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      03-05-2008, 07:16 PM   #23
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4.1, 4.6, ? who cares?

it's a street car...if you're worried about 'street cred' you're gonna be disappointed with any car...a turbo'ed civic will bust you...

we need to get beyond numbers, it's the total package...
if all you car about is numbers, the M3 is not the car for you
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      03-05-2008, 07:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgunner View Post
I was kind of curious about something else I read in the May Bimmer magazine. It was talking about the new DCT transmission for the M3 and said it would handle 434 lb-ft of torque, far in excess of the 295 lb-ft produced by the M3's V6 engine.

Question is, why put a transmission that can handle 434 lb-ft of torque in a car that only produces 295 lb-ft?

hmmmm... what kind of engine produces alot of torque? This looks like a transmission you might put in a turbo charged car

Everyone has said the M3 will never be turbo charged but with the GT-R things may change. What's stopping BMW from producing an N/A M3 and
introducing (for about 10K more) a M3 TT?
Very good question at it may have something to do with over-engineering (as most cars usually are) and to leave space for the future CLS and those of us that may end up modding the engine, and so on and so forth.
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      03-05-2008, 07:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Railgunner View Post
I was kind of curious about something else I read in the May Bimmer magazine. It was talking about the new DCT transmission for the M3 and said it would handle 434 lb-ft of torque, far in excess of the 295 lb-ft produced by the M3's V6 engine.

Question is, why put a transmission that can handle 434 lb-ft of torque in a car that only produces 295 lb-ft?

hmmmm... what kind of engine produces alot of torque? This looks like a transmission you might put in a turbo charged car

Everyone has said the M3 will never be turbo charged but with the GT-R things may change. What's stopping BMW from producing an N/A M3 and
introducing (for about 10K more) a M3 TT?

transmissions are NOT designed for a specific car, but a power range...
the same tranny was used in the e46 M3 and e39 M5...

BMW does not make trannys, their suppliers do, and are used in many different cars by many different manufacturers
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      03-05-2008, 07:20 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
4.1, 4.6, ? who cares?

it's a street car...if you're worried about 'street cred' you're gonna be disappointed with any car...a turbo'ed civic will bust you...

we need to get beyond numbers, it's the total package...
if all you car about is numbers, the M3 is not the car for you
Precisely, well said!!! See above!!! lol!
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      03-05-2008, 07:21 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
transmissions are NOT designed for a specific car, but a power range...
the same tranny was used in the e46 M3 and e39 M5...

BMW does not make trannys, their suppliers do, and are used in many different cars by many different manufacturers
Yep, second that, Mercedes is in fact one of the few that make their own tranny´s!!
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      03-06-2008, 01:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
The e46 M3, at its time, was truly king of the road. It was the car to have. Now, this e92 M3 is just Knight along with many other Knights on the road. Nothing wrong with that. But the M3 is no longer king of the road and will begin falling way behind the competition in a year or two.
The M3 was never King of The Road. In my eyes it is,,, but the vette, porsche 911, viper and others have always been faster than the M3. What has changed? This retarded looking GTR? There will always be competition, there have to be at least 75 cars faster than the M3- just pick up Forbes where every car is posting sub 3 second times,,, but all seem to be way more expensive to out of reach.

I disagreee with the statement "the M3 ... will begin falling way behind the competition in a year." Who is the competition? Viper? $80k GTR? $120k Porsche 911? $95k M5? $85k z06? All these cars are faster than the just about the most expensive of all- the M6 at $120k. BMW has a niche market, if you are a die hard like me, you will know there is no other car like it in the world.

As far as 0-60 times... CD and RT were not off with 4.1.... far from a typo. I even printed the score sheet,,, and yes, the BMW beat the C63 0-30 but fell behind slightly 30-60. With M-DCT, this AWESOME launch will be improved and the BMW will not be likely to lose that .1 sec lag in the 2nd gear shift made with the manual before you hit 60mph. 4.1 is the time to beat... believe it!!!!!!
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      03-06-2008, 01:32 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
The e46 M3, at its time, was truly king of the road. It was the car to have. Now, this e92 M3 is just Knight along with many other Knights on the road. Nothing wrong with that. But the M3 is no longer king of the road and will begin falling way behind the competition in a year or two.
The M3 was never King of The Road. In my eyes it is,,, but the vette, porsche 911, viper and others have always been faster than the M3. What has changed? This retarded looking GTR? There will always be competition, there have to be at least 75 cars faster than the M3- just pick up Forbes where every car is posting sub 3 second times,,, but all seem to be way more expensive to out of reach.

