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      02-08-2008, 08:50 AM   #133
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wow so sick like those grills!
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      02-08-2008, 11:04 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
So, can you point me to any tuned street engine - any at all - making over 92 ft-lb/L? And of course I should love to see race engines with similar figures also. A dyno graph would be even better.
You give me access to those cars I mentioned and I'll bring you the dynos in a jiffy.

I have no stake in this discussion - don't really care one way or another, since I won't own even a street E92 M3, let alone a race car. And my car is already way past the 92ft-lb/L mark, stock.

Plus, I'm off for a skiing vacation to Austria, so if I'll remember I'll pick the research up when I return.
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      02-08-2008, 11:42 AM   #135
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anyone else notice the fog lights? are they fog lights??

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      02-08-2008, 02:54 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The difficult part is not making the power. The difficult part is making the power and keeping the engine in one piece for 100k miles (or whatever). These cars will see motor teardowns a lot more often than your street car will (which should righly be never, unless you are building a garage queen ).
maybe it's just me but going from 414hp to 485hp for the race version isn't too impressive and let's not forget that's with swapping out engine internals to make it a "P65". if that really is all they could get out of the engine for 'race spec' purposes where rebuilding after every few races is common then it makes me think the street S65 is too high strung (eww, that feels weird to say).

from a brief search it seems like ALMS GT2 class cars have between 450-500hp so maybe there's a lot more power left on the table for this engine but due to class restraints they aren't tapping into it...instead they probably tuned this car more for peak torque.

maybe i'm just used to examples like the Group A E30 M3 with their 2.5L S14 having something like 330hp, or in today's standards the porsche GT3 ALMS (same class as the M3 - GT2) pushing out over 485hp out of a 3.6L engine. the list goes on from there...THOSE are high strung race engines! it just seems like the P65 engine should hold 485hp just fine without regular rebuilds, which is why i am curious as to exactly what is different between this 'race motor' and the street version. the E46 M3 owners were all about having everything on their cars 'CSL-afied', the E93 M3 owners might go after 'GTR-afying' their cars...sans rollcage and other obvious non-practical mods.

Last edited by jworms; 02-08-2008 at 03:28 PM.
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      02-08-2008, 05:08 PM   #137
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Will it be on GT1 or 2? Looks awesome!!
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      02-08-2008, 06:20 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
You give me access to those cars I mentioned and I'll bring you the dynos in a jiffy.
Sorry, all I got is the internet and google. Its a HUGE place though. Really. If cars like to this specification we are discussing are even remotely common-place you will be able to find one. I haven't personally, but I might not be looking hard enough. As I said in my post, I open the challenge up not to just yourself, but anyway that might be reading. Race engine specs are not exactly common but I've found plenty of them still. Tuner specs on the other hand - those are advertised all over.

Quote:
I have no stake in this discussion - don't really care one way or another...
Ditto. Only reason on responded to begin with is I have a rule against letting cocky remarks to my posts go unchecked. I guess if you really never cared to begin with, you'd not have replied and then we wouldn't be having this discussion that neither of us care about.
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      02-08-2008, 07:00 PM   #139
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wow.. sick ride
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      02-08-2008, 09:14 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
They've upgraded the engine, cooling, suspension, brakes, wheels, lowered the weight, etc...I thought an M3 was race ready sans track prep?
Either you are being sarcastic to which my reply is that there is a bit of truth in every sarcasm and this is consistent with you M3 dogging and 335i promotion. If you are being serious then you are being plain idiotic. Like a track ready street car can not be upgraded in a near infinite variety of ways and stages with varying degrees of race-ready.
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      02-09-2008, 12:33 AM   #141
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Don't mean to hijack the thread, but what are all these buttons on the steering wheel for? Very eager to learn about the racing cockpit.

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      02-09-2008, 12:51 AM   #142
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competition is just around the corner http://www.autoblog.com/photos/nissa...ce-car/463730/
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      02-09-2008, 04:05 AM   #143
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      02-09-2008, 09:37 AM   #144
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Like two berries...?

