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      02-09-2008, 03:45 PM   #23
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Wow, I didn't realize would cause so much frustration. It's somewhat of a joke in my book (the officer is smiling after all ), but it should point out the fact that there are redundant discussions taking place (and maybe that's fine). The repost comments can serve a useful function however, if the admins "freeze" threads that are reposts ONCE a link to the earlier post in the correct section has been established in the reposted thread so that people can follow that link to the appropiate section/post and continue the discussion there to keep things more focused. Maybe that is idealistic of me to think that is possible, but if that was implemented, it could be useful. For what is worth, it was a great call by the admins to establish the M3 vs ... section. It really helped. Cheers.
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      02-09-2008, 04:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
That is truely a rich mans car. Even if you could afford one you can't drive it so you still end up buying another hot car that you can drive and a daily driver to boot. So, Ferrari's are usually at least three deep.
I kind of agree, but how much does a used 430 cost? And how much does a new Ferrari transmission cost installed? If we look at that ratio, I suspect that the cost of the transmission would not be exactly negligible even to someone who can afford a used 430 unless they simply are loaded to the degree that they don't care, but then why are they buying a used car? Regardless, you might be right in the sense that a 430 buyer, used or new, might not be thinking in those terms and doing that kind of math. I don't know much about miles on a used Ferrari; you most likely know more about that than I do, and you are right in the sense that this might not be a major issue in that sense.
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      02-09-2008, 04:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by CivicCoupe06 View Post
like Clarkson said. Merc and Audi are copies of the M3. Good Copies, but still Copies. the M3 is superior.
Actually, Audi, was the company who developed the first Duel Clutch transmission. Audi has had the Duel Clutch Tranny in developement for about 5-7 years now. That said, the M3s may be superior to them all!

I know this for fact since I attended UTI in AZ 4 yrs ago and the only mention of a revolutionary new duel clutch tranny was coming from Audi and we had full insight of what BMW was doing...the SMG tranny. Just giving Audi their due.
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      02-09-2008, 04:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I kind of agree, but how much does a used 430 cost? And how much does a new Ferrari transmission cost installed? If we look at that ratio, I suspect that the cost of the transmission would not be exactly negligible even to someone who can afford a used 430 unless they simply are loaded to the degree that they don't care, but then why are they buying a used car? Regardless, you might be right in the sense that a 430 buyer, used or new, might not be thinking in those terms and doing that kind of math. I don't know much about miles on a used Ferrari; you most likely know more about that than I do, and you are right in the sense that this might not be a major issue in that sense.
I am not sure how much the F1 option is, but I am fairly certain that it is expensive, as in $8-10K. Used 430 F cars are going for more than MSRP, anywhere from $50-100K. Of course, that may lessen a bit soon because the next generation is just around the corner. I don't know if you realize that you have to own a F car first before you can get on a lengthy list for a new one. For example, my friend had to buy a used 360 for over sticker to get on the list for a 430 (had a 2 year wait) which he is buying for MSRP. If you sell your new F car within a year you have to give the dealer something like 30% of the profit. It's such a scheme.

Many of the buyers finance them with interest only loans because of the appreciation, kind of like the housing market in some areas. Of course, that didn't go so well.

Mileage and accidents will make a value of a F car drop very fast. It doesn't matter how good the repair is, if it's on record it'll depreciate 15-20%.
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      02-09-2008, 04:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
I don't know if you realize that you have to own a F car first before you can get on a lengthy list for a new one. For example, my friend had to buy a used 360 for over sticker to get on the list for a 430 (had a 2 year wait) which he is buying for MSRP. If you sell your new F car within a year you have to give the dealer something like 30% of the profit. It's such a scheme.
I realize you can't just walk into a Ferrari dealer and drive out with a 430, but I didn't realize the demand exceeded supply to the extent you describe given the car has been around for 4 years. I would have thought more in the lines of a 9-12 month wait for a new one. Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

Having said that, on a somewhat tangential note, I bet it would cost considerably more than the $8-10k option price to have a new F1 transmission installed in a 430.
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      02-09-2008, 05:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
If you sell your new F car within a year you have to give the dealer something like 30% of the profit. It's such a scheme.
That sounds incredible to think that you bought the thing and even if you decide to sell it within the first 12 months you have to give the dealer almost a third of the profit you might make.

I know what I would be tell Ferrari. GO F--K YOURSELF, I'M BUYING A LAMBORGHINI INSTEAD.
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      02-09-2008, 06:00 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
That sounds incredible to think that you bought the thing and even if you decide to sell it within the first 12 months you have to give the dealer almost a third of the profit you might make.

I know what I would be tell Ferrari. GO F--K YOURSELF, I'M BUYING A LAMBORGHINI INSTEAD.
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      02-09-2008, 06:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I realize you can't just walk into a Ferrari dealer and drive out with a 430, but I didn't realize the demand exceeded supply to the extent you describe given the car has been around for 4 years. I would have thought more in the lines of a 9-12 month wait for a new one. Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

Having said that, on a somewhat tangential note, I bet it would cost considerably more than the $8-10k option price to have a new F1 transmission installed in a 430.
Oh... installed, definately. I missed that in your post.
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      02-10-2008, 01:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
They're no more useless than redundant posts in the wrong section. If you spent only half the effort (of this discussion) to search before making a repost you wouldn't have to see in your thread.