I disagreee with the statement "the M3 ... will begin falling way behind the competition in a year." Who is the competition? Viper? $80k GTR? $120k Porsche 911? $95k M5? $85k z06? All these cars are faster than the M3 but come with a HUGE price tag. BMW has a niche market, if you are a die hard like me, you will know there is no other car like it in the world.

As far as 0-60 times... the new M3 is a good .5sec faster than the e46. CD and RT were not off with 4.1.... far from a typo. I even printed the score sheet,,, and yes, the BMW beat the C63 0-30 but fell behind slightly 30-60. With M-DCT, this AWESOME launch will be improved and the BMW will not be likely to lose that .1 sec lag in the 2nd gear shift made with the manual before you hit 60mph. 4.1 is the time to beat... believe it!!!!!!

sorry for the rant, needed to give another .02
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      03-06-2008, 02:03 AM   #30
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you really have to look at what these magazines post with a grain of salt. There are too many factors on deciding what is the best sports car (budget, handling, idrive or lack of, comfort, subjectivity to power / handling, etc.). The M3, was never the "king", but it was in my opinion one of those cars designed to draw the purist. From what I've seen with the GTR, there are quite a bit electronics assisting the car to producing the numbers it so achieved. 30 yrs later, we will be driving cars that will produce on average 1000hp with computers driving them for us, but I have a feeling it just won't be as fun to drive as some of the cars in recent past or maybe even now.
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      03-06-2008, 03:42 AM   #31
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We must be bad drivers in Oz.

Wheels Magazine got 5.1

Motor Magazine got 5.0 then 5.3 in the latest issue!
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      03-06-2008, 07:01 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronno111 View Post
The M3 was never King of The Road. In my eyes it is,,, but the vette, porsche 911, viper and others have always been faster than the M3. What has changed? This retarded looking GTR? There will always be competition, there have to be at least 75 cars faster than the M3- just pick up Forbes where every car is posting sub 3 second times,,, but all seem to be way more expensive to out of reach.

I disagreee with the statement "the M3 ... will begin falling way behind the competition in a year." Who is the competition? Viper? $80k GTR? $120k Porsche 911? $95k M5? $85k z06? All these cars are faster than the M3 but come with a HUGE price tag. BMW has a niche market, if you are a die hard like me, you will know there is no other car like it in the world.

As far as 0-60 times... the new M3 is a good .5sec faster than the e46. CD and RT were not off with 4.1.... far from a typo. I even printed the score sheet,,, and yes, the BMW beat the C63 0-30 but fell behind slightly 30-60. With M-DCT, this AWESOME launch will be improved and the BMW will not be likely to lose that .1 sec lag in the 2nd gear shift made with the manual before you hit 60mph. 4.1 is the time to beat... believe it!!!!!!

sorry for the rant, needed to give another .02
None of those cars that you mentioned are M3's competition, neither in price or performance. Basically it's the C63, RS4, IS-F, or even maybe the Vette against the e92 M3. And the M3 is still ahead of any of these cars in terms of reputation.
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      03-06-2008, 10:30 AM   #33
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We must be bad drivers in Oz.

Wheels Magazine got 5.1

Motor Magazine got 5.0 then 5.3 in the latest issue!

Must have been terrible conditions or too much altitude, like Denver or something. Can't possible be that low!!
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      03-06-2008, 01:17 PM   #34
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I honestly believe that under ideal conditions with the M-DCT transmission that someone will squeak a sub 4.0 sec 0-60 out of the new M3. This is based on a variety of performance simulations I have done through software as well as the existing 4.1 sec time. You can read all about these simulation efforts here in the forum.

That being said 30-100 or 0-100 is way more important than 0-60.
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      03-06-2008, 01:27 PM   #35
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I honestly believe that under ideal conditions with the M-DCT transmission that someone will squeak a sub 4.0 sec 0-60 out of the new M3. This is based on a variety of performance simulations I have done through software as well as the existing 4.1 sec time. You can read all about these simulation efforts here in the forum.

