they were fishing for more bids.
5) The "poor guy" you referred to laughed in my face, telling me how his company is a "Multi-Billion daollar" company, and I didnt have a chance. So even if you are the said poor guy, I say you have only yourself to blame.

You seem to be under the impression that dealerships are non-profit, people loving humanitarian companies. They are in this to make money, and dont have your best interest at heart. Even a guy like you, mooseman. In fact, they love to sell cars to people so oblivious, such as yourself. Lastly, please dont blame your lack of success on others. Look in the mirror, its you.

PS Mooseman, I'd love to see your IP address and compare it to the one I have for the dealership, lol. Please continue to post!
I am fully aware of everything you posted, as I can both read and comprehend. But the simple fact of the matter is if the guy called "nervously" he obviously made a mistake in the post and probably was hoping he wouldn't run into the person he did.

Had it happened to me? I would have said "Hey, I thought that price was kinda low. Oh well, I'm not out anything." And they might have even offered me a discount on the vehicle I was looking for.

But, see, I'm a reasonable individual with the capacity to understand that corporations are big groups of people, people that make mistakes. And I don't try and crucify people every time they make one.

But, whatever. As for being from the dealership, don't kid yourself, I'm really an actual thinking human being, just like the poor bastard thats probably barely holding on to his job right now. But, remember this moment sometime in the future when you make a mistake and the world crashes in on you. Remember this and recall that what goes around comes around. Remember this and recall that you put some poor slob though hell because he screwed up the reserve price.

But, back to being a victim and pitching a fit. Ohh, the humanity!
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      03-23-2008, 05:43 PM   #172
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Fil Cantani is not the owner (principal), he's simply the General Manager of
the BMW store. I'm reasonably well connected with both GM and BMW
corporate. Getting the name/addr/home phone of the principal should take
me less than four [4] phone calls. Interested?

You should also insure that Husker's other GMs know that good ole Fil's store
is creating unwelcome attention. Nothing like peer humiliation every time the
Husker's GMs get together. <g>
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      03-23-2008, 05:43 PM   #173
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(edited out, nevermind.)

Support dooma!
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      03-23-2008, 05:45 PM   #174
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this is a bit more complicated than it appears:

the dealers contention is that a human mistake was made by not listing a 'reserve' ~ = to the BIN price....correct?

do we agree upon this?

now, if you go to a bank and a teller gives you too much by 'mistake', or a cash machine is programmed wrong by a human, or by mechanical fault and gives you too much cash, can you keep it? no, they will automatically deduct it from your account...the law allows them to do so...

same goes for a legal bid in construction...
if the bidder contends that he made an human error (math, etc.), and catches it, he has a right to withdraw that bid within a 3 day time frame...without penalty or bond consequences

the system is set-up to allow for honest mistakes, and to not be punished for them...
he did nothing 'wrong', he made a 'mistake'...
if it was willful, it's another matter...

good luck...legally I'm not sure you have a case...but you may be able to 'shame' them into capitulation...
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      03-23-2008, 05:48 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
I am fully aware of everything you posted, as I can both read and comprehend. But the simple fact of the matter is if the guy called "nervously" he obviously made a mistake in the post and probably was hoping he wouldn't run into the person he did.

Had it happened to me? I would have said "Hey, I thought that price was kinda low. Oh well, I'm not out anything." And they might have even offered me a discount on the vehicle I was looking for.

But, see, I'm a reasonable individual with the capacity to understand that corporations are big groups of people, people that make mistakes. And I don't try and crucify people every time they make one.

But, whatever. As for being from the dealership, don't kid yourself, I'm really an actual thinking human being, just like the poor bastard thats probably barely holding on to his job right now. But, remember this moment sometime in the future when you make a mistake and the world crashes in on you. Remember this and recall that what goes around comes around. Remember this and recall that you put some poor slob though hell because he screwed up the reserve price.

But, back to being a victim and pitching a fit. Ohh, the humanity!
Mooseman, read my post about how ebay works please. That explains it all. The seller entered a legally binding contract when they listed the car on EBAY with NO RESERVE. If they weren't willing to sell it for $60K then they should have had a reserve for what they WERE willing to sell it for. It isn't the buyer's problem whether or not the price allowed sufficient profit. If the converse had happened and he had gotten carried away in the feeding frenzy and bid $100K, do you REALLY think the dealer would have let HIM off the hook? "Oh, poor buyer bid too high, he made a mistake, we'll let it go".

These guys have evidently been selling on ebay for a while as per some other posts (I have no idea personally). they know how things work. Whether they made a mistake or not, as was pointed out they had ample opportunity to set a reserve, or EVEN TO SAY SOMETHING BEFORE THE AUCTION ENDED! They didn't. It's their problem.

And don't talk about the buyer being a baby. He and the dealer had a contract. He honored his end, why shouldn't they?
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      03-23-2008, 05:49 PM   #176
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From Autoblog:

Phil @ Mar 23rd 2008 3:34PM
Here's another contact person regarding this story. Nate Jenkins is the Associated Press contact person in Lincoln, his e-mail is njenkins@ap.org
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