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      02-26-2008, 07:59 PM   #45
its ray den
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You know very little about science. Unfortunately, I don't feel like educating you. Start with quantum mechanics....
lol. really...

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      02-26-2008, 08:07 PM   #46
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Really what?
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      02-26-2008, 08:32 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
I'm not a new Christian. I've been posting in the Christian forums since last summer, and I was saved nearly 15 years ago. So now you can READ MY POSTS.

Dictionary.com defines religion as:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:

So you're telling me that atheism isn't a set of beliefs? You're telling me that an atheist is completely excluded from being considered a person adhering to a particular set of beliefs? Hardly. You keep firing back at me, but do your own research. According to the definition, it is a religion. It's the religion of not believing anything. Argue with the definition if you want, I didn't write it.

And who said that to be a religion you had to get together and talk about it and that you had to play chess with someone to be considered religious? Sorry, but that's stupid. And of course you don't get together to talk about God. Why would you? You don't believe He exists...

You keep saying that the Bible is just this random book. Do your research and find that this little book has survived over 2,000 years, and is to date one of the most historically accurate accounts ever taken. Especially in the New Testament, the scriptures depict accurate accounts that even archaeologists cannot disprove. I'll be happy to cite real concrete evidence to back this up if you'd like. The Bible will withstand whatever you throw at it.



See, that's what you keep thinking! e90im, in all respect, you have YET to give me one piece of CONCRETE evidence that disproves Christianity. You have yet to even give me any evidence at all! All you do is criticize, be incredibly disrespectful, and then get on YOUR high horse, and act like you're the smartest person in the world. If you want to gain any credibility in this thread, start citing evidence. Show me where the Bible has been disproved. Show me your scientific truths that say there is no God. If you're not going to cite evidence, then you have no argument. I cite the Bible just like I would cite a scientific journal. As fact. Where's your evidence? The only thing you've said throughout this entire thread has been your own personal opinion.

You haven't shot down anything except your own credibility.
Where do I beginÖ

1. Religious non believers (atheists) DO NOT believe in purpose of the
Universe, superhuman agency and do NOT have rituals
2. No sects in atheism
3. All the beliefs we have are supported by physical evidence
So, how does all this qualify Atheism as a religion?

You totally misunderstood my chess player analogy. I am not an atheist or a non chess player or anything that I AM NOT. I canít be defined as something Iím NOT. The term atheist is a label that means non-believer in God.

Here is your logic: Atheism is a set of beliefs. Religion is a set of beliefs. Therefore atheism is a religion. It's the religion of not believing anything, yet itís a set of beliefs!!!

DO YOU SEE HOW BIZZARE AND LOGICALLY FALSE THIS IS???

Unfortunately, you and the like lack basic critical thinking skills. Our education system is to blame.

I donít have to disprove Christianity. You have to prove that JC is son of God and that God exist. The burden of proof is on you, since you made the claim in the first place.

By your logic I can claim that I have a red dragon living in my garage and itís you job to disprove it!

EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE, NOT A BOOK AND WISHFULL THINKING!

Bible is a BOOK!!! Books are man made. Unless there is evidence, not hearsay or anecdotal, it cannot be considered as evidence any more that Lord of The Rings or Quran.

Do you ever ask yourself if 1.5 billion (with a B) are crazy? Or Hindu?

Itís interesting that Jesus saved you, yet he lets babies starve every dayÖ.
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      02-26-2008, 11:56 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by E90jason View Post
We can live happy lives without that answer...I think. This is part of what I'm trying to learn. I am religious and I will never use scripture to debate someone who doesn't believe the scripture.

I'm seeking...

Growing up a preacher's kid, it's kinda hard not to hold to what I've been taught and have used as the basis of my life.
Jason,

You are on a right track. Don't let anyone influence you based on authority or guilt. Research on your own and see what makes sense.

Your father could be a great man and still be wrong. It's not black and white.

I suggest you read Carl Sagan. He's one of the most religion-tolerant scientists.

Good luck. Let me know if you have any other questions. I could possibly provide various references for your research.
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      02-27-2008, 12:14 AM   #49
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Is that Wormwood?
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      02-27-2008, 08:55 AM   #50
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really... you have no credibility. all you do is throw scientific buzzwords with no substance behind it. no time to educate me? yeah right. you have all the time in the world to respond to simpler posts but when i come out with a good point you have no time.

i'm waiting for something good. i'm hoping you are actually smart, and not just someone who knows stuff. but with all your rude comments put next to the very few intelligent ones you have, i can't help but take you as a joke.
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      02-27-2008, 09:27 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
really... you have no credibility. all you do is throw scientific buzzwords with no substance behind it. no time to educate me? yeah right. you have all the time in the world to respond to simpler posts but when i come out with a good point you have no time.

i'm waiting for something good. i'm hoping you are actually smart, and not just someone who knows stuff. but with all your rude comments put next to the very few intelligent ones you have, i can't help but take you as a joke.
I never understood why people get offended by a criticism??? I like when someone points out my flaws and even helps me correct them. It is obvious that your science knowledge is fairly limited and e90im was simply nice and direct to you instead of "rude" as you call it. Did you call your professors "rude" when they gave you a C at the test or you got something out of that???

