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      03-18-2008, 07:36 PM   #45
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335i fans should spend their time defending against 135i buyers, they cost less, offer better performance and are going to be more trackworthy than their 335i's. Really, if I wanted a sporty coupe, I get a 135i if I couldn't afford an M3. I think they look great, it's got a heck of lot more character and a 335i.
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      03-18-2008, 09:29 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3 View Post
I definately fall into category 3
Only I own a home,
own a successful company,
single (it's where I like to stay at this point in my life),
still live well within my means, &
travel pretty often,
so why not
Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Can I create a 4th category for argument sake: young professional you started his own company that exploded.
ChrisFastM3, you're probably more like in the Category 4 that e46e92love is reminding me I forgot. I agree - however that Category is less than 1% of the total. So, a toast for the two of you successful young entrepeneurs. Keep it up!
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      03-19-2008, 01:41 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkNg335i View Post
dump ass?
Can someone translate that into the English language please?

Oh, and double posting FTL

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      03-19-2008, 07:49 AM   #48
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Thanks to the OP for the comparison! I think it's quite sad when people come online and start justifying their personal choices and getting het-up over them. Nobody gives a shit whether you can or can't afford an M3, a GTR or a bloody Lamborghini. You make your own choices for your own reasons, be happy with them, but quit trying to stuff them down others' throats!
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      03-19-2008, 08:30 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Understatement is a good thing. I just don't see how a 911 in general can fit that way of thinking.


Best regards, south
OK, that made me grin.

Point made, but what I was trying to highlight was that the manufacturers tend to add mere frippery to the base styling, from my point of view.

Yeah, I know you need to add more air for increased cooling, etc., but those mods are often highlighted.

Perhaps I should also explain that in general I like the Q-ship idea. In fact, I've long held the belief that the perfect car may be a Checker Marathon (in yellow, of course) with a Z06 chassis and powertrain.

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      03-19-2008, 08:34 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Sometimes less is more. However, if you like the 997S, why do you not like the 997C4S? The only difference is the slightly wider hips, whch are maybe 17mm wider (total width).
I do like the C4S. In fact, I like almost everything Porsche currently makes. It's just that I like the C2 (or C2S) better than the rest of the 911s from a styling point of view.

Bruce

Edit: PS - I also like the styling of the new M3. It's just that I prefer the styling of the base coupes.

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 03-19-2008 at 08:58 AM.
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      03-19-2008, 02:33 PM   #51
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The original post is a great write-up. If I could justify the purchase I would get the M3, but I can't and will stick with my tuned 335. I'm just glad that BMW made such a nice twin-turbo engine so I could get some speed in a 3 sereis BMW. My prior was a 323CI with 170hp.

I bet it will be interesting when M3's and 335's pull next to each other at stop lights. Each person will be wondering if the other car is faster. Of course none of us street race ever, right?

Enjoy your M3's, they are awesome beasts!

OP - do you have a Gtech where you could try to confirm your feelings about performance and post the runs?
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      03-19-2008, 05:15 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Speed View Post
As referenced in my title this is a COMPARISON based on my objective opinion.

A few days back a demo M3 pulled into my local dealer's lot. I have a very close friend in sales at this dealership so she called me and we scheduled a test drive.

I currently own a 2008 335i and 2004 E46 M3 - here are the specs on each to give you a frame of reference:

2008 335i
Sports Package (aside from the seats and wheels this includes a slightly stiffer set-up, matched shocks, and a slightly lower ride height)
DINAN re-flash (increases to 384 HP 412 ft/lb torque)
DINAN Exhaust (increase to 390 HP and 418 ft/lb torque)

2004 E46 M3
H & R Coil overs
H & R front & rear sways
DINAN throttle bodies
DINAN exhaust
DINAN 3.91 rear differential (increases to 296 ft/lb torque)
DINAN cold air intake

2008 E92 M3
Bone stock - by now you guys should know all the specs so I am not going to bother listing them

My 335i smokes my E46 M3 in HP and torque especially.

When I fired up the E92 M3 today the first thing you feel and hear is that sick ass V8. I mean it is unreal fellas.

So I pulled out of the lot...drove it around locally for about 15 minutes not really getting on it. I wanted to warm it up to a nominal temperature before putting it to the test.

Here are my immediate observations. The stock suspension hands down beats my sports suspension without question. It is much tighter and there is about 50% less cabin roll with the stock M3 suspension compared to the 335i stock suspension. Neither of these though match my H & R set-up on my E46. That set-up is track tight.

Anyway...the next immediate observation is the throttle response. Of course with the new M3 you feel power delivered even if you breath on the throttle. This is something I absolutely hate with the 335i twin turbos. While BMW did an excellent job of creating almost ZERO turbo spool...the fact remains that it does spool and therefor there is a very slight delay in power delivery. Not the case with the 2008 M3 of course. I loved this.

