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      03-21-2008, 08:51 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
I'm pretty sure when you have a BUY IT NOW set price you must EXCEED that price to actually win the product.

If the listing didn't have BUY IT NOW, then you'd have a case. Other than that, the bidding portion is only there to see if bidding can exceed the BUY IT NOW price.

Sorry dude. It's reality.

The guy should not have said it was a mistake. He or she doesn't know the eBay rules and gave you the wrong answer. He or she should have explained the rules to you.
100% inaccurate. As a successful eBay Powerseller let me clarify...

Buy It Now price (aka BIN) is exactly what the name states... the price you will pay for the item (shipping, tax, insurance may be extra.. always read auction terms carefully).

Sellers often create "hybrid" auctions which have a starting bid and a BIN price. Once the first bid is placed, the BIN option disappears (unless there is a reserve price which has not been met).

In the case of the e90 M3 auction there was no reserve set by the seller most likely because they wanted to draw attention/create competition in an attempt to sell the car at MSRP+. It's a chance they took and they lost. It happens everyday on eBay, sellers create listings at attractive prices hoping to sell at premiums and at the same time market their other listings. In this case the buyer was at the right place at the right time, but more importantly nobody else was there that was serious about purchasing the car.
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      03-21-2008, 08:52 PM   #46
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I concur, laszlo is wrong here.

Buy it now gives the buyer the option to end the auction immediately by using the "buy it now" option.

If the "buy it now" option is not utilized, then it is a normal ebay auction, starting at the opening asking price and ending when the auction expires. The highest bid at the expiration of the action is the winning bidder. Unless the reserve was not met, which is not the case in particular no reserve auction.
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      03-21-2008, 09:07 PM   #47
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Well, IMHO the BMW dealership should just have to put up with it and take a hit by selling it to you. But, i just spoke to my father who is always on eBay and he told me that having a Buy it Now on a item pretty much acts as a reserve(reinforcing what Laszlo said). That the buy it now is the lowest price they will sell at.Then again my father can be wrong...Hopefully he is because i believe that is complete BS.
Good luck and keep us the updates coming!

Last edited by knext21; 03-21-2008 at 09:10 PM. Reason: typo
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      03-21-2008, 09:13 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Buy It Now
When you see the Buy It Now icon next to a listing or see a Buy It Now price listed on an item page, you can get that item right away without waiting for an auction-style listing to end.


To purchase an item with Buy It Now:
Decide whether you're willing to buy the item for the Buy It Now price. Please remember, shipping and handling charges are not included in the Buy It Now price. You may need to contact the seller to determine the total price of the item. If the listing is a Pay Now and Buy It Now item, the seller requires immediate payment, so the shipping cost and other charges will be displayed in the listing description.

Click the Buy It Now button at the bottom of the item page and enter your User ID and password.

You'll see a Buy It Now confirmation message. From there, you can choose among the offered payment methods (PayPal, personal check, money order, and so on).

Pay for the item.

The seller ships it to you.

Tip: If you see an item has both a Buy It Now price and a bid price listed, it means you will need to act quickly! The Buy It Now price is available until the auction price has exceeded a price threshold or until the reserve price has been met.
Laszlo,

Sorry but your are wrong!!! That just means that the BIN will stay on the auction until the bid passes that threshold OR reserve price has been met. This auction was listed at 60K with NO RESERVE.

If you really want to prove yourself right (which won't happen)
Go bid on something that has no reserve and bid .01 less than the BIN See if the seller comes after you!
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      03-21-2008, 09:36 PM   #49
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As badly as I want the new M3, I can't stand the unethical practices of today's BMW dealer. This ebay fiasco is a prime example. BMWNA are you listening? Good luck to you OP...this is YOUR car.
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      03-21-2008, 09:39 PM   #50
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I was surprised at how badly they are rated by their local BBB. I'm surprised BMW NA would allow a dealer to keep its franchise.
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      03-21-2008, 09:41 PM   #51
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Laszlo, you're post (#50) of the ebay rules doesn't support your argument. In the case of the OP, the buy it now option was not used by the OP or anyone else. The OP won the auction as a traditional auction. In fact, the dealership is not even using your argument to refute his claim. They are saying it was a mistake.