EDIT: Obviously you got nothing from the basic English course since the first thing should have been to start sentences with the caps -- makes it flow better and is actually a rule in most languages, including English... Also, helps with the laziness...
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      02-27-2008, 09:30 AM   #52
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=( i thought this was about an evo
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      02-27-2008, 10:19 AM   #53
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i'm not offended and i dont feel the least bit like i've been criticized for my post. i'm just trying to prompt a real response rather than the short, unsubstantiated post i got from him. he didn't even bother to show me where i'm wrong so how could i be offended?

your post was a waste of a database record...

edit: and your analogy is inaccurate. it's more like a professor giving you a C for a grade and not telling you why.

and if you could explain to me how quantum mechanics is an argument against what i said about absolute truth, i'd appreciate it. otherwise, your knowledge of science is just be as limited as mine.
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      02-27-2008, 12:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
i'm not offended and i dont feel the least bit like i've been criticized for my post. i'm just trying to prompt a real response rather than the short, unsubstantiated post i got from him. he didn't even bother to show me where i'm wrong so how could i be offended?

your post was a waste of a database record...

edit: and your analogy is inaccurate. it's more like a professor giving you a C for a grade and not telling you why.

and if you could explain to me how quantum mechanics is an argument against what i said about absolute truth, i'd appreciate it. otherwise, your knowledge of science is just be as limited as mine.
I am a scientist, therefore, I charge to teach you the basics...
So, PM me your CC#, and I will help you with the QM.

As for the grades -- as I recall, my professor never "explained" to me why I got an A or a B or C...I figured it out on my own. That is the whole point of grading system -- to figure out your mistakes and not to repeat them instead asking what I did wrong...
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      02-27-2008, 12:42 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
i'm not offended and i dont feel the least bit like i've been criticized for my post. i'm just trying to prompt a real response rather than the short, unsubstantiated post i got from him. he didn't even bother to show me where i'm wrong so how could i be offended?

your post was a waste of a database record...

edit: and your analogy is inaccurate. it's more like a professor giving you a C for a grade and not telling you why.

and if you could explain to me how quantum mechanics is an argument against what i said about absolute truth, i'd appreciate it. otherwise, your knowledge of science is just be as limited as mine.
You're asking for exactly the same thing I was. Something to back up his boastful claims. Every post consists of condescending shouting and extreme opinions with no evidence. Even after I specifically asked for it on more than one occasion.

His one arguement is that the bible is a book. Yes. So is a dictionary. So is an encyclopedia. But we take those as fact, too. Why is it so hard to believe that something in a book can actually be true? I won't even bother to cite references in the Bible that affirm its validity, because e90im never reads them, responds to them, or even briefly mentions them.

This whole thread has become nothing but him shouting back calling Christians, and anyone else of faith, stupid, without backing up any claims. This guy would get destroyed in court or in any real intellectual debate- especially at my university.
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      02-27-2008, 01:13 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
You're asking for exactly the same thing I was. Something to back up his boastful claims. Every post consists of condescending shouting and extreme opinions with no evidence. Even after I specifically asked for it on more than one occasion.

His one arguement is that the bible is a book. Yes. So is a dictionary. So is an encyclopedia. But we take those as fact, too. Why is it so hard to believe that something in a book can actually be true? I won't even bother to cite references in the Bible that affirm its validity, because e90im never reads them, responds to them, or even briefly mentions them.

This whole thread has become nothing but him shouting back calling Christians, and anyone else of faith, stupid, without backing up any claims. This guy would get destroyed in court or in any real intellectual debate- especially at my university.
There are plenty of proofs of Evolution and none of God Existence...simple like that.

As for your last comment (in bold) -- once you enter the real world, you will realize how much BS you heard at that "great" University of yours...
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      02-27-2008, 01:37 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
As for the grades -- as I recall, my professor never "explained" to me why I got an A or a B or C...I figured it out on my own. That is the whole point of grading system -- to figure out your mistakes and not to repeat them instead asking what I did wrong...
wow, you must think very highly of yourself to think that you can figure everything out on your own. what if you think you got an unjustified grade? would you still sit there pondering what it could've been that got you your grade or would you ask the source?
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      02-27-2008, 01:52 PM   #58
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wow, you must think very highly of yourself to think that you can figure everything out on your own. what if you think you got an unjustified grade? would you still sit there pondering what it could've been that got you your grade or would you ask the source?
I never said I could figure EVERYTHING out on my own...
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      02-27-2008, 02:09 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
You're asking for exactly the same thing I was. Something to back up his boastful claims. Every post consists of condescending shouting and extreme opinions with no evidence. Even after I specifically asked for it on more than one occasion.