Besides that these "REPOST and wrong forum posts" somewhat give a learning effect.


Best regards, south
You don't say. Well I certainly hope you and Sir Epacy are getting your "learning effect" from harassing people on the forum, because that is how useful it has all become. Quit acting like self-appointed m3post moderators and get a life.
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      02-10-2008, 02:33 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
You don't say. Well I certainly hope you and Sir Epacy are getting your "learning effect" from harassing people on the forum, because that is how useful it has all become. Quit acting like self-appointed m3post moderators and get a life.
You're the best example of the "learning effect" I was talking of. Since you could be taught not to post in the wrong forum I'm confident it's possible for others, too.

Besides that I'm touched that you're concerned with my life. But do yourself a favor and don't worry so much about other people while losing sight of your own wants.

I'm honestly sorry you never could forgive me for blaming your R8 praise; since then every post of mine may harass you. Here was hope we could get over it.



Best regards, south
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      02-10-2008, 02:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
You're the best example of the "learning effect" I was talking of. Since you could be taught not to post in the wrong forum I'm confident it's possible for others, too.

Besides that I'm touched that you're concerned with my life. But do yourself a favor and don't worry so much about other people while losing sight of your own wants.

I'm honestly sorry you never could forgive me for blaming your R8 praise; since then every post of mine may harass you. Here was hope we could get over it.



Best regards, south
No offense but it would be great if you could stay on topic here and subjugate your desire to deflect and distract.

Regarding the topic of the thread, I'm surprised that MB has lagged so much on a DSG type of transmission. I think the M3 has a tremendous edge over the C63 right now and will still maintain that even when MB drops their new transmission into the C63.

The M-DCT has definitely pushed me into the M3 camp and I can't wait to get one this fall.
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      02-10-2008, 03:19 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
No offense but it would be great if you could stay on topic here and subjugate your desire to deflect and distract.
Cool. Only thing to improve: could be added.

Anyway you're right and I'll do my best to stay on topic at this wrong section repost thread:
I wonder if the torque plays a role here. Is there a DCT transmission ready to go into production which can handle 630NM?


Best regards, south

Last edited by southlight; 02-10-2008 at 03:36 PM. Reason: gblansten was so kind to point out wrong spelling
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      02-10-2008, 03:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Cool. Only thing to improve: could be added.

Anyway you're right and I'll do my best to stay on topic at this wrong section repost thread:
I wonder if the torque plays a roll [sic] here. Is there a DCT transmission ready to go into production which can handle 630NM?


Best regards, south
About the time a DCT is made to handle that level of torque the new CAFE laws will render that a purely academic endeavor.
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      02-10-2008, 06:14 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I wonder if the torque plays a role here. Is there a DCT transmission ready to go into production which can handle 630NM?


Best regards, south
I think you will be seeing one within a year or so.
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      02-11-2008, 05:06 AM   #37
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So is this bloody gearbox single or double clutch system??

FFS, that press report is such a bullshit. Cannot quite understand why Benz resorted to stupid and confusing wording like that.
From what I read, I understand is is a SINGLE clutch system just like SMG. So I thing MB went the wrong way... This system is outdated now and will die soon.
And what is "double clutching" anyway?
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      02-11-2008, 08:22 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8convert View Post
BMW, Mercedes and Audi (and Porsche soon with PDK) are all offering dual clutch transmissions.

Debueing with the M3, SL AMG, and RS5 next year, im sure the days of Manual transmisson are numbered once this transmission filters down to lesser models over the next few years.
filters down to the lesser models ? You can buy a Volkswagen Golf with dual-clutch transmission since more than 2 years.
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      02-11-2008, 10:25 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
filters down to the lesser models ? You can buy a Volkswagen Golf with dual-clutch transmission since more than 2 years.
Actually VW has offered DSG for more than 3years on the Golf and has also just introduced the first dry dual-clutch transmission with 7sp, this model at present is only available with the lower powered models but will filter upward as the system is developed to cope with the torque of the higher powered models. This transmission is meant to be even more efficient and should provide power more power to the diff and economy.

I think this is the system being favoured for the new RS5.
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      02-11-2008, 11:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michal12 View Post
FFS, that press report is such a bullshit. Cannot quite understand why Benz resorted to stupid and confusing wording like that.
From what I read, I understand is is a SINGLE clutch system just like SMG. So I thing MB went the wrong way... This system is outdated now and will die soon.
And what is "double clutching" anyway?
As Best Regards, South alluded I bet MB has issues with the torque of the 6.2 liter V8 so they have foregone offering a true DSG.
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      02-11-2008, 11:36 AM   #41
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When it comes to automatic transmissions few companies have their skills so I reckon if Mercedes has decided to go for a SMG style box they have their reasons, but I would say that they version will be miles better than the SMG3 that BMW have in their M5 and M6.

P.S.
Swamp did you notices that they choose to offer only 4 modes with their version, that means it's already better. (Joke).
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      02-11-2008, 03:52 PM   #42
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mercedes doesnt need to offer a dual clutch setup. theyre running a business, and their target demographic of middle aged white people with alot of money buy the cars for comfort mostly. thats the appeal of the mercedes, is the effortless speed and smoothness. the auto boxes they have accomplish that very well. in a mercedes there isnt any drama and there never will be, which is good or bad depending on your taste.

to guess, i would say this new type of tranny will be on AMG models only, possibly only the high end ones, and cost a pretty penny.
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