Too bad for the dealership it's a legal sale.
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      03-21-2008, 09:46 PM   #52
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Laszlo, you are COMPLETELY wrong. I have over 800 feedback on eBay so I know the system damn well. The only way the dealership could back out of the deal would be only if they had a reserve, which they obviously didn't. I think everyone should help this guy out and call the dealership up and complain.
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      03-21-2008, 09:47 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickc View Post
It's a chance they took and they lost.
... and that's the bottom line.

Let's suppose for a millisecond that Laszlo is correct, BIN acts as the reserve. This is a lost cause.

Then:

1. Why eBay is still investigating this issue?
2. Why the dealer said "the price was a mistake" when apparently this auction tactic is completely planned and intentional?
3. Why suddenly an offer was given below the BIN price outside eBay if in fact the BIN is the reserve?
4. Why there is a "You won!" confirmation of this auction if the BIN was never exceeded?
5. Why this thread even exists if this was completely on purpose?

Last edited by Technic; 03-21-2008 at 11:07 PM.
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      03-21-2008, 11:46 PM   #54
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back to the topic at hand.....

OP - I think before you call the dealership again with an "empty" threat (as they will perceive it), you first need to take the advice of others here..... call BMWNA and the dealership's group manager and take it above them before you get into a phone-tag game with them giving you the run-around.

And rather than making "threats" to them with legal action or bad publicity, just go ahead and do it. Call & email the news & radio stations in the local area and give them your story and tell them the dealership is not abiding by Ebay's selling contract, as obviously you can see they've done this before from their past feedbacks (and on BBB's website). It's more than enough ammo for a news station to consider the story and to follow up on it, as long as you present the situation to them in the right way. If you choose to do this, you do NOT tell the dealership that you've gone around them or they will consider that a threat of action and definitely not sell you the car.

The real-world situation is, unless you spend time & money for legal action (which is just paperwork & filings - we do this on a daily basis), and ignoring any "contracts" with Ebay or anything else, they don't & won't have to sell you anything and tell you to f-off if they so choose to, and you'll be left with nothing but the sour experience to tell others about. And if you think about it, the dealership may consider taking your 1 bad situation and ignoring it just to save a few thousand on the sale of the M3. It sucks but that's life.
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      03-22-2008, 12:07 AM   #55
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Sucks OP but I agree with those who advise to give it to them full blast! Both barrells for that unethical BS. I'd give them one last chance and follow it up within 24hrs with a Fedex letter from someplace legal directing them to be in default of their legally binding eBay contract and to remedy the situation OR pay/sue for damages to include legal fees AND the sale of the vehicle at cost per auction when won! Then I'd go and pick up the car myself WITH the tv news to "capture" the story and ah ensure the correct respsonse and treatment of the new purchaser and his wonderful new car! I'd also let BMW NA and BMW AG know what I planned to do and basically make it so uncomfortable and profit losing for that particular dealership that they'll be happy to see you and your M3 drive off into the sunset!

Just have the car checked as soon as you get it back to CA to make sure they didn't leave you any unpleasant surprises! LOL

good luck!
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      03-22-2008, 12:37 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
The Buy It Now price is available until the auction price has exceeded a price threshold or until the reserve price has been met.[/b]
Exactly, you are making the case AGAINST your argument, this was a NO RESERVE auction. Once the first bid goes in, the BIN price disappears.

Just acknowledge that you are wrong and move on. The OP did everything correct and is getting the shaft from an unethical dealer.

The dealers error was by not setting a reserve. But, this was a risk that they took because NO RESERVE auctions tend to get more attention. So, they tried to use the "no reserve" to their advantage but got beat by an honest guy.
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      03-22-2008, 12:49 AM   #57
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Since speaking with the dealership and ebay, Ive contacted both BBB,BMW NA and Edmunds.com.

Hopefully, I'll hear from the Nebraska BBB next week. I also contacted BMW NA and opened a complaint against BMW of Lincoln. But im not counting on this action too much. Speaking from firsthand experience here, but unfortunately, there is little BMW NA, the manufacturer can do against the dealer in regards to sales situations. First job out of college was in consumer affairs at Nissan, and I hated these situations, cuz we were powerless. But one thing I can do, as one poster suggested is to continue placing this dealer in a negative light, which can be accomplished thru letters with CCs to the dealer, BMW NA, BBB, etc.

Also Contacted Edmunds.com, to see if there was any interest in this story.