E92 GT2 ALMS Race car


E36 Coupe Monster Bodykit
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      02-09-2008, 10:45 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Either you are being sarcastic to which my reply is that there is a bit of truth in every sarcasm and this is consistent with you M3 dogging and 335i promotion. If you are being serious then you are being plain idiotic. Like a track ready street car can not be upgraded in a near infinite variety of ways and stages with varying degrees of race-ready.
Yes sarcasm, but also yes a bit of truth.
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      02-09-2008, 02:38 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
competition is just around the corner http://www.autoblog.com/photos/nissa...ce-car/463730/
Funny thing about that car - they ditched the force-fed V6 for a 4.5L V8.

Hmm, I guess the first step in making a race-ready 335i would probably be to put the M3 engine in then.
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      02-09-2008, 05:47 PM   #147
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jworms View Post
maybe it's just me but going from 414hp to 485hp for the race version isn't too impressive and let's not forget that's with swapping out engine internals to make it a "P65". if that really is all they could get out of the engine for 'race spec' purposes where rebuilding after every few races is common then it makes me think the street S65 is too high strung (eww, that feels weird to say).
From what you posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jworms View Post
BMW P65 Engine.

Type: Eight cylinder, V-configuration

Capacity: 3999 cc

Bore x stroke: 92 x 75.2 mm/3.62 x 2.96 in.

Max. output: approx. 485 bhp

Max. torque: approx. 368 lb-ft/500 Nm

Cylinder block: Aluminum cylinder block construction with bed plate lower section

Crankshaft: Steel crankshaft

Pistons: Forged skirt pistons

Conrods: High-performance steel

Cylinder head: Aluminum DOHC (Double Over Head
Camshaft); four valves per cylinder

Valve train: Four overhead chain-driven camshafts, valve actuation via rocker arms

Intake system: Eight throttle valves, made of CRP with load-charge optimized ram tubes
This is different than the S65 engines. They have redesigned the engine with LESS electronics & more racing adjustability and teardown. They've actually designed the P65 to resemble more of a pushrod type engine, where as you guessed it, they can pull out more torque than the S65.

Also, might be a dumb question, but is David Letterman who is the other investor with Rahal Letterman Racing?
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      02-09-2008, 09:12 PM   #148
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Awesome and using a similar engine to stock....Nissan cant say that about the GTR GT500 thats using a V8 instead of its V6TT
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      02-09-2008, 10:04 PM   #149
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-

MAJOR sex on wheels!

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Just thinking of something not so witty
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      02-10-2008, 06:06 PM   #150
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Yep sdiver, I see you figured it out - I never once claimed the 335i had a V6 did I.

I'm sure you'll eventually find a way to really zing me good tho. Keep working on it.
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      02-10-2008, 07:44 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtm2005 View Post
Also, might be a dumb question, but is David Letterman who is the other investor with Rahal Letterman Racing?
Yes!
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      02-10-2008, 09:03 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
They've upgraded the engine, cooling, suspension, brakes, wheels, lowered the weight, etc...I thought an M3 was race ready sans track prep?
Then good thing M sport didn't start with a 335i, they'd also have to remove and throw away the engine and drivetrain. The M3 looks to be a good basis for a racecar, if it weren't suitable, much like your car, you wouldn't see them re-entering ALMS.

BMW is there to win, not show.

This is just one thing that's sometimes different from your typical 335i buyer, an keen interest in actual motorsports. I visit E90 post on occasion, I think there's a huge debate regarding halo bulb color and roof spoilers your missing out on. Strange, the suspension and track forum always seems to be quiet in comparison.
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      02-11-2008, 03:21 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
competition is just around the corner http://www.autoblog.com/photos/nissa...ce-car/463730/
That's a semi tube frame car built for the Japanese Super GT500. It shares almost nothing with the production car and is an entirely different animal from the unibody ALMS GT2 M3.
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      02-11-2008, 04:18 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retrodrive View Post
I think a moded 335 can take it
HAHAHA! Of course!
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