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      03-23-2008, 08:13 PM   #287
BlackJetE90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
this is a bit more complicated than it appears:

the dealers contention is that a human mistake was made by not listing a 'reserve' ~ = to the BIN price....correct?

do we agree upon this?

now, if you go to a bank and a teller gives you too much by 'mistake', or a cash machine is programmed wrong by a human, or by mechanical fault and gives you too much cash, can you keep it? no, they will automatically deduct it from your account...the law allows them to do so...

same goes for a legal bid in construction...
if the bidder contends that he made an human error (math, etc.), and catches it, he has a right to withdraw that bid within a 3 day time frame...without penalty or bond consequences

the system is set-up to allow for honest mistakes, and to not be punished for them...
he did nothing 'wrong', he made a 'mistake'...
if it was willful, it's another matter...

good luck...legally I'm not sure you have a case...but you may be able to 'shame' them into capitulation...
Oh he has a case my friend.

Plus before you submit your auction, it clearly states to look over it before you submit.
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      03-23-2008, 08:13 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyBeemer View Post
I feel like I just read the first and last sentence of a paragraph.

one time i worked at a factory. and that's why i don't chew on pennies anymore
I'm saying that not only do I believe its wrong to charge more than market value, but I also practiced it. Since I was in charge of the bidding, we bid market value, not the amount we could have procured the contract for. Being an immoral businessman in trade for a bigger paycheck wasn't and isn't worth it, IMHO.
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      03-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
I came here after it showed up on Autoblog. I'm not Fil's sock puppet if that is your intimation.

And, be very careful what you say in an e-mail. If you really did get janked around, don't compound it by involving yourself in barratry.

And, again, I'm sorry for my characterization of you earlier. I should not have called you names. I was wrong to do so.
That is sound advice. You [Dooma] should refrain from posting in here unless you have actual updates. Making slanderous comments about the dealership will not help your case. I know you haven't made any comments as such, but be aware that this thread could be used in court if any such threats from you do occur. I'm sure Fil is reading this thread and keeping up to date, so just as a word of advice, you should limit yourself in your communications with the dealership. Just present facts to them in a civil but authoritive manner.
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      03-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #290
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Mooseman, I dont need your advice when it comes to email, thank you. I'll accept your apology though. Its ok to side with the dealer if that is your position. All I ask is that you read the first post in its entirety, and gain some understanding on the ebay auction, and the dealer sales process.
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      03-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodies_from_vent View Post

im going to side on the dealerships side, because a mistake is a mistake and thats that end of story
Yeh...because if you made a mistake in the car buying process they would be _just_ as understanding.
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      03-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Oh he has a case my friend.

Plus before you submit your auction, it clearly states to look over it before you submit.
according to US law the deal is not consumated nor the contract entered into until the SELLER accepts the deal, period...
and even then it's not a 'done deal'

that's why why both parties sign the contract...up to that point it's a negotiation and either party may back out...ebay is not the legal definition of an 'auction'...

between that and the 'mistake' defense, he's got a rough road to hoe...
the dealer will never be forced in court to sell, but he may choose to compromise to avoid the bad PR...
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      03-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C4talyst View Post
This thread's gone viral like a mug...2500 people on M3Post right now...wow!
Most users ever online was 2,525, 03-06-2007 at 01:32 PM.

Currently Active Users: 2276 (414 members and 1862 guests)

...close...almost there...

btw, anyone remember what happened on 3-6-2007? First official pictures?
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      03-23-2008, 08:20 PM   #294
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I am 80% sure the troll resides in Lincoln, but 100% sure he never gets anywhere due to flawed logic.
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      03-23-2008, 08:22 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavNurs View Post
I am 80% sure the troll resides in Lincoln, but 100% sure he never gets anywhere due to flawed logic.
I am nearly 100 percent sure that this "mooseman" character is affiliated with Fil, or the dealership in some way.