Next week, I'll await to hear from Ebay, and contact some other resources (news, media, etc), and let people know whats going on. Oh, and Im going to have a lawyer buddy of mine draft a letter and send it off to the dealer.

I am hoping Ebay processes their investigation in a timely manner. Per ebay, dealer sales accounts are held to a higher standard, and if evidence of neglient sales practices is found the account will be suspended. This I think is a big deal for a large company such as the Husker Auto Group (7 dealerships). The Sales GM at BMW of Lincoln was also waiting to hear back from Ebay as well, so Im guessing they too take their ebay selling seriously (but apparently not serious enough).

Again, I want to thank everyone thats given me support on this thread. If I get the car, then all is right in the world. If not, then Im gonna make sure the dealer gets hell for this, so everyone knows of the unethical business practices at BMW of Lincoln. And I'll still get the M3, but in my preferred color/options.

Edit: To the dude who keeps claiming I didnt win the auction, I won, look at the page. So please, no more posts on what you feel is a BIN/reserve.
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      03-22-2008, 01:37 AM   #58
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I'm hoping you get the car! Best of luck to you!
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      03-22-2008, 02:49 AM   #59
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subscribed... can't wait to see the out come, hopefully the dealership goes down...
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      03-22-2008, 08:02 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooma350 View Post
Also Contacted Edmunds.com, to see if there was any interest in this story.
One other suggestion - hit autoblog.com too. They are always running ebay- related car stories, and other odd car stories about the little guy. They might run with it too.
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      03-22-2008, 08:30 AM   #61
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I am not a licensed attorney in the state of Nebraska, but I am in Texas. The Uniform Commercial Code has been adopted by every state in the United States (but for Louisiana), and this is simply a breach of contract, as most of you guys have noticed. An eBay contract is a legally enforceable contract, and the dealership should have delegated the authority and responsibility to list the M3 to an employee with knowledge and experience setting the terms. Salespeople, even those who do it online, have the vested authority to make sales, and thus the company that owns the dealership will be held responsible for the acts of their agents.

I wish I was in Nebraska. I would do it just for fun. I might even throw in a Deceptive Trade Practice claim, on which there would be treble damages and attorney's fees awarded. Throw in the words "Deceptive Trade" in your next conversation. Nebraska has a Uniform Deceptive Trade Practices Act.

87-302. (a) A person engages in a deceptive trade practice when, in the course of his or her business, vocation, or occupation, he or she:
(9) Advertises goods or services with intent not to sell them as advertised;

With regard to the BBB, they are really just an Alternative Dispute Resolution mechanism. They'll mediate your dispute, but it's not necessarily binding on the dealership. The dealership will only jeopardize their membership with the BBB if it turns in your favor and they do not honor the resolution (I do not know how much that means to them). I would recommend, if you have a mediation, that you go in fully prepared.
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      03-22-2008, 11:46 AM   #62
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I agree with the rest of the group..use legal maneuvers to obtain the winning bid price. I DO NOT think their "re-offer" of 65k+ is reasonable. I'm sure this is leavnig a bad taste in your mouth, but stick to your guns....it should fall in you favor.

Lazlo's comments
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      03-22-2008, 04:42 PM   #63
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I agree that the dealership should sell you the car at the specified price, but this is a no win situation. You are going to spend a lot of money chasing this down and negate any savings. Being a large dealership they probably have attorneys on staff so it does not cost them much to fight this.

The path that I would pursue is just have them sell you the car at invoice. You will have the best price in the country at that point and you are not asking them to take money out of their pockets. The dealership will probably be more amenable to this than selling the car for $60K
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      03-22-2008, 05:27 PM   #64
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Ask for invoice, no less.
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      03-22-2008, 06:23 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
Ask for invoice, no less.
Don't compromise. Go straight for what your auction ended at. I have no idea what invoice is on the car, but I feel that offering to settle for another price weakens your argument.
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      03-22-2008, 06:49 PM   #66
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If you decide to file suit, you might not be limited to filing your action in Nebraska. A colorable argument could be made that by posting the eBay ad, the dealership has personally availed itself to personal jurisdiction in California. This could be a strong bargaining point for you since if you are allowed to file suit in California, the dealership would be forced to hire California attorneys (at California rates) and defend itself in California. Also, California Business Code section 17200, et seq. may allow you to recover attorneys' fees and other damages if you can prove that the dealership engaged in fraudulent and/or unfair business practices. Good luck.
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