Car Magazine shootout: e92 M3 / GT-R / 911 turbo / R8 (16 page review) - M3 Forum 2011 2010 BMW M3 2009 BMW M3 BMW E90 M3 E92

Jason · 02-29-2008, 03:59 PM

Courtesy of Boshhaab.

Here are hi-res images from the comparison: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122289

Eclipsis · 02-29-2008, 04:29 PM

As I said in the other thread, you have three beautiful Germans and one ugly Nissan. The Nissan looks like something out of an anime magazine or Transformers. I don't care if it's a few seconds quicker around a track than the other cars. I would have to live with it's ugliness day-in and day-out. No thanks.

umcool911ok · 02-29-2008, 04:55 PM

One thing they forgot to say is how much over
MSRP you will pay for the GT-R I know someone
over here in Nashville who paid 92,000$ U.S. for his and thats
the cheapest I have heard of so far, some are paying 100K

neuzpeed · 02-29-2008, 04:58 PM

GTR is sex man!! The rest do look better but I wouldn't go as far as saying its ugly.

hansyes · 02-29-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xcellere

As I said in the other thread, you have three beautiful Germans and one ugly Nissan. The Nissan looks like something out of an anime magazine or Transformers. I don't care if it's a few seconds quicker around a track than the other cars. I would have to live with it's ugliness day-in and day-out. No thanks.

Come on.. Just say "I have such a bias in favour of German cars"

the_stranger · 02-29-2008, 05:07 PM

Whenever I see or read this review, M3 feels like a very slow car. What the hell is this comparison? M3, GTR, R8 and 911 Turbo??? Each of them are from a different segment.

Thanks for posting this. Quite an effort scanning so many pages.

AssassinGT · 02-29-2008, 05:20 PM

Lol its a incredible machine, but I think it was unfair to put the m3 in that grouping honestly. Should of used a z06 instead.

Eclipsis · 02-29-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansyes

Come on.. Just say "I have such a bias in favour of German cars"

Hmmm no I have a bias for good looking cars, regardless of the nationality that makes them.

chitosing · 02-29-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xcellere

As I said in the other thread, you have three beautiful Germans and one ugly Nissan. The Nissan looks like something out of an anime magazine or Transformers. I don't care if it's a few seconds quicker around a track than the other cars. I would have to live with it's ugliness day-in and day-out. No thanks.

CAR mag's test results is more salt poured over your wound, heh?

cheers!

aussiem3 · 02-29-2008, 05:36 PM

If you want want fast cars there are plenty to be bought out there for lot less money than an M3, Porsche or and Audi. But a person buying each of these cars is after something specific while factoring in brand awarness. I don't think it's fair to discuss this.

From a track car perspective what the CAR magazine has done stands up and be counted. But everyday practicality ... it's a waste of time.

The M3 is the best allrounder of the lot ... practical as a daily driver and somewhat of a hoon when you want it to be. That will do for me.

Eclipsis · 02-29-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitosing

CAR mag's test results is more salt poured over your wound, heh?

cheers!

Jesus Christ people, I wasn't hurt by the results in any fashion. I can't stand the GT-R because of how ugly it is. I've felt that way since I first saw it, not because it's faster than the M3.

E82tt6 · 02-29-2008, 05:51 PM

Hmm, a bit suprised that the R8 was faster than the M3 in both a straight line, and around the twisties. Based on earlier test numbers, I would have expected the M3 to have an edge against the R8 in terms of power.

Also interesting to see that the 997TT is significantly faster than the GTR in a straight line. I think they should have run all 4 cars on a dyno, so we could get an answer on where HP for the GTR really is. Some have said 480whp, but if that were the case, it should have stayed ahead of the 997TT in a straight line.

GewoW · 02-29-2008, 06:09 PM

I'm very sorry, but as much as I love the article and it's great and all...it's a little bogus to me. I highly doubt the GTR would beat the Turbo...and yes, I know it did on the ring...that's not my point. My point is that, if any of you saw the video for part of this review, you would see that this idiot test driver, I don't care how good he is, CANNOT drive a porsche correctly. Is this saying I can? No. It's saying that seeing him over-steer when he's trying for a fast lap is idiotic. The Turbo has such immense traction, and if you don't know how to trail-brake, ESPECIALLY with a Porsche, which he obviously didn't, you end up with slow times. If he actually drove the Porsche well, then I'm pretty sure it would have a much better time, if not beat the GTR by a very small margin of <1 sec.

