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      03-23-2008, 08:41 PM   #309
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Hi dooma350
Just reged to show my support
Came over from e46fanatics

All the best and i hope you get your m3
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      03-23-2008, 08:42 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
there have been 10's of 1000's of cases of buyers and/or sellers backing out of ebay deals in the US...

but not one has been in court, little own adjudicated in favor of the plaintiff....

a contract must be signed...and counter signed...and usually notorized....
electronic signatures have not been court tested...
there's multiple reasons they have you sign a credit card:
1 ID
2 agreement to their terms...
I think you mean, "let alone".
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      03-23-2008, 08:43 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enlightenment View Post
I believe user identity is verified through the process of setting up a paypal account.
there is no way for them to know who is setting up the account...
could be stolen data...
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      03-23-2008, 08:45 PM   #312
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Just want to subscribe to this thread, waiting for further story.
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      03-23-2008, 08:46 PM   #313
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I just read the whole thread and it appears to be that the dealer was toying around the price to see if anyone "bites."
Unfortunately, they fell into a hole.
I hope you get your M3 as soon as possible.
I am glad that they got bent over for something as stupid as this. hahaha
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      03-23-2008, 08:48 PM   #314
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Please allow me to fan the flames. I recently bought a 2008 M5 at the Lincoln dealership and I won't bore you with the details but they tried to screw me out of $2500. They sold the M5 for $3000 under MSRP but tried to end run BMWNA and charge me for excessive damage and additional lease payments not due on the 745 I was returning (leased).Fortunately I kept documentation of our prebuild/prepurchase agreement and lease termination details which limited my haggling with their finance department to roughly 4 months. I felt like I needed a shower after I left their dealership. I filed a complaint with the BBB after finally clearing the matter.
I agree with previous comments about the sleaze factor and integrity of their employees. They do in fact have considerable turnover in their sales department as well as their floor manager. They have changed every 6-8 months over the last 4 years. I'm not surprised at all by their reaction and comments to their ebay scam.
Unfortunately in Nebraska there are only 2 BMW dealerships and the second in Omaha is ten times worse than Lincoln. I vowed never to set foot in the Omaha dealership (2 miles away)as long as I live due to previous attempts to purchase a vehicle with shadier dealings. Both dealerships get away with this activity because they are the only BMW dealerships in the state.
I personally know the second in command at the Omaha dealership and they would love to have an opportunity to throw dirt on their biggest competitor. I will bait the hook and see what happens. I also will try a contact at the Omaha World Herald to generate more pressure.
Good luck!
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      03-23-2008, 08:50 PM   #315
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This was linked to vwvortex.com and the car lounge which is connected with numerous car sites. I clicked on it just for fun and discovered this was in lincoln, as I kept reading I found out more and more. Now, I know exactly where this dealership is, in fact I've been to it. But I've never talked to anyone or know anything specific about them. Us Nebraskans are good people, I suggest keep doing what your doing, I'll look in the paper and watch the news to see if anyone picks up the story. Infact I'll go look to see the car myself if i can. I hope you get this sorted out. Best of luck.
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      03-23-2008, 08:52 PM   #316
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Its clear the Dealer is in the wrong.

First off, before you submit your auction it clearly states to look over your auction before submitting.

Second, they clearly were changing the "buy it now" price during the auction, so they could have caught their "so-called" mistake then. But I personally don't think it was a mistake.

Third, EbayMotors is a lot different that Ebay. Their autions are legally binding.
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      03-23-2008, 08:59 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
there has been 10's of 1000's of cases of buyers and/or sellers backing out of ebay deals in the US...

but not one has been in court, little own adjudicated in favor of the plaintiff....

a contract must be signed...and counter signed...and usually notorized....

electronic signatures have not been court tested...
there's multiple reasons they have you sign a credit card:
1 ID
2 agreement to their terms...
i was linked to this thread on another forum and only signed up to post this, i'll probably never come back.

no. dont hand out legal advice or any opinion on anything legal when you OBVIOUSLY have no clue.

the definition of contract is, an agreement between 2 parties. a contractual paper is simply a contract that was written down.

in california at least, and you can look this up by googling "statue of frauds", a phrase im sure youve never heard, contracts need only be signed when the item to be transfered is over $100,000 or real property. which means oral contracts are totally legal and legally binding. this says nothing of provability, OBVIOUSLY if you have signed and notarized offers and counteroffers you will have a good simple time proving your case to a judge, but in the case of a $60,000 car signed notarized contracts are not necessity.

and onto your nonsense about credit card signatures. 1. very obviously a cc can be used even though it isnt signed and youre not going to get out of anything because you never signed it. 2. credit card receipts are signed so the merchant has proof that YOU were the one using your card. if your card is stolen and someone runs up the bill who pays you back? not the cc company or the bank, the merchant just doesnt get paid because THEY didnt follow procedure for checking the buyer's ID, OR you get caught because the signature on the receipt the merchant kept is the same signature the cc company or bank has on file
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      03-23-2008, 08:59 PM   #318
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This has almost 200 votes on digg, and one of the comments lists the dealerships phone #'s. If this hits the front page of digg, it could get ugly (in a kinda fun to watch way)

http://digg.com/autos/Dealer_auction...n_t_honor_deal
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      03-23-2008, 08:59 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Its clear the Dealer is in the wrong.

