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      01-28-2008, 12:49 PM   #1
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Best Motoring Video: GT-R vs Galardo vs 997TT vs 997 GT3 vs NSX

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      01-28-2008, 01:02 PM   #2
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Cool video, but come on....NSX beat the 997TT? Give me a break....

I smell bias.
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      01-28-2008, 01:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90ice View Post
Cool video, but come on....NSX beat the 997TT? Give me a break....

I smell bias.
I can't watch the video yet, but is it an NSX-R?
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      01-28-2008, 01:45 PM   #4
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The NSX is a trackborn car, the 911TT is definitely not. When you put a 2800 MR pound car against a 3500 pound car RR car, a tight track can throw the power advantage out the window.
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      01-28-2008, 02:16 PM   #5
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http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=4585844a79f19
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      01-28-2008, 02:48 PM   #6
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I've found fastestlaps to be quite unreliable. I've seen several reported times where faster times can be found elsewhere. For instance, the best NSX-R time I found for the Nordschleife is 7:56...not 8:09.
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      01-28-2008, 03:08 PM   #7
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while this statement is generally true:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger View Post
When you put a 2800 MR pound car against a 3500 pound car RR car, a tight track can throw the power advantage out the window.

...so is this statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90ice View Post
Cool video, but come on....NSX beat the 997TT? Give me a break....

I smell bias.


...there is no such thing as a Best Motoring video that isn't terribly biased. i'm not saying that the professional drivers that appear on the show regularly aren't some of the best at what they do, but a tremendous amount of bias plays into each and every race on that show.

and while a tight track can throw even a significant power advantage out the window, this race took place at Tsukuba circuit, which may be a short circuit, but it is by no means a tight circuit - at least not in the sense that it would allow an NSX to edge out a 997TT were it a heads-up race between the two. the 997TT fell behind either because he wasn't pushing as hard as everyone else, or he wasn't as good a driver. i mean why would the 997 GT3 pull the 997 Turbo on the straight if all other things were equal? it wouldn't. as much as some aspects of the race can be explained away by physics, it really comes down to bias.

heck, alot of times the impossible seems possible on Best Motoring simply b/c of their positions on the starting grid and the lack of decent passing opportunities on a circuit as small as Tsukuba. that right there is proof of some of the bias you'll encounter while watching that show - the fact that they cram 6 cars onto such a small circuit and only race for 3 to 5 laps lends severe bias to the outcome of the race.


all that being said, i still like to watch Best Motoring videos - they are some of the most entertaining automotive shows on the air (or the internet).
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      01-28-2008, 03:38 PM   #8
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ever thought of the driver being the difference?

Personally, I've out-driven guys in faster cars than me.
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      01-28-2008, 04:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94JZA80 View Post
while this statement is generally true:



...so is this statement:




...there is no such thing as a Best Motoring video that isn't terribly biased. i'm not saying that the professional drivers that appear on the show regularly aren't some of the best at what they do, but a tremendous amount of bias plays into each and every race on that show.

and while a tight track can throw even a significant power advantage out the window, this race took place at Tsukuba circuit, which may be a short circuit, but it is by no means a tight circuit - at least not in the sense that it would allow an NSX to edge out a 997TT were it a heads-up race between the two. the 997TT fell behind either because he wasn't pushing as hard as everyone else, or he wasn't as good a driver. i mean why would the 997 GT3 pull the 997 Turbo on the straight if all other things were equal? it wouldn't. as much as some aspects of the race can be explained away by physics, it really comes down to bias.

heck, alot of times the impossible seems possible on Best Motoring simply b/c of their positions on the starting grid and the lack of decent passing opportunities on a circuit as small as Tsukuba. that right there is proof of some of the bias you'll encounter while watching that show - the fact that they cram 6 cars onto such a small circuit and only race for 3 to 5 laps lends severe bias to the outcome of the race.


all that being said, i still like to watch Best Motoring videos - they are some of the most entertaining automotive shows on the air (or the internet).
+1...!

The 911 turbo was an automatic.......I know that the auto 911 turbo is faster then the manual but camon, that doesnt mean you leave it on 'D'. Did you the see the guy cornering? The rpm was around 3 which is pathetic. The 911 turbo driver really sucked or maybe....the car wasn't performing up to the level.

Anyway, congrats to Gallardo! It was an unexpected winner....!

And thanks OP... find!
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      01-28-2008, 04:47 PM   #10
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As bias as you guys may think it is, all cars really performed to their levels.

The grid positioing is fair, based on standings giving the weaker vehicle higher pole positions. I am kinda surprised to see the Gallardo really outshine the GT-R because by the numbers the GT-R should have been superior. As to the NSX -R - its consistently done those numbers from the past BMI's in lap times and its abilities, nothing was to revealing.This is the first time I've seen weakness out of the GT-R, for once it looked like it wasnt as 'super car' as it seemed to be with its numbers.

oh and, Tskuba is a great circuit, has two straight aways, has hairpins, tight turns, wide turns, I personally think its a very balanced track.
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      01-28-2008, 07:29 PM   #11
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OK, now that I've seen it:

The 911TT was a pig through the corners and on the brakes.

The Gallarado surprised me, it out braked and out accelerated everything on the track. I'm thinking it must have been an SE. Edit: It was. It weighs about 800lbs less than the GT-R, is rated at 50 more HP, and also has AWD. I'm not sure weakness is the right term for the GT-R, lol...at $130K more MSRP... If my 70K makes a Lambo SE owner sweat for several laps of a road race circuit, then as Bush says, "Mission Accomplished!"
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      01-28-2008, 07:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
OK, now that I've seen it:

The 911TT was a pig through the corners and on the brakes.