Sorry for the rant guys, I just don't like comparisons based on lack of PORSCHE (not general) driving skills.

E82tt6 · 02-29-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GewoW

I'm very sorry, but as much as I love the article and it's great and all...it's a little bogus to me. I highly doubt the GTR would beat the Turbo...and yes, I know it did on the ring...that's not my point. My point is that, if any of you saw the video for part of this review, you would see that this idiot test driver, I don't care how good he is, CANNOT drive a porsche correctly. Is this saying I can? No. It's saying that seeing him over-steer when he's trying for a fast lap is idiotic. The Turbo has such immense traction, and if you don't know how to trail-brake, ESPECIALLY with a Porsche, which he obviously didn't, you end up with slow times. If he actually drove the Porsche well, then I'm pretty sure it would have a much better time, if not beat the GTR by a very small margin of <1 sec.

Sorry for the rant guys, I just don't like comparisons based on lack of PORSCHE (not general) driving skills.

I agree. If it's the same as that video test, I don't think it's valid.

PS: Also thought it was funny that he drove the R8 off the track.

GewoW · 02-29-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E82tt6

I agree. If it's the same as that video test, I don't think it's valid.

PS: Also thought it was funny that he drove the R8 off the track.

That's another good point, IF it's like the video...if it isn't, well then I have no right to complain, but certainly admire how they willfully would cast doubt on their credibility by including oversteering on a clip...

335audioman · 02-29-2008, 06:32 PM

To be honest...Looks wise, the M3 looks extremely plain compared to the other cars. Not sure if you all agree, but bias aside, the car is not a head turner.

The GTR is actually pretty interesting to look at imo. Not the prettiest design, but definitely an agressive design, especially from the rear. Those huge exhausts help too.

The Audi R8...what can i say? Gorgeous. I love it and always will.

The Porsche? They never dissapoint you. Good looking, fast, and has the prestige to justify its premium. Incredible car.

At 60K, the M3 is a great car, albeit a bit on the plain side. For slightly more, the GTR is a legitimate 997T competitor and you can't argue with that.

GewoW · 02-29-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335audioman

For slightly more, the GTR is a legitimate 997T competitor and you can't argue with that.

This I can agree with 100%, but I disagree with the margin of difference they set it out to have, specifically on the track.

Ced · 02-29-2008, 06:56 PM

BMW it's time to challenge the competition. Where's the LTW? and the DSG? and MO PWR? I guess the buying demographics and price makes the M3 what it is today. There will be more M3 sold, thus more profit for BMW to do more research for more goodies down the line, but I want BMW to give us one raw M3 not for the masses.

I like the GTR. Now, where's the GTR Vs Z06 video. WHich is cheaper?

JEllis · 02-29-2008, 07:04 PM

I have I said it before and I will say it again!!!!!

It says a lot that the M3 was even invited to this party!

Nothing has changed... the 997TT is faster than the M3 just like the 996TT was a hell of a lot faster than the E46 M3. (I mean come on, even the 996S was faster than the E46 M3). The R34 GTR was certainly a better performance car than the E46 M and now the R35 continues that tradition. The GTR is simply in another league.

Is anyone actually surprised?

Was anyone actually expecting the new M3 to make some miraculous leap into the realm of a supercar and start beating Porsche turbos and GTR's???

If that is the case then your expectations have just been wayyyy to high!

Jason

E82tt6 · 02-29-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ced

BMW it's time to challenge the competition. Where's the LTW? and the DSG? and MO PWR? I guess the buying demographics and price makes the M3 what it is today. There will be more M3 sold, thus more profit for BMW to do more research for more goodies down the line, but I want BMW to give us one raw M3 not for the masses.

I like the GTR. Now, where's the GTR Vs Z06 video. WHich is cheaper?

You won't see it soon, because the Z06 will light it up like a candle.

I think the reason the M3 falls behind is because of Mercedes and Audi. The M3, over time, as consistantly gotten softer, and softer, more and more like an AMG instead of an M, and the inverse trend can be seen among Mercedes, as is evidenced by the newest AMG cars.

BMW is used to competing with other Luxury marquees, and because of the compromises they've made, it doesn't hold up as well to more purpose built competition.