My 3rd immediate observation is with respects to braking. The 2008 M3 again really beats my 335i handily. However...I will say that I did not think the new M3's breaks were are good as my stock brakes on my E46 M3 which surprised me.

Ok...now to the power and the torque. This is where I was surprised most. In the 2008 M3 because the power delivery is immediate I had the perception of it being quicker...but...it took longer to accelerate to higher speeds than in my tuned 335i. The top of the power band from 2nd through 3rd and into 4th is where you feel every bit of the raw power of the M3 as well as the 335i. Between these gears...I was quicker in my 335i...but...and you have to hear what I am saying here...because the 335i stock suspension is not nearly as tight as the M3 and because the 335i twin turbos are so muffled compared to the throaty roar of the M3's V8 you do not FEEL it is quicker. But I could easily see my speed times were quicker than the M3.

I am not going to go over interior differences because those differences are truly subjective to what someone does or does not like. My comparison is based solely on performance.

So here is the big question. Is it worth it? Again this is a subjective question because perception equates to value. We all have different perceptions and therefore will equate value differently.

But...if I am objective in how I make this decision then there is a simple answer.

My 335i cost with the tuned turbo (DINAN) and the DINAN exhaust is roughly $45K. I still have another $8K I will put into the 335i including additional performance mods and aesthetic mods.

The stock 2008 M3 I tested was $70K. A difference of $25K.

In my opinion for a difference of $25K I want to blow the doors off of my cousin the 335i...but that isn't the case.

But...subjectively...I LOVE THE V8 in the new M3. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that engine...so to me...the price is easily justified.

This is my review for what it is worth. To all of you who are awaiting your arrival of your M3...congratulations. It is one amazing car. I will have to patiently await my turn in line as I have been doing now for the past few months.

SS
I really struggled with the same question. And the Dinan tunes really got me thinking. But, in the end it came down to this for me. The M3 has both the power and unique looks (weather you like them or not) right out of the box. To make the 335 both as quick (in a straight line) and as unique looking your talking about a Dinan tune, Dinan oil cooler, suspension, aero kit or other similar kit, new wheels, new exhaust, and then cost of having some or all of this work done by someone else. In the end the price for either car was very similar and with the M3 I have something truly unique (yes 50K M3's will be in the US eventually but just think about how many E92 328's and 335's there will be in the US in the end)....

Jason
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      03-19-2008, 07:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Can I create a 4th category for argument sake: young professional you started his own company that exploded.
Deal
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      03-19-2008, 07:01 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecatrache View Post
ChrisFastM3, you're probably more like in the Category 4 that e46e92love is reminding me I forgot. I agree - however that Category is less than 1% of the total. So, a toast for the two of you successful young entrepeneurs. Keep it up!
Thanks for the kind words
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      03-19-2008, 10:09 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
Thanks to the OP for the comparison! I think it's quite sad when people come online and start justifying their personal choices and getting het-up over them. Nobody gives a shit whether you can or can't afford an M3, a GTR or a bloody Lamborghini. You make your own choices for your own reasons, be happy with them, but quit trying to stuff them down others' throats!
Well said.

Look, there's a central fact here that no one has commented on yet, and the fact is that if you want the best, you're going to have to pay a lot more money for it. It doesn't matter what we're discussing.

Want a good one-carat diamond for that engagement ring? Maybe two grand. Want an essentially flawless high clarity blue-white diamond? You're going to be into the 5-digit arena.

Want a really good shotgun for, say, shooting skeet? Winchester, Remington and others will fill your needs with extremely good products for $500 to $700. Want the best? Maybe a Purdy? You're looking at anywhere from ten to 50 grand. Or more!

Will a Bic Click be OK to sign that charge slip, or do you need the Mont Blanc folks to help you out?

Want to get wherever you want to go ultra reliably? Hyundai has some really good stuff for really short money. Want a feral exhaust snarl, stupid speed and all the flash of a lightning bolt in your four-wheeled conveyance? Ferrari will be glad to take care of you.

There are essential reasons for this, ranging from cost of materials, cost of labor (you don't get some jamoke who just fell off the turnip truck doing the inlays on your over-and-under 12-gauge), cost of engineering and development talent, actual content of the product, and of course if you're at the top of the market they know you can pay more. It's part of the exclusivity.

Now, I'm not saying the M3 is the best car on the planet, but it is arguably the best of the 3 series. Want a really good 3 series bimmer, and by the way a terrific car? We can get you out the door for around 35 grand. Want the best?

Whoops.

You see the deal, I hope. Myriad product changes with engineering costs spread over fewer units, more expensive materials, blah blah blah.

Is the M3 (or the flawless diamond, the Purdy, the Ferarri or the Mont Blanc) worth the Money? Well duh! You can decide for yourself, but always remember, if you want the best, you aren't going to get it for a few percent more.

Bruce

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 03-19-2008 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Spelling
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      03-20-2008, 12:17 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkNg335i View Post
BMW wanted to compete with the G35 and the IS350 so it slap two turbo on the 330 and called it 335, but it didn't realize that they have created a beast that will threaten the M3 and it's "heritage". They realize that and try to limit the 335 by welding the 08 dif.

You guys talk about the M3 like it's some super car or something. The M3 is the slowest and the cheapest of all the M. A M3 might be something a few years ago but now it's just a overprice 3 series with a "M" badge. With the 335i tuning potential, it is pushing the M3 right out of the 3 series. The M3 can't widen the power gap between itself and the 335 because it will threaten the M5 and M6. Until BMW make the M3 faster than the M5 and M6, it's days is numbered
Turbochargers aside, are you even aware the 330 and 335 don't share the same engine?

Sure, a heavily modified 335i will likely out run a M3 on the street in a straight line, but you are missing the point if you think M3 is only about drag racing. Does the various comparison tests between the C63 AMG and M3 remind you of anything? You don't see BMW Motorsports challenging the ALMS GT2 class in a 335 do you?

The fact is, the M3 is, and will be the pinnacle of 3 series engineering for BMW.
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      03-20-2008, 12:18 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecatrache View Post
ChrisFastM3, you're probably more like in the Category 4 that e46e92love is reminding me I forgot. I agree - however that Category is less than 1% of the total. So, a toast for the two of you successful young entrepeneurs. Keep it up!
awwww.......shucks. Thanks
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      03-20-2008, 01:22 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkNg335i View Post

Don't think you're all that because you daddy bought you a M3 boy. These M3owner think they're high class because they drive a $70k car.
Most of the 335 owner can afford a M3 anytime but we choose not to because it's overrated. $70k is nothing to me kangaroo boy..i rather spend my money on something better like a GT-R.
LOL wtf is a kangaroo boy? hahahaha

do you know the difference between a tranny and a real girl? or do you not care about that too?
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      03-20-2008, 02:47 AM   #59
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I wonder if I should tell this guy I actually paid closer to USD$170,000 for my M3?
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      03-20-2008, 06:33 AM   #60
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      03-20-2008, 06:45 AM   #61
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      03-20-2008, 04:07 PM   #62
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Randy,

Wow, that picture.

It's forums like that this that really make Internet access worth it. If it's raw performance that floats your boat then don't get an M3. Simple. You don't have to go ranting about it on an M3 forum. But, everyone's taste is different. To some of us the M3 is greatest car in the world. No other car can touch it at any price. And don't ever forget: us M3 owner kangaroo boys really are better than everyone else!
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      03-24-2008, 05:06 PM   #63
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UPDATE - Read original post
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      03-24-2008, 05:22 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Speed View Post
UPDATE - Read original post
So you were running while keeping both cars under 5k rpm? The 335 has a redline at 7000 rpm while the M3 is 8400. So, you're using more of the 335's power band. To be fair you should have been shifting it at 4200.

That said what was the point of this test? Do you expect to be street racing lots of guys in M3s who haven't broken them in yet? Why don't you go to a drag strip and run a 1/4 mile in your car? At least we could compare that to the 1/4s that magazines have run in M3s that have been broken in.

I get that people are very excited to compare tuned 335 to M3, but can't we at least wait till the M3 can run to its potential?
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      03-24-2008, 05:29 PM   #65
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      03-24-2008, 09:09 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiman View Post
So you were running while keeping both cars under 5k rpm? The 335 has a redline at 7000 rpm while the M3 is 8400. So, you're using more of the 335's power band. To be fair you should have been shifting it at 4200.

That said what was the point of this test? Do you expect to be street racing lots of guys in M3s who haven't broken them in yet? Why don't you go to a drag strip and run a 1/4 mile in your car? At least we could compare that to the 1/4s that magazines have run in M3s that have been broken in.

I get that people are very excited to compare tuned 335 to M3, but can't we at least wait till the M3 can run to its potential?
I don't street race. Races are for the tracks only. The point was to see which car pulled quicker through 3rd gear. Had we more room we would have taken it through the top of 4th which is where both cars experience max output. We simply did not have the room.

Both cars have similar mileage right around 2K miles.

Some of you need to remember in my original post at the very bottom I state I am waiting my turn to place my order for my 2008 M3. I will be an owner too to add to the stable and I am NOT bashing the new M3.

It is quantitative evidence that the new M3 is not delivering as much punch as I would have hoped considering the price. Again...this is my opinion based on my personal observations. Like I said in my earlier post for the price difference I want more power delivery.

I am not sure I follow what you mean when you say I should have shifted at 4200 RPM. I reach max torque at 4300 RPM and max HP at 5700 RPM with the DINAN re-flash calibration.

SS
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