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      03-23-2008, 09:23 PM   #331
ArtPE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viobruin View Post
The seller never agreed to the deal? The seller is the one who made the offer by putting the item up for bid on eBay. It's not up to the seller to "agree." That power is vested solely within the buyer. The seller, of course, has the power to withdraw his or her offer prior to acceptance, but that never happened here because the auction closed.
the seller contends he made the offer in error, he never accepted the flawed offer...

it'll take a court to determine:
was there a contract
was there a mistake
is it enforceable
what are the damages

and probably much more to determine
juristiction
etc.

all for 6k$ ?

his best bet is the that the dealer chooses to negotiate
it will cost more to litigate, and the only winners will be the lawyers
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      03-23-2008, 09:23 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
the dealer has 6500 reasons not to honor it...

they can just sit back, and let him do all the work...

with the average attention span of 5 minutes this will be forgotten shortly...

hopefully they will step up and negotiate...
ebay is an auction website: An auction is the process of buying and selling goods by offering them up for bid, taking bids, and then selling the item to the winning bidder.

both parties are aware of the rules and the dealer should honor the sale.
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      03-23-2008, 09:23 PM   #333
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I just finished reading the entire thread. While I really doubt your chances of getting your car at $60k due to the ridiculous shit that goes on with ebay on a daily basis, I wish you the absolute best. We're all (well, most of us are) pulling for you.

As a suggestion, someone should really try contacting a local morning radio show. Where i'm from, nearly every show has a segment where they answer listeners calls and proceed to put the offender on blast in front of radio's largest daily audience.

Or if that doesn't work, send this link to your local Audi, Lexus, or MB dealership and see if they wont put you in a RS4, IS-F, or C63 at a good price just for pub. (and then send it to me, as it was my idea.)
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      03-23-2008, 09:25 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na335i View Post
ebay is an auction website: An auction is the process of buying and selling goods by offering them up for bid, taking bids, and then selling the item to the winning bidder.

both parties are aware of the rules and the dealer should honor the sale.
ebay states they are NOT an auction, not in the legal sense...

most states require a license to auction... http://www.dos.state.pa.us/bpoa/cwp/...=1104&q=432477

in fact PA is making ebay consignment sellers obtain a license...takes 1 year and some training
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      03-23-2008, 09:29 PM   #335
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Hi Dooma, Have been following this since seeing it on Autoblog earlier, very interesting. I'm coming at this a little differently than most of the other posters...... I'm a new car dealer. And I totally agree with you, it's your car. As long as you can stroke the check and live up to your side of 'the bargain', then the dealer must as well. Forget the arguments over the technicalities of eBay and all the various legalities: a deal's a deal.

The only advice I can give from decades of dealership experience would be the following:

Dooma, stick to your guns but take the high road. Be respectful, don't harrass or belittle. Assume they're going to sell it to you and start pushing them for delivery. Dealers (or most of them, anyway) are human and we're all more likely to work with the customer who works with us rather than one threatening us.

Fil, this guy has you right by the nuts. Take the hit, sell him the unit and get on with it. You're not losing much, if anything at all and the amount of negative NATIONAL publicity this has spawned is going to take you years and a fortune to overcome. I don't need to tell you about the importance of Customer Satisfaction Indexes, etc. The economic impact is far greater than you imagine at this point. Your factory guys are going to be pissed, your dealer principal is going to take a look at the big picture and be pissed, and your customer base..... well, you get the idea.

To the salesman who ran the eBay 'auction' for the store, ask for a transfer out to the wash bay. You made a run at this guy, and that's wrong. The new car business in general has evolved beyond these type of practices, and people of your ilk are not needed nor wanted.

and Mooseman, your argument is well presented, but I do wonder where you're coming from. I've had dozens of salemen work for me over the years and I'm just betting that you've put in your share of showroom hours. Make sure to hit Fil up for lunch tomorrow.

Good luck in all of this.
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      03-23-2008, 09:32 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
the seller contends he made the offer in error, he never accepted the flawed offer...

it'll take a court to determine:
was there a contract
was there a mistake
is it enforceable
what are the damages

and probably much more to determine
juristiction
etc.

all for 6k$ ?

his best bet is the that the dealer chooses to negotiate
it will cost more to litigate, and the only winners will be the lawyers
I don't think you understand. The only party that has the power to "accept" an "offer" is the offeree (i.e., the buyer). Once an offer is made, the only thing the offeror (i.e., dealership) can do is rescind the offer (the rescission has to take place before the offer is accepted).

As for the money, the original poster has already stated that he will pursue this matter on principle alone. I think he already understands that if it goes into litigation, it will cost him something.
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      03-23-2008, 09:34 PM   #337
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Cool Follow this thru!

Hi, First post here ever! Just wanted to wish you luck like
everyone else. Do not give up on this!!! This was their mistake
and they should honor the auction!

PS. I sell BMW's for a living! So I am totally interested in
seeing how this plays out!
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      03-23-2008, 09:37 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viobruin View Post
I don't think you understand. The only party that has the power to "accept" an "offer" is the offeree (i.e., the buyer). Once an offer is made, the only thing the offeror (i.e., dealership) can do is rescind the offer (the rescission has to take place before the offer is accepted).

As for the money, the original poster has already stated that he will pursue this matter on principle alone. I think he already understands that if it goes into litigation, it will cost him something.
and I'm saying it will take a court to determine if any of that happened...you and I don't matter....
did a contract exist?
what are the damages?
was there a 'mistake'?