First off, before you submit your auction it clearly states to look over your auction before submitting.

Second, they clearly were changing the "buy it now" price during the auction, so they could have caught their "so-called" mistake then. But I personally don't think it was a mistake.

Third, EbayMotors is a lot different that Ebay. Their autions are legally binding.
you have to prove it was not a mistake...very difficult to prove...

2 cars were recently in the news:
elvis's MB
dukes of hazzard

both were bid on with huge numbers...
both buyers backed out...it happens all the time...
because there is no contract...
you can never prove who did what...
a suit was file re: the elvis car, and is going no where...the filer knows this and has requested a token payment to withdraw...the purchaser refuses saying it was a mistake...

the dukes car, only negative feedback...no lawsuit

this is a non-starter, especially for $6k, the above cars were 10,000's of $...

I hope they make the OP a deal, it sounds like they are trying to, it's his only chance...
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      03-23-2008, 09:00 PM   #320
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You are forgetting your best avenue of help

BMWNA

Call customer service and explain the details, you will be incredibly surprised how fast things will be resolved and how fast the dealers attitude will change.
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      03-23-2008, 09:03 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomeness View Post
i was linked to this thread on another forum and only signed up to post this, i'll probably never come back.

no. dont hand out legal advice or any opinion on anything legal when you OBVIOUSLY have no clue.

the definition of contract is, an agreement between 2 parties. a contractual paper is simply a contract that was written down.

in california at least, and you can look this up by googling "statue of frauds", a phrase im sure youve never heard, contracts need only be signed when the item to be transfered is over $100,000 or real property. which means oral contracts are totally legal and legally binding. this says nothing of provability, OBVIOUSLY if you have signed and notarized offers and counteroffers you will have a good simple time proving your case to a judge, but in the case of a $60,000 car signed notarized contracts are not necessity.

and onto your nonsense about credit card signatures. 1. very obviously a cc can be used even though it isnt signed and youre not going to get out of anything because you never signed it. the other signatures go this way. credit card receipts are signed so the merchant has proof that YOU were the one using your card. if your card is stolen and someone runs up the bill who pays you back? not the cc company or the bank, the merchant just doesnt get paid because THEY didnt follor proceedure for checking the buyer's ID, OR you get caught because the signature on the receipt the merchant cept is the same signature the cc company or bank has on file
follor?

funny, when you buy a car in PA you sign, and notorize...

these 2 never spoke...so no 'oral' contract...

the seller never agreed to the deal...in fact just the opposite...

this will not end up in court, not winnable...

especially with advice like yours....
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      03-23-2008, 09:04 PM   #322
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If you get this M3 - This will be one "well-known" M3
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      03-23-2008, 09:04 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilig View Post
You are forgetting your best avenue of help

BMWNA

Call customer service and explain the details, you will be incredibly surprised how fast things will be resolved and how fast the dealers attitude will change.
they will tell you dealers are an independent business...
you're on your own...
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      03-23-2008, 09:05 PM   #324
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Just read your story. The dealer definitely knows the risk they were getting into by posting the bid on ebay, they have no reason not to honor it. There's always risk in business, but you just don't walk away when it doesn't go your way. Go get these a-holes, it's the only way to make them learn. I've had a similar experience, and you're doing what I did by contacting everyone that cares, you're definitely off to a good start.
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      03-23-2008, 09:09 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfive View Post
Please allow me to fan the flames. I recently bought a 2008 M5 at the Lincoln dealership and I won't bore you with the details but they tried to screw me out of $2500. They sold the M5 for $3000 under MSRP but tried to end run BMWNA and charge me for excessive damage and additional lease payments not due on the 745 I was returning (leased).Fortunately I kept documentation of our prebuild/prepurchase agreement and lease termination details which limited my haggling with their finance department to roughly 4 months. I felt like I needed a shower after I left their dealership. I filed a complaint with the BBB after finally clearing the matter.
I agree with previous comments about the sleaze factor and integrity of their employees. They do in fact have considerable turnover in their sales department as well as their floor manager. They have changed every 6-8 months over the last 4 years. I'm not surprised at all by their reaction and comments to their ebay scam.
Unfortunately in Nebraska there are only 2 BMW dealerships and the second in Omaha is ten times worse than Lincoln. I vowed never to set foot in the Omaha dealership (2 miles away)as long as I live due to previous attempts to purchase a vehicle with shadier dealings. Both dealerships get away with this activity because they are the only BMW dealerships in the state.
I personally know the second in command at the Omaha dealership and they would love to have an opportunity to throw dirt on their biggest competitor. I will bait the hook and see what happens. I also will try a contact at the Omaha World Herald to generate more pressure.
Good luck!
Quoting this from the previous page because it's interesting; don't miss it!
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      03-23-2008, 09:09 PM   #326
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Hi dooma350.
I just read this on autoblog.