He just came out of nowhere.
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      03-23-2008, 08:24 PM   #296
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Good luck Dooma from the E90post side! Shit dealershit scams like these should be shot down!!
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      03-23-2008, 08:30 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
according to US law the deal is not consumated nor the contract entered into until the SELLER accepts the deal, period...
and even then it's not a 'done deal'

that's why why both parties sign the contract...up to that point it's a negotiation and either party may back out...ebay is not the legal definition of an 'auction'...

between that and the 'mistake' defense, he's got a rough road to hoe...
the dealer will never be forced in court to sell, but he may choose to compromise to avoid the bad PR...
You're incorrect. Ebay auctions are legal and binding. Regarding the seller accepting and/or "signing" the contract, the seller effective does just that when they enter into the auction. The seller is, in fact, legally obligated here and the OP has a very strong case.
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      03-23-2008, 08:30 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
I am nearly 100 percent sure that this "mooseman" character is affiliated with Fil, or the dealership in some way.

He just came out of nowhere.
You guys could well be correct.

Still, its worth challenging the posts so that his fallacial arguments don't just go on unchecked. After all, we have no way to prove whether he's a dealerships shil, but even if he is, his arguments are still easily defeatable with some solid reasoning. Anything to keep the thread on track.
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      03-23-2008, 08:30 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodies_from_vent View Post
WOW this is fucking stupid, i mean big Deal the Dealer made a mistake, let it go and get a different Car,

why go threw all this bullshit? just cough up another fucking 6 grand and get a different one.

im going to side on the dealerships side, because a mistake is a mistake and thats that end of story


no ED you dont understand i was away in dallas and they hired a nudest to spam my forum and by the time i got back it was to late

i was always nice to those guys and i just kindly asked them to leave i said, it's just not working out we have to go our differnet ways
Must be nice to live in Compton and be able to throw away 6 grand like that.
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      03-23-2008, 08:32 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samifumi View Post
I am not a licensed attorney in the state of Nebraska, but I am in Texas. The Uniform Commercial Code has been adopted by every state in the United States (but for Louisiana), and this is simply a breach of contract, as most of you guys have noticed. An eBay contract is a legally enforceable contract, and the dealership should have delegated the authority and responsibility to list the M3 to an employee with knowledge and experience setting the terms. Salespeople, even those who do it online, have the vested authority to make sales, and thus the company that owns the dealership will be held responsible for the acts of their agents.

I wish I was in Nebraska. I would do it just for fun. I might even throw in a Deceptive Trade Practice claim, on which there would be treble damages and attorney's fees awarded. Throw in the words "Deceptive Trade" in your next conversation. Nebraska has a Uniform Deceptive Trade Practices Act.

87-302. (a) A person engages in a deceptive trade practice when, in the course of his or her business, vocation, or occupation, he or she:
(9) Advertises goods or services with intent not to sell them as advertised;

With regard to the BBB, they are really just an Alternative Dispute Resolution mechanism. They'll mediate your dispute, but it's not necessarily binding on the dealership. The dealership will only jeopardize their membership with the BBB if it turns in your favor and they do not honor the resolution (I do not know how much that means to them). I would recommend, if you have a mediation, that you go in fully prepared.
Just reposting the best information yet in this thread since it was given very early in the thread.
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      03-23-2008, 08:32 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooma350 View Post
Minor Update: Email response from Fil, GM at dealer.

So I sent an email to the dealer, linking m3post.com and autoblog this afternoon so he could get a feel for how big this has gotten. Coincidentally, this is when the moosman showed up too. My email to Fil:
(Note, nothing has been edited)
Fil,

As I mentioned, many people are outraged at this situation. Autoblog.com, a major automotive site has just now picked this story up.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/23/b...-hon/#comments
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127993

I am absolutely determined to follow-up on this to the end, to get the deal I am entitled to.
I hope we can get this resolved monday.

Fils response?