That being said 30-100 or 0-100 is way more important than 0-60.
Agreed 100%, 30mph to 100mph and in fact IMO, 100mph to say around 150mph!! I do this ALL the time on the highway to Acapulco and the suburbs and the car behaves FANTASTICALLY!!! I’ve experienced few cars this stable at speed, and I have driven under a number of conditions a Ferrari F430 Spyder, Gallardo Spyder, 997 911 TT, 911 4S, Boxter S, Cayman S, Mercedes AMG’s, Mustang GT and even an 07 ML500, E500, Toyota Sienna, Ford Expedition and the like. This is a hella of a car that all around is hugely competitive that can be put up against the best. I will be test driving an C63 AMG next week and will clearly take my E92 M3 along, will take pics and provide a review!!!
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      03-06-2008, 02:30 PM   #36
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M-DCT transmission that someone will squeak a sub 4.0 sec 0-60

You're dreaming!
Hahahaha!!! I agee!! Not likely!! Maybe down hill at sea level with 10% gas in the tank and a lot of luck!!
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      03-06-2008, 03:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
M-DCT transmission that someone will squeak a sub 4.0 sec 0-60

You're dreaming!
A more effective way to debate is to outline your reasoning for a conclusion rather than to simply make snide comments.

OK we already have a 4.1 sec 0-60 with 6MT. Then lets add the following variables/facts/conditions:
  • M-DCT is effectively good for about +20hp/+20 ft lb torque. See the simulations, this is from both gearing and shift speeds.
  • Get an empty car with few options, no luggage/etc., empty tank, and a light driver
  • Have a nice cool day with high air density
  • Have an warm/optimal surface and MPSC tires
  • Have the launch control feature and the likely the superior version of LC they will get in Europe

It is going to happen. Do you want to place a friendly wager on it?
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      03-06-2008, 04:09 PM   #38
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Without having the technical Knowledge that Swamp can provide, i don't see why it would be impossible for the M3 to achieved a sub 4.0 seconds to 60. If the C63 that is much heavier was able to do it with a regular auto tranny, i think the M3 might be capable of doing it as well. We will soon find out, hopefully.
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      03-06-2008, 04:09 PM   #39
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I agree with Swamp. Bmw says DCT will improve times by at least .2 0-60. C&D and R&T both at 4.1. Sub 4.0 is very likely.
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      03-06-2008, 04:25 PM   #40
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Without having the technical Knowledge that Swamp can provide, i don't see why it would be impossible for the M3 to achieved a sub 4.0 seconds to 60. If the C63 that is much heavier was able to do it with a regular auto tranny, i think the M3 might be capable of doing it as well. We will soon find out, hopefully.
C63, although slightly heavier, has much, much more torque (443 lbs/ft vs. 295) and weighs in at 1,730 kg vs. 1,655 kg. Its also coupled to a GREAT auto 7 speed AMG Speed-shift transmission made internally by Mercedes-AMG that is somewhat similar than the M-DKG. The C63 is faster on straights, 30 to 100, 100 to 150 period. Curbs and general performance, well, that is another story. If anyone can make the E92 M3 faster in any way than the C63 AMG, then more power to you and let us know how that is done.
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      03-06-2008, 04:57 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
C63, although slightly heavier, has much, much more torque (443 lbs/ft vs. 295) and weighs in at 1,730 kg vs. 1,655 kg. Its also coupled to a GREAT auto 7 speed AMG Speed-shift transmission made internally by Mercedes-AMG that is somewhat similar than the M-DKG. The C63 is faster on straights, 30 to 100, 100 to 150 period. Curbs and general performance, well, that is another story. If anyone can make the E92 M3 faster in any way than the C63 AMG, then more power to you and let us know how that is done.
I did'nt guarantee that BMW will do sub 4.0 seconds to 60, i just said it could possibly do it. Base on the fact that it was able to do 4.1 with the 6MT, the DCT should be quicker especially with the launch control. Again, i'm not guaranteeing it will do it, i just think it is possible and it might be able to break the 4.0 second mark.
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      03-06-2008, 05:12 PM   #42
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Still dreaming. Sorry.
Your skills as a presenter and debater and truly stunning and convincing
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      03-08-2008, 01:36 AM   #43
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Drag slicks at the drag strip and launch control - if you can get a 60' like 1.6 seconds, I believe a sub 4.0 can easily be done. It's all about traction though.
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      03-08-2008, 10:03 AM   #44
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Still dreaming. Sorry.
So how 'bout his suggestion for a bet then? Will you take him up on it, or are you all talk?
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