In other words, where's the CSL? That'd be a better comparison for those more pure sports cars, than the plain ole E92 M3, which is much softer around the edges than the other cars.

the_stranger · 02-29-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335audioman

To be honest...Looks wise, the M3 looks extremely plain compared to the other cars. Not sure if you all agree, but bias aside, the car is not a head turner.

The GTR is actually pretty interesting to look at imo. Not the prettiest design, but definitely an agressive design, especially from the rear. Those huge exhausts help too.

The Audi R8...what can i say? Gorgeous. I love it and always will.

The Porsche? They never dissapoint you. Good looking, fast, and has the prestige to justify its premium. Incredible car.

At 60K, the M3 is a great car, albeit a bit on the plain side. For slightly more, the GTR is a legitimate 997T competitor and you can't argue with that.

Coming to the looks, I cant disagree with you. it depends on each person's opinion. I think the M3 looks great. But not as good as the R8. I think it definitely looks better than the GTR. Coming to the price, GTR is not slightly more expensive than the M3. It is being marked up a lot. The minimum is 20k. Although, I agree that GTR is a great track car and the R8 looks FABULOUS..

JEllis · 02-29-2008, 07:10 PM

"This is the most fun I will a have all day''

The line really says it all for me. I am not a track junky (Maybe one day) and blasting down the I-5 or I-15 Socal is the closest thing I will come to to any racing. So, I have to honest with myself and say that if the M3 is the most fun to drive then I would rather have that than any mid engined Audi, or super fast Nissan...

Jason

02-29-2008, 03:59 PM	#1
Jason Administrator Drives: 4 wheels on the bus go round.. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: IoT Posts: 7,135 iTrader: (0) View Jason's Garage	Car Magazine shootout: e92 M3 / GT-R / 911 turbo / R8 (16 page review) Courtesy of Boshhaab. Here are hi-res images from the comparison: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122289
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02-29-2008, 04:55 PM	#3
umcool911ok Races aren't won in the straights... Drives: TiAg 330i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,281 iTrader: (1) View umcool911ok's Garage	One thing they forgot to say is how much over MSRP you will pay for the GT-R I know someone over here in Nashville who paid 92,000$ U.S. for his and thats the cheapest I have heard of so far, some are paying 100K __________________ 06 330i 6 speed

02-29-2008, 04:58 PM	#4
neuzpeed Captain Drives: 335i AW Coupe zpp,zsp,ca, nav, Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 696 iTrader: (1)	GTR is sex man!! The rest do look better but I wouldn't go as far as saying its ugly. __________________ AW e92 coupe/saddle brown leather/Strep/19" Iforge Drifts/painted reflectors/oem aero lip

02-29-2008, 05:07 PM	#6
the_stranger Captain Drives: e92 M3 6MT Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lafayette, IN Posts: 851 iTrader: (1)	Whenever I see or read this review, M3 feels like a very slow car. What the hell is this comparison? M3, GTR, R8 and 911 Turbo??? Each of them are from a different segment. Thanks for posting this. Quite an effort scanning so many pages. __________________

02-29-2008, 05:20 PM	#7
AssassinGT ///Andrew Alewine Drives: 2000 323Ci, 2007 335i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Diamond Bar, California Posts: 682 iTrader: (0)	Lol its a incredible machine, but I think it was unfair to put the m3 in that grouping honestly. Should of used a z06 instead. __________________

02-29-2008, 04:29 PM	#2
Eclipsis Colonel Drives: 2010 E63, 2008 E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Beverly Hills/UCLA Posts: 2,192 iTrader: (6)	As I said in the other thread, you have three beautiful Germans and one ugly Nissan. The Nissan looks like something out of an anime magazine or Transformers. I don't care if it's a few seconds quicker around a track than the other cars. I would have to live with it's ugliness day-in and day-out. No thanks.

02-29-2008, 05:36 PM	#10
aussiem3 Second Lieutenant Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Down Under Posts: 232 iTrader: (0)	If you want want fast cars there are plenty to be bought out there for lot less money than an M3, Porsche or and Audi. But a person buying each of these cars is after something specific while factoring in brand awarness. I don't think it's fair to discuss this. From a track car perspective what the CAR magazine has done stands up and be counted. But everyday practicality ... it's a waste of time. The M3 is the best allrounder of the lot ... practical as a daily driver and somewhat of a hoon when you want it to be. That will do for me.