As repeated...I will converse with our corporate office. It feels like your harassing me. I now have people harassing me also. Easter is a special day for my religious beliefs, please let my family enjoy. Do not email anymore threats. Fil


I have never threatened Fil in anyway, but I think he is perceiving this situation as a threat to him. Granted the Easter thing, I can appreciate but I dont expect him to reply to emails written today. As for people harassing him, well thats beyond my control as I don't know why they are calling Fil. It could be for other transgressions commited by the dealership.That said, please dont threaten Fil at the dealership
With this sort of email, be very careful what is said. It is evident Fil will do anything to get out of this. You didn't threaten Fil in any way and it is inappropriate for Fil to accuse you of a criminal offense; making a threat against someone, which Fil could be prosecuted for making a false testament against you if he says in court or to the police that you "threatened" him.

dooma350, I really suggest you keep logs of everything about this case and if Fil decides to pull anymore of this, be prepared to submit a report to the police. Hopefully it never gets that far, but it's clear that Fil isn't dealing with this in a moral or ethical manner.

Fil had no reason to check his email today, or reply to any email. He is definitely not at work and like he said he should be with his family and not checking his email. He is a big boy and should be able to decide for himself if he is going to check his email or not.

For everyone supporting dooma350, make sure that if you do talk or deal with the dealership about this case, don't make any threats at all. This has to be taken care of in a professional manner or you may end up hindering dooma350's case and making it worse for him.

I'm off to dinner now... everyone have a Happy Easter!

EDIT: dooma350 I hope I didn't come across as mooseman did when talking about the email. Nobody wants to be like mooseman....
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      03-23-2008, 08:33 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
I am nearly 100 percent sure that this "mooseman" character is affiliated with Fil, or the dealership in some way.

He just came out of nowhere.

LOL. I am in no way shape or form affiliated in any way shape or form with the dealership or anyone involved in this case in any way.

I do enjoy "troll" as well. I've been entirely civil. I just disagree on how anyone has been "screwed" here and the knee-jerk reactions and mob mentality.

I've been called every name in the book on here and have responded politely. I even apologized to Dooma for calling him a spoiled brat, which was an unfair hypocritical snap judgement of the same kind I was accusing everyone else of. So, I don't know what else you want, other than 100% lockstep agreement.

Don't worry, this will be my last post for a while, I'm done on the subject. But I'll check back from time to time to see how this issue resolves.
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      03-23-2008, 08:33 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AML View Post
Must be nice to live in Compton and be able to throw away 6 grand like that.
LOL

I def. dont have 6K to throw away.
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      03-23-2008, 08:36 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooma350 View Post
LOL

I def. dont have 6K to throw away.
maybe he's a hustler turned rapstar lol
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      03-23-2008, 08:36 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You're incorrect. Ebay auctions are legal and binding. Regarding the seller accepting and/or "signing" the contract, the seller effective does just that when they enter into the auction. The seller is, in fact, legally obligated here and the OP has a very strong case.
there has been 10's of 1000's of cases of buyers and/or sellers backing out of ebay deals in the US...

but not one has been in court, little own adjudicated in favor of the plaintiff....

a contract must be signed...and counter signed...and usually notorized....
electronic signatures have not been court tested...
there's multiple reasons they have you sign a credit card:
1 ID
2 agreement to their terms...
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      03-23-2008, 08:39 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
there has been 10's of 1000's of cases of buyers and/or sellers backing out of ebay deals in the US...

but not one has been in court, little own adjudicated in favor of the plaintiff....

a contract must be signed...and counter signed...and usually notorized....
electronic signatures have not been court tested...
there's multiple reasons they have you sign a credit card:
1 ID
2 agreement to their terms...
I believe user identity is verified through the process of setting up a paypal account.
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      03-23-2008, 08:41 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
but not one has been in court, little own adjudicated in favor of the plaintiff....
Wait - "little own"? Didn't you mean "let alone"?
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      03-23-2008, 08:41 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AML View Post
Must be nice to live in Compton and be able to throw away 6 grand like that.
LOL, was thinking the same, but didn't want a cap busted in my ass, so I reframed.
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