The Gallarado surprised me, it out braked and out accelerated everything on the track. I'm thinking it must have been an SE. Edit: It was. It weighs about 800lbs less than the GT-R, is rated at 50 more HP, and also has AWD. I'm not sure weakness is the right term for the GT-R, lol...at $130K more MSRP... If my 70K makes a Lambo SE owner sweat for several laps of a road race circuit, then as Bush says, "Mission Accomplished!"
I didnt know it was the SE Model - as one whose driven the Gallardo I can only say man that car is fun to drive, the sound as it snarls up your back rocks. Definitely an intersting race. Are you getting a GT-R???
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      01-29-2008, 09:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron************ View Post
As bias as you guys may think it is, all cars really performed to their levels.

The grid positioing is fair, based on standings giving the weaker vehicle higher pole positions. I am kinda surprised to see the Gallardo really outshine the GT-R because by the numbers the GT-R should have been superior. As to the NSX -R - its consistently done those numbers from the past BMI's in lap times and its abilities, nothing was to revealing.This is the first time I've seen weakness out of the GT-R, for once it looked like it wasnt as 'super car' as it seemed to be with its numbers.

oh and, Tskuba is a great circuit, has two straight aways, has hairpins, tight turns, wide turns, I personally think its a very balanced track.
i didn't say that Tsukuba isn't a well balanced track...i said it is extremely short, and pitting 6 cars against one another on such a small track automatically limits some of those cars' ability to extract every last bit of performance. put these same cars on Suzuka circuit and the outcome would be completely different than what we saw here. Suzuka is every bit as balanced a track as Tsukuba, but it is a much longer circuit. because of this, there are more turns, straights, and passing opportunities per lap. regardless of how balanced a track Tsukuba is, there is no doubt whatsoever that its length (or lack thereof) creates bias in the outcome of races.

now don't think i'm trying to blame the outcome solely on the characteristics of the track itself - clearly driver skill/involvement had quite a bit to do with it as well. you could tell from the get-go that the 997T was not performing as well as it could have in the hands of a more skillful or motivated driver. not only that, but OBI noticed some things that seem to be a dead giveaway of the existence of bias in the race - why would the 997T remain in automatic mode around a circuit and not use tip-tronic? why would the 997T go through turns at only 3000rpm?

and just out of curiosity, how do you figure the GT-R should have outperformed the Gallardo based on numbers? the GT-R is down on power, the Gallardo is down on torque, neither car makes decent torque in the early rpm's, and the GT-R weighs 500+ lbs more than the Gallardo! it makes sense to me that the Gallardo is the quicker car.
*EDIT* i just realized we're talking about the Gallardo SE...still, a standard Gallardo has a 500-lb. weight advantage over the GT-R, and i'm sure it would fair well against it.
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      01-29-2008, 10:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
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the GT3 is still the best car there.
with respect to pure performance, yes.
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      01-29-2008, 11:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron************ View Post
I didnt know it was the SE Model - as one whose driven the Gallardo I can only say man that car is fun to drive, the sound as it snarls up your back rocks. Definitely an intersting race. Are you getting a GT-R???
Depends upon availability at MSRP, full road tests and my own test drive, but that is my plan for late 08 or sometime in 09.
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      01-29-2008, 12:36 PM   #16
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Lol, the Porsche guys whining is priceless!!!
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      02-05-2008, 05:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94JZA80 View Post
i didn't say that Tsukuba isn't a well balanced track...i said it is extremely short, and pitting 6 cars against one another on such a small track automatically limits some of those cars' ability to extract every last bit of performance. put these same cars on Suzuka circuit and the outcome would be completely different than what we saw here. Suzuka is every bit as balanced a track as Tsukuba, but it is a much longer circuit. because of this, there are more turns, straights, and passing opportunities per lap. regardless of how balanced a track Tsukuba is, there is no doubt whatsoever that its length (or lack thereof) creates bias in the outcome of races.

now don't think i'm trying to blame the outcome solely on the characteristics of the track itself - clearly driver skill/involvement had quite a bit to do with it as well. you could tell from the get-go that the 997T was not performing as well as it could have in the hands of a more skillful or motivated driver. not only that, but OBI noticed some things that seem to be a dead giveaway of the existence of bias in the race - why would the 997T remain in automatic mode around a circuit and not use tip-tronic? why would the 997T go through turns at only 3000rpm?

and just out of curiosity, how do you figure the GT-R should have outperformed the Gallardo based on numbers? the GT-R is down on power, the Gallardo is down on torque, neither car makes decent torque in the early rpm's, and the GT-R weighs 500+ lbs more than the Gallardo! it makes sense to me that the Gallardo is the quicker car.
*EDIT* i just realized we're talking about the Gallardo SE...still, a standard Gallardo has a 500-lb. weight advantage over the GT-R, and i'm sure it would fair well against it.
+1....Thanks for noticing too! 911 turbo aint no joke....the 3 rpm issue was just

Totally agree on Gallardo's weight advantage !
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      02-05-2008, 08:51 PM   #18
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I didn't see the video, but in general I find BMI videos to be quite biased. That being said, I still watch them when I have time. While there is a fair degree of showmanship on the show, those guys are good drivers and the videos are entertaining.
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