02-29-2008, 05:51 PM	#12
E82tt6 Colonel Drives: '08 Black Saphire Z4 MC Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,549 iTrader: (0)	Hmm, a bit suprised that the R8 was faster than the M3 in both a straight line, and around the twisties. Based on earlier test numbers, I would have expected the M3 to have an edge against the R8 in terms of power. Also interesting to see that the 997TT is significantly faster than the GTR in a straight line. I think they should have run all 4 cars on a dyno, so we could get an answer on where HP for the GTR really is. Some have said 480whp, but if that were the case, it should have stayed ahead of the 997TT in a straight line.

02-29-2008, 06:09 PM	#13
GewoW Yieeeeeeeeeeeeessss Drives: E92 M3 LMB/Black Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 1,883 iTrader: (1) View GewoW's Garage	I'm very sorry, but as much as I love the article and it's great and all...it's a little bogus to me. I highly doubt the GTR would beat the Turbo...and yes, I know it did on the ring...that's not my point. My point is that, if any of you saw the video for part of this review, you would see that this idiot test driver, I don't care how good he is, CANNOT drive a porsche correctly. Is this saying I can? No. It's saying that seeing him over-steer when he's trying for a fast lap is idiotic. The Turbo has such immense traction, and if you don't know how to trail-brake, ESPECIALLY with a Porsche, which he obviously didn't, you end up with slow times. If he actually drove the Porsche well, then I'm pretty sure it would have a much better time, if not beat the GTR by a very small margin of <1 sec. Sorry for the rant guys, I just don't like comparisons based on lack of PORSCHE (not general) driving skills. __________________ 2011 E92 M3 6MT LeMans Blue/Black Novillo/Carbon Black Trim --- MDrive/Exec/EDC/18's

02-29-2008, 06:32 PM	#16
335audioman Lieutenant Drives: 2007 Z4M Coupe Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 471 iTrader: (0)	To be honest...Looks wise, the M3 looks extremely plain compared to the other cars. Not sure if you all agree, but bias aside, the car is not a head turner. The GTR is actually pretty interesting to look at imo. Not the prettiest design, but definitely an agressive design, especially from the rear. Those huge exhausts help too. The Audi R8...what can i say? Gorgeous. I love it and always will. The Porsche? They never dissapoint you. Good looking, fast, and has the prestige to justify its premium. Incredible car. At 60K, the M3 is a great car, albeit a bit on the plain side. For slightly more, the GTR is a legitimate 997T competitor and you can't argue with that.

02-29-2008, 06:56 PM	#18
Ced Private Drives: E36 E46 M3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SouthEast Posts: 74 iTrader: (0)	BMW it's time to challenge the competition. Where's the LTW? and the DSG? and MO PWR? I guess the buying demographics and price makes the M3 what it is today. There will be more M3 sold, thus more profit for BMW to do more research for more goodies down the line, but I want BMW to give us one raw M3 not for the masses. I like the GTR. Now, where's the GTR Vs Z06 video. WHich is cheaper?

02-29-2008, 07:04 PM	#19
JEllis Brigadier General Drives: E36 M3, 997S Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,145 iTrader: (1)	I have I said it before and I will say it again!!!!! It says a lot that the M3 was even invited to this party! Nothing has changed... the 997TT is faster than the M3 just like the 996TT was a hell of a lot faster than the E46 M3. (I mean come on, even the 996S was faster than the E46 M3). The R34 GTR was certainly a better performance car than the E46 M and now the R35 continues that tradition. The GTR is simply in another league. Is anyone actually surprised? Was anyone actually expecting the new M3 to make some miraculous leap into the realm of a supercar and start beating Porsche turbos and GTR's??? If that is the case then your expectations have just been wayyyy to high! Jason __________________

02-29-2008, 07:10 PM	#22
JEllis Brigadier General Drives: E36 M3, 997S Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,145 iTrader: (1)	"This is the most fun I will a have all day'' The line really says it all for me. I am not a track junky (Maybe one day) and blasting down the I-5 or I-15 Socal is the closest thing I will come to to any racing. So, I have to honest with myself and say that if the M3 is the most fun to drive then I would rather have that than any mid engined Audi, or super fast Nissan... Jason __________________