I'm sure the car dealer has lawyers too, that will see and defend the other position with vigor...

it would be in the best interest of both parties to negotiate...
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      03-23-2008, 09:37 PM   #339
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then whats the whole point of buying things off ebay if sellers arent going to honor the sale.

a sale is a sale, its an agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
ebay states they are NOT an auction, not in the legal sense...

most states require a license to auction... http://www.dos.state.pa.us/bpoa/cwp/...=1104&q=432477

in fact PA is making ebay consignment sellers obtain a license...takes 1 year and some training
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      03-23-2008, 09:38 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Poor guy. He's probably getting all sorts of horrible, threatening e-mails from people who have picked up on this viral story. Come tomorrow he won’t even have a job anymore. I had a great Easter, did you?

Just reading through the endless and tasteless hate-posts today is making my stomach turn. It's amazing at how mean and primitive some people can be when they are hiding behind a keyboard. It really shows how humans haven’t evolved much since the invention of fire. Its disgusting this is happening over an M3.

I made the terrible mistake of not knowing eBay’s rules completely and look at how I was treated. I love this Web site and feel good about participating in debates… but I never realized at how down-right cruel some of you are. And poor Moose for having an independent opinion… He seems to be an extremely intelligent and one much grounded human being… but he’s being crucified on this wonderful Easter Sunday afternoon!

The power of the Internet sure is a good thing, huh! And the power of Karma.
you and I butt heads, but this time
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      03-23-2008, 09:38 PM   #341
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All legalities aside, we're talking about an auction that came in roughly 3000 dollars under invoice. They will surely suffer way more than that in lost time and customers.

Really, the whole customer service side of business isn't that difficult to understand.
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      03-23-2008, 09:39 PM   #342
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subscribe, +1 good luck
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      03-23-2008, 09:40 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
and I'm saying it will take a court to determine if any of that happened...you and I don't matter....
did a contract exist?
what are the damages?
was there a 'mistake'?

I'm sure the car dealer has lawyers too, that will see and defend the other position with vigor...

it would be in the best interest of both parties to negotiate...
what is there to negotiate for??? that was already established at the end of the auction.
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      03-23-2008, 09:41 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na335i View Post
then whats the whole point of buying things off ebay if sellers arent going to honor the sale.

a sale is a sale, its an agreement.
you would think, but that's not the case...

that's why we have courts...

99.99 or higher of ebay sales go smoothly...but every once in a while you have a dispute...life goes on...

I feel the dealer made a mistake, and was not trying to 'swindle' anyone...
he could have easily put a reserve at BIN...but he made a mistake, imo...
but our opinions don't matter, the judges does...
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      03-23-2008, 09:41 PM   #345
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Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prova275 View Post
Hi Dooma, Have been following this since seeing it on Autoblog earlier, very interesting. I'm coming at this a little differently than most of the other posters...... I'm a new car dealer. And I totally agree with you, it's your car. As long as you can stroke the check and live up to your side of 'the bargain', then the dealer must as well. Forget the arguments over the technicalities of eBay and all the various legalities: a deal's a deal.

The only advice I can give from decades of dealership experience would be the following:

Dooma, stick to your guns but take the high road. Be respectful, don't harrass or belittle. Assume they're going to sell it to you and start pushing them for delivery. Dealers (or most of them, anyway) are human and we're all more likely to work with the customer who works with us rather than one threatening us.

Fil, this guy has you right by the nuts. Take the hit, sell him the unit and get on with it. You're not losing much, if anything at all and the amount of negative NATIONAL publicity this has spawned is going to take you years and a fortune to overcome. I don't need to tell you about the importance of Customer Satisfaction Indexes, etc. The economic impact is far greater than you imagine at this point. Your factory guys are going to be pissed, your dealer principal is going to take a look at the big picture and be pissed, and your customer base..... well, you get the idea.

To the salesman who ran the eBay 'auction' for the store, ask for a transfer out to the wash bay. You made a run at this guy, and that's wrong. The new car business in general has evolved beyond these type of practices, and people of your ilk are not needed nor wanted.

and Mooseman, your argument is well presented, but I do wonder where you're coming from. I've had dozens of salemen work for me over the years and I'm just betting that you've put in your share of showroom hours. Make sure to hit Fil up for lunch tomorrow.

Good luck in all of this.
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      03-23-2008, 09:42 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na335i View Post
what is there to negotiate for??? that was already established at the end of the auction.
really?

then why won't they send him the car?

I guess it's not established or agreed upon by both parties...
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      03-23-2008, 09:43 PM   #347
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WoW!! google "m3 auction" and check out the hits on this story!

Negative publicity in action.
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      03-23-2008, 09:44 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
but he’s being crucified on this wonderful Easter Sunday afternoon!
It wouldn't be the first crucifiction on/about Easter.

I have to ask, pun intended or not intended?
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      03-23-2008, 09:44 PM   #349
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Here's some support from Singapore! Go get the stealer.

Last edited by CoolAir; 03-23-2008 at 09:53 PM. Reason: Subscribing
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      03-23-2008, 09:45 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na335i View Post
what is there to negotiate for??? that was already established at the end of the auction.
+1... exactly
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      03-23-2008, 09:46 PM   #351
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dont you think that the dealer should be more responsible and honor the sale??? even though they made a mistake...this whole transaction has been handled unprofessionally by the dealership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
you would think, but that's not the case...

that's why we have courts...

99.99 or higher of ebay sales go smoothly...but every once in a while you have a dispute...life goes on...

I feel the delaer made a mistake, and was not trying to 'swindle' anyone...
he could have easily put a reserve an BIN...but he made a mistake, imo...
but our opinions don't matter, the judges does...
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      03-23-2008, 09:47 PM   #352
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...almost...

again, anyone remember what happened on 3-6-07?
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