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      03-12-2008, 09:21 PM   #23
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It's a little early to write off the M3 I think. It's an amazing machine and I can't wait to get one. Cars are getting more refined though, no doubt. The DNA is still there in spades, IMO.
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      03-12-2008, 09:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
<snip>
The car just seemed to be throttled back. The pickup on the car wasn't all that staggering. It did seem to pull strongly down low but it just didn't seem to have all that much oomph when you got going. Clutch also seemed very notchy, probably from newness. Obviously was limited in the rev range as well.
<snip>
Did you try different settings for the throttle response? In "normal" the throttle setting is very soft and makes the car/engine feel reluctant, particularly when you first drive it.
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      03-13-2008, 09:19 AM   #25
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E, remember these posts www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70931? www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52550? I personally like the new M, now that I have spent some time in it. But I sure remember all the rude comments I got.
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      03-13-2008, 09:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artz 330 View Post
Yes, it is missing soul and thats what I said after I drove it. And I def would not spend 70K on it. The suspension is better than the 335i, but no way in hell will this thing keep up with my Z4M in the corners.
feel/soul sounds subjective to me now after reading your review. maybe you are too used to the e46 M3 engine on the M3 and on the Z4M that you are having a hard time seeing what the new M3 has to offer?
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      03-13-2008, 11:16 AM   #27
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I'd prefer a flat torque curve to one with a spike low in the curve to give me a "jolt."

Compare the area under the curves and get back to me.
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      03-13-2008, 11:33 AM   #28
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Without giving a full description of my experience (the reviews of everyone's experience is all beginning to sound the same) my experience in an e92 M3 yesterday was completely different.

Simply but the reviews like "this car doesn't impress me" or "this is not much better than a 335i" just boggle my mind. In some ways I'm glad, because the more people who think this way, the better chance that this vehicle will remain more exclusive than predictions.

General Impressions: The whole car felt more solid than my e92 35i ZSP....even the way my arm resting on the passenger door as we drove out of the dealership and down the street. I asked my CA to drive the car first so I could really concentrate on the nuances of the car and its feel, then I jumped in the driver seat. I never went over 5K rpm and the thing pulled like a beast---> at 5Krpm in fourth I was doing 120+-----SICK. The amount of grip was ridiculous, and yet in the stiffest mode though body role was negligible and there was no floatyness (making up words now) to the car/suspension, it still didn't kick your ass like the e46M3 does. Also, I haven't driven a stick in more than 2 years and it took me no time to get used to the clutch and short throws (or what BMW advertises as short, they aren't THAT short). My grandmother is 84 and she could do a heal to toe shift, throttle blip and perfect shit with this car, its just so effortless. An idiot could drive this car, I should know: I'm an idiot

Thought on the Infamous Steering: there is a slight dead spot in the center of the steering as compared to the e46M3, but so slight you don't really notice, and you still get EXCELLENT feedback from the car so as you know EXACTLY what she is thinking and planning to do. But if you are driving down the road and just ever so slightly move the wheel to the left or right you can feel the dead spot, but you got to look for it, and I don't think the CA had adjusted the steering into sport mode, just throttle response and EDC.

Overall: sick car, can't want to get one next year and I RESPECTFULLY disagree with EPACY and anyone else who isn't impressed with this car/thinks its a great car, unless the sedan is really that much different then the coupe. This is definitely not the e46M3, better in many ways but not quite as "on edge" and "raw" as the e46 M3. I guess for me I have decided to get the e92M3 and in a few years buy a 2006 Comp Pckg e46 M3 to use as a project car. That being said, the e46 M3 is a classic, and she cannot be replaced nor will any future M3 ever eclipse the shadow she casts, despite them being better cars. It is what it is as they say, but the e92 M3 is ONE HELLUV A CAR

Regards,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Wasn't impressed.

Dealer had a JB/FR fully loaded sedan that he said had been pdi'd but still had all the wrappings and crap in the interior. NAV screen worked and all that. M-drive worked too.

The car just seemed to be throttled back. The pickup on the car wasn't all that staggering. It did seem to pull strongly down low but it just didn't seem to have all that much oomph when you got going. Clutch also seemed very notchy, probably from newness. Obviously was limited in the rev range as well.
Part of the impression was no doubt affected by the busy-ass streets around the dealer. The city streets were jammed and the highways didn't have many openings.
I did jab the throttle while coasting and the sound with the windows up was a nice grunt. Engine also sounded boss at a cold startup, as I have previously mentioned elsewhere.

Wanted to give props to the sales manager for letting me take the car out alone with my friend.

I hope this test drive wasn't fully indicative of the behavior of the car.
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Last edited by e46e92love; 03-13-2008 at 11:52 AM.
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      03-13-2008, 11:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
It is because the e46 M3 and Z4M has more connection to the driver. Faster doesn't always mean better. People are "hooked" to speed... and HP... 0 to 60 but forget about the important parts... like feel and soul. My e46 M3 had soul. Best car I'll ever own. My e92 335i Dinan, although crazy faster... is the most bloody boring car I've ever owned. Has absolutely no soul, but is insane fast. You don't feel 0 to 80. Just happens. Really boring.
So why not sell it and buy a used e46m3?
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      03-13-2008, 02:21 PM   #30
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everything that is being said about the e9x M3s was said about the e46 when it came out. I'm sure the same will be said with the next generation. Not that all of this is without merit, though. My e30 feels more connected to me than my e46. I think a lot of this loss of soul has come with the additional weight of each generation. No one would argue that a lighter car has less soul than its heavier counterpart.
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      03-13-2008, 02:24 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
So why not sell it and buy a used e46m3?
At this point there would be no need to sell, he could just walk. My guess is he in not that disappointed yet and will see how it feels next test drive. Right, E?
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      03-13-2008, 02:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keto View Post
I'd prefer a flat torque curve to one with a spike low in the curve to give me a "jolt."