His one arguement is that the bible is a book. Yes. So is a dictionary. So is an encyclopedia. But we take those as fact, too. Why is it so hard to believe that something in a book can actually be true? I won't even bother to cite references in the Bible that affirm its validity, because e90im never reads them, responds to them, or even briefly mentions them.

This whole thread has become nothing but him shouting back calling Christians, and anyone else of faith, stupid, without backing up any claims. This guy would get destroyed in court or in any real intellectual debate- especially at my university.
Encyclopedia vs. bible? You are kidding, right? Bible has no physical evidence behind it. Encyclopedia does.

Science has no evidence? You need to read more man.
Your university? Let me guess, Regent University?

I never called you stupid, and I feel sorry that you feel that way.
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      02-27-2008, 02:52 PM   #60
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I never said I could figure EVERYTHING out on my own...
that is true (just reread it). my bad for being dramatic.

but regardless. why is it so bad that i want this quantum mechanics thing explained to me rather than being told to look it up? this is a debate isn't it? people have their positions and they have to defend it. simply mentioning the name of something isn't a defense.

you made is seem like you knew something about QM too, why don't you explain it to me?

btw i did read up a little bit about QM on wikipedia. seems to me like a science on the nondeterministic properties of atoms. i still don't get e90im's point though.
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      02-27-2008, 03:49 PM   #61
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e90im, will you explain quantum mechanics to us in laymen's terms? I mean, to those of us who have only had casual exposure to the subject.

Please explain in as much detail (in your own words) as it takes regarding what quantum mechanics means to you so that we can understand your point of view. With this exercise you can demonstrate that you understand it well enough yourself to communicate it to others. We might be persuaded.
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      02-27-2008, 07:54 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
really... you have no credibility. all you do is throw scientific buzzwords with no substance behind it. no time to educate me? yeah right. you have all the time in the world to respond to simpler posts but when i come out with a good point you have no time.

i'm waiting for something good. i'm hoping you are actually smart, and not just someone who knows stuff. but with all your rude comments put next to the very few intelligent ones you have, i can't help but take you as a joke.
What buzzwords are you talking about? Be specific, please.

My point about educating you, comes from the fact that all the scientific things I made reference to are available in abundance online. One could, is so desires, do a quick search and find information.
Scientific theories and laws are all based on experiments and predictable results.

When I make a claim that is supported by science, you can very quickly find it online and evaluate evidence behind it. If you find legitimate flaws in them, you can post them, and while youíre at it, send an e-mail to National Academy of Science. They will look it and if you are correct, you will be rewarded.

So, to wrap it up, I am not going to spend my time educating you about every little thing that is taught in science class. Do your homework, and if you have specific questions, Iíll be glad to debate them with you.
But if you say: Gravity is just a theory, I will ignore you. Savvy?
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      02-27-2008, 07:55 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
You're asking for exactly the same thing I was. Something to back up his boastful claims. Every post consists of condescending shouting and extreme opinions with no evidence. Even after I specifically asked for it on more than one occasion.

His one arguement is that the bible is a book. Yes. So is a dictionary. So is an encyclopedia. But we take those as fact, too. Why is it so hard to believe that something in a book can actually be true? I won't even bother to cite references in the Bible that affirm its validity, because e90im never reads them, responds to them, or even briefly mentions them.

This whole thread has become nothing but him shouting back calling Christians, and anyone else of faith, stupid, without backing up any claims. This guy would get destroyed in court or in any real intellectual debate- especially at my university.

What boastful claims? Be specific.
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      02-27-2008, 08:02 PM   #64
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e90im, will you explain quantum mechanics to us in laymen's terms? I mean, to those of us who have only had casual exposure to the subject.

Please explain in as much detail (in your own words) as it takes regarding what quantum mechanics means to you so that we can understand your point of view. With this exercise you can demonstrate that you understand it well enough yourself to communicate it to others. We might be persuaded.
Yeah, right. Iím going to waste my time writing a paper about QM so that you can piss at it. There is a lot of information available, so help yourself.
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      02-27-2008, 08:37 PM   #65
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Yeah, right. Iím going to waste my time writing a paper about QM so that you can piss at it. There is a lot of information available, so help yourself.
Do you think it might just be this way when you argue against faith?

People who have the answer to your challenge may not wish to spend the time to explain it to you when the truth is readily available were you to make an effort to find it. You may find quantum mechanics to be fascinating and perhaps mind boggling revealing something about the nature of the universe. It may give you satisfaction to know something that seems unknowable.

Whether you understand quantum mechanics or not does not indicate whether you can know God, just as whether you have some understanding of God does not mean you will understand quantum mechanics no matter how good the explanation.

You are unwilling to make an attempt to justify the beliefs you espouse, yet you harangue about other's beliefs.

Anger must be the easiest emotion to express.
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      02-27-2008, 08:37 PM   #66
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=( i thought this was about an evo
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