Best of luck, and I hope you get your M3.
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      03-23-2008, 09:10 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
Look, what did the guy lose? Did they take a deposit and hold it for 6 months before failing to complete the transaction? No, they called immediately and said they couldn't honor the price that it was a mistake.

So, he was out absolutely nothing other than time spent putting together financing. Do I think they oughta offer the guy a discount off of MSRP for wasting his time with financing? Sure. But the expectation that they should eat several thousands of $$$ because they are a big evil car dealer corporation is the stuff of 200 level Sociology majors at San Francisco State.

All I'm asking is that people give other people the benefit of the doubt and treat them how they would want to be treated.

And, I apologize here and now for using words like "spoiled brat." I should have refrained from such ad hominem attacks. It was puerile and I owe the original poster a big apology. I'm sorry.
He lost the opportunity to get a great deal on a car. It is important to keep in mind that he did nothing wrong to get this deal. He played both fairly and by the eBay rules.

Legally speaking, he is most likely entitled to purchase the car at $60k. The reason why I say "most likely" is that "mistake" is a legally valid contract defense. With that being said, the "mistake" cannot be subjective. Rather, it has to be clear to a reasonable person (i.e., the jury) standing in the offeree's shoes (i.e., the buyer) that the offeror's (i.e., the dealership) offer was clearly a mistake at the time the offer was made. The fact that a mistake was made is wholly irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is whether it would've been clear to the buyer at the time the offer was made that the seller made a mistake. The law will not allow a buyer to capitalize on a deal that he or she clearly should have known was too good to be true.

Turning to these facts, can it be said that the buyer should have known that the dealership's initial offer of $60k with no reserve was a mistake? In my humble opinion, no. This dealership has done a ton of eBay transactions and, as such, cannot claim ignorance as to how the auction process works. It should have put a reserve on (and, in all likelihood, knew that it didn't put on a reserve). Also, the dealership toyed with the auction several times while it was still open for bidding. These actions allow one to infer that the dealership was fully aware of the terms of its offer (no reserve) while the bidding was occurring. Further, the dealership set the initial offer price at $60k (not one penny like a lot of sellers do). To me, $60k is a pretty high price and suggests to a potential buyer that the dealership was willing to sell at $60k if it absolutely had to. At the end of the day, the dealership simply took a gamble that didn't work out and is now trying to get out of it. Unfortunately for the dealership, seller's remorse is not a legally cognizable defense to contract formation.
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      03-23-2008, 09:12 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE_PRO View Post
Just read your story. The dealer definitely knows the risk they were getting into by posting the bid on ebay, they have no reason not to honor it. There's always risk in business, but you just don't walk away when it doesn't go your way. Go get these a-holes, it's the only way to make them learn. I've had a similar experience, and you're doing what I did by contacting everyone that cares, you're definitely off to a good start.
the dealer has 6500 reasons not to honor it...

they can just sit back, and let him do all the work...

with the average attention span of 5 minutes this will be forgotten shortly...

hopefully they will step up and negotiate...
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      03-23-2008, 09:15 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
follor?

funny, when you buy a car in PA you sign, and notorize...

these 2 never spoke...so no 'oral' contract...

the seller never agreed to the deal...in fact just the opposite...

this will not end up in court, not winnable...

especially with advice like yours....
The seller never agreed to the deal? The seller is the one who made the offer by putting the item up for bid on eBay. It's not up to the seller to "agree." That power is vested solely within the buyer. The seller, of course, has the power to withdraw his or her offer prior to acceptance, but that never happened here because the auction closed.
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      03-23-2008, 09:19 PM   #330
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I signed up to show my support. I hope you get the car you deserve and I hope this dealership learns a lesson of what happens when they use deceptive tactices in the age of the internet.

edit- Linked over from BFC.com
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