Compare the area under the curves and get back to me.
+1. This is perhaps the key feature of the M3s engine, broad flat torque curve with a peak quite low and low compared to redline. This, just like some similar M-DCT issues, come down to speed vs. the perception of speed. The derivative of acceleration (jerk) is not the same as the level of the acceleration. Nonetheless it is hard to convince yourself that jerk is not equivalent to fast. The exact same thing happened with E36 M3 to E46 M3, way faster but perhaps in some situations it felt slower.

I ain't worried one bit. As SCBMW02 pointed out - the numbers just don't lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artz 330 View Post
no way in hell will this thing keep up with my Z4M in the corners.
The skidpad figures I have seen for the Z4M is .90g. Do you know of higher ones? Have you even seen one as high as the M3? I would absolutely bet on the E9X M3, Coupe or Sedan out cornering the Z4M.
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      03-13-2008, 02:32 PM   #33
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What is the Z4M time around the ring? The ring has plenty of corners...
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      03-13-2008, 02:42 PM   #34
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i just drove a silverstone/extended red interior sedan at Hendrick in Charlotte. Typically tester car features. I spent about a half hour going through backroads and got up to speed on the interstate. It sounds fantastic, shifts crisp although i think throws could be shorter. brakes were outstanding, even tho it only had 113 miles on it and they r prolly not broken in. They also had a red coupe with tan that had EDC that they offered to let me drive. No markups that i could tell and they had openings for june delivery.

I'm still tingling...and sorry no photos, went by straight from the office.
gonna be hard not to go back....must....fight.....urge
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      03-13-2008, 02:53 PM   #35
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Epacy -- I really appreciate your honesty. There has been a lot of buildup about the car, that's for sure.

How much torque does your Max have and at what rpm? You might be used to a stronger punch.

If the E92 M3 is anything like the Z4M Coupe I had and sold, it has to be spanked to be fast, and it's hard to be smooth with it unless you are flogging it. That "edginess" is what made the Z4MC unsuitable for me (I do not drive down the street at 10/10ths)

thanks again for your post....
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      03-13-2008, 03:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by par4bmw View Post
At this point there would be no need to sell, he could just walk. My guess is he in not that disappointed yet and will see how it feels next test drive. Right, E?
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Epacy -- I really appreciate your honesty. There has been a lot of buildup about the car, that's for sure.

How much torque does your Max have and at what rpm? You might be used to a stronger punch.

If the E92 M3 is anything like the Z4M Coupe I had and sold, it has to be spanked to be fast, and it's hard to be smooth with it unless you are flogging it. That "edginess" is what made the Z4MC unsuitable for me (I do not drive down the street at 10/10ths)

thanks again for your post....
No problem. Just passing on what I experienced.

My Max, modded, has about 240hp and 240ft/lbs at the wheel. Stock, the car has 255hp and ft/lbs at the crank. The car only weighs around 3200 lbs as well.
However, as I said, the M3 seemed strong down low.
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      03-13-2008, 04:41 PM   #37
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Ep,

If another test drive does not stir your soul, will you continue with the purchase?
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      03-13-2008, 07:26 PM   #38
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PS

While in Germany we took a lunch break from driving on the F1 track and got to take a ride on the 13 mile "north loop" of the 'ring in the M3 with one of our German instructors. He drove the thing flat out going airborne at both famous sections of the track. The one time I glanced over at the speedo it was about 260K down the straight (160ish mph). These guys have driven hundreds of laps and it was pretty unanimous this was the best M they have driven FWIW.
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      03-13-2008, 07:51 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
sorry to hear you were not throroughly impressed. Could it be built up so much in your mind that reality is less powerful than expectation and anxiety? We have talked about this before. Try a test drive in any car at 5/8th of redline and see how you feel. Then switch to 100% of redline.
Swamp, clear out your PM box. E and I are trying to pm you on this...
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      03-13-2008, 07:57 PM   #40
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Swamp, clear out your PM box. E and I are trying to pm you on this...
Well, about the aluminum trim and the Fox red. Thought you might be interested.
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      03-13-2008, 08:11 PM   #41
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I test drove the e92 M3 today and loved the car, but it does not have the kind of power down low in the rev range I am used to in my V2 enhanced 335. The car does feel very solid and planted, and at 5000 rpms it seems like it is idling. The suspension in its stiffist mode is still quite comfortable, maybe too much so.

The interior is definitely and upgrade from my e46 M3.

I'm a BMWphile and would like one of these cars. Just not sure I want to part with my modded 335.
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      03-13-2008, 08:53 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Swamp, clear out your PM box. E and I are trying to pm you on this...
Sorry guys, been really lazy on this and I hate having to throw so much stuff away. Please resend anything I did not reply to. After making space I have had stuff pop right in but not this time.
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      03-13-2008, 09:05 PM   #43
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Sorry guys, been really lazy on this and I hate having to throw so much stuff away. Please resend anything I did not reply to. After making space I have had stuff pop right in but not this time.
Me too, wish we could get a bigger PM box size.
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      03-13-2008, 09:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Well, about the aluminum trim and the Fox red. Thought you might be interested.
Saw this combo yesterday - I HIGHLY disliked it...the two seemed to really clash IMO.

For me, FR needs CFL or you need to get